So I finally got my car tuned at Kennedy's Dynotune the other day and it sure runs a hell of alot better. Im kind of dissapointed at the numbers and would like to hear some input of what I could do to help. Bob is a real good guy and spent more time than he charged me for so Im not bashing him or his skills becuase the car ran horrible when it went in. The car went in with 195hp, 279tq RWHP (Hard starting, Rich as hell and Surging) and after taking away some (up to 30% in some areas) fuel it made 206hp and 283tq. He said my FAST ECU runs the car great suprisingly even tho it doesnt have as many tables to mess with and he mainly uses/installs electromotive ECUs but said that sometimes is a good thing to have less tables after showing me a 2012 camaro stock ecu and how it has 40 some odd fuel tables alone I was shocked and lost. He also used his own AF Sensor and said mine was off by 1 point (Not sure if it really is or if it is because its in a different location). Im sure that is affecting the correction factor and need to get that issue sorted out i before going any further.

Im guessing these cars were rated at the crank because my numbers are lower than stock of 220hp and 290tq and im using a FAST ECU, 305 tpi .030 over, hooker 2055's, 3 inch hollow cat back exhaust, NGK plugs with MSD blaster coil and 6a box, 1.52 rockers, ported intake base and slightly ported plenum and runners, heads are gasket matched to intake, Bosch III's 22lb inj, KN air filter (stock air intake box cut out around filter). Also he mentioned to get the crank #'s to divide the RWHP # by .8. After Doing this i came up with 258hp and 354tq. This is after about 2 hours of him tuning and the car that would barely run when he got it... Im sure a little more fine tuning could get me a few more horses. Also he mentioned when he gave it more than 28 degrees timing there was no more benefit in power so he left it around 28 max in the Base spark table. Im using 91 octane ethanol free gas from delta sonic by the way. I think im going to get a cold air intake soon, the stock one doesnt look too small but ive heard it is a poor design due to the heat it sucks in and I no longer need the maf sensor since the FAST setup is speed density. I highly reccomend Kennedys Dynotune if you live in the western NY area dont hesistate to go there. I left him the car for 5 days so he didnt feel rushed and your car is safe there after seeing how much security he has.

 

sounds good for a 305... using his math dividing the rwhp #'s by .8 would mean i make 475/525 at the flywheel?

 

Horsepower numbers are usually trivial compared to how the car actually runs on the street and quarter mile so take any "low" figures and ignore it. Though those numbers look fine, what rpm were they at? I would consider where those peaks are in the rpm range more important than the actual number itself. And is this a stock cam shaft? If it is a 305 with a stock cam then I'd be happy. Also note that any conversion to get 'crank HP' from RWHP or vise versa is all guessing, and even more trivial. Its fun to give a number but there is no way to find out without actually pulling the engine and dynoing it on a stand. And even then it doesn't matter.

 

I was disapointed with your numbers too till I noticed it's a 305, and no mention of cam. If your running a stock cam, I'd say those are real good numbers!

 

Don't be dissapointed, it runs good now and that is 90% of the battle!

 

What is the fast ecu? Standalone prom or exu upgrade

And stock heads and cam?

Looks like u bored it over so what compression? And i guess it is a 310 now since 30 over

Great numbers for what is stock heads n cams

Sound slike fast ecu is good upgrade

How does it run now from redlight? Pin u back? Pull on new v6s?

 

Get those NGKs out of there and put some AC Delco resistor plugs in it. I would definately ditch the MAF, it is restrictive. What is the base timing at the distributor and is it accounted for by the EFI controller? If it is set stock, it is at 6* and 6+28 = 34 which is about right for a TPI 305.

The newer the vehicle gets the more complex the PCM has become. This is due to the ever more challenging emissions requirements.

Your math looks good on the HP conversion IF IT WERE AUTO. Its probably closer to 15% however with the manual transmission. A 700r4 automatic transmission is closer to 20% and you have less losses than that.

I would say you are around 245 HP and 330 TQ at the flywheel, very repectable for an essentially stock engine.

 

The fast ECU has little to do with any power increase. The tune has alot to do with it but you can tune the stock ECM by burning a different PROM. The beauty of the aftermarket EFI is that you can change the tune at will for any future upgrades without swapping PROMs. The power gains in the engine are from the port work you've done. Now, you are held back by the stock heads and cam. To go much further, you need to go inside the motor and actually build it to produce more power. Bolt ons and external mods are only good for so much. Fortunately, you do have the LB9, 5spd cam, which was a much better cam than the LB9 auto cars got.

 

Sorry forgot to mention it is the stock cam for 5 speed. I just now got a chance to scan the dyno page and cant figure out how to attach it without uploading to a webpage. It almost looks like it ripples at the top rpm range and looks to make peak horse around 4100 rpm which is typical for a tpi i guess. I spent most of today driving it from buffalo to rochester and back for a business trip I had and did a bunch of city driving too. I havent been able to enjoy driving this car in a long time. I dont have the MAF hooked up and plan on cutting up a piece of 3 inch tube to take its place untill I get a new cold air intake. I left the stock harness in the car for now in case this didnt all work out but seems to be a success so far. FAST is an aftermarket ECU that utilizes a wideband oxygen sensor and allows you to connect to a laptop via serial or usb converter and tune. I bought the "classic" ECU from a member on here and was a little skeptikal since FAST has self programming ECU's now and on how it would run, but needed to do something since I always had MAF issues. Maybe now ill get rid of my pocket programmer and adapters. I noticed today when I hit the trunk release my fuel pump now primes and I dont rememer it doing this before and the only thing I can think of is I had to reverse the polarity on the control side of my fuel pump relay due to the stock ecu using a high side driver and the FAST uses a Low side driver to control the pump. I have no idea how the trunk motor could be tied into the fuel pump haha. Yea it doesnt make a ton of power but the torque is there for sure and it pulls a harder than it ever has now. I like being able to go in and change things without burning chips and think im going to do some fine tuning since the o2 is still correcting quite a bit in some areas. I just need to get a wideband and a guage so I can see the AF real time.

 

I am curious why you invested in the FAST Setup to replace your factory stuff.

 

Stock Cam? If so, a proper stick would have given great results with what you have done to youre car. Since you have that ECU, if I was you, and funds allow. ID do a nice aggressive cam and a Procharger. Then have youre buddy tune that thing to 400+ RWHP and 450RWTQ !

Just My opinion of course

 

A few reasons I invested in it is its simple to datalog and tune with and has a wideband o2 and was cheap. I also was having issues with the MAF system and found the FAST setup with a spare dizzy and all the sensors and an extra blaster coil for under 500 shipped. Car had idle and stalling problems since it was new (reciepts from dealership show MAF and ECU replaced 3 times plus I tryed replacing the MAF twice and ECU once and the relays and the connectors and still got the MAF high error) I got rid of the engine light by burning a new prom but the car still lost power and ran the same. After I installed the FAST the car runs beautiful so not sure what was causing my problem but I will never go back now. I know a cam and a procharger would make a big difference but i like this engine the way it is for a 310 other than its 4500 rpm limit before it chokes. I cant complain and it would make a good engine for a truck that I could yank a 350 out of and build up. Im hopin to find a LS3 and 6 speed then Ill put some serious thought into a nice build, I really like the way they run like a cruiser untill you stomp on it.

 

** nice setup and I get your build logic and cost. That setup and next step for me would just cam maybe some head work on stock or if possible new ones and retune and call it a day sounds like a great reliable fun setup.

So the FAST is the FAST XFI setup that is normally $2000-$3000 online. I like the idea of replacing with modern o2 setup instead of dealing with stock. Can not believe they are that much! I can see $400-$600 for DIY prom replacement and few hundred for new sensors and what not. Where you get it for $500

 

The fluttering you get at the high end of the rpm curve is valve float due to the crappy stock heads. The power drop off at 4,100 is not due to the TPI, it is due to the heads, cam and valve float. My long tube TPI, while it is a ported Superram base and large tube TPIS runners, pulls hard to 6,300. TPIS posted dyno results with my ZZX cam(240/240 @ .050 .560/.560 112LSA) on a 350 with ported stock vette heads, ported stock TPI base, plenum and runners that made peak power at 5,950rpm and pulled hard to 6,200. I get a little more on the top end due to my Trick Flow twisted wedge heads and my modified high flow intake.

Don't be too quick to buy into the myth that TPI can't make power above 4,500. While TPI will never be a great high rev intake, it can certainly support power past 6K with the right combination of parts. My advice would be talk to a good speed shop where they do head porting. Get your heads ported and setup with springs to handle .520 lift and 230 degrees at .050. Then install a cam with about 210/220 degrees @.050 and 500 to 510 lift. The springs should have about 135-145 seat pressure and 375-425 open pressure to support 6K. Better yet, invest in a set of aftermarket heads , staying with 58cc chambers and no larger than 2.00 intake valves, and get the ports cleaned up and set up with the right springs for those lift numbers and 6K.

Get serious about porting the stock base or find a used superram or edelbrock high flow base. Your power band will instantly be extended to 6K and you will find alot more average torque from 2,800 - 4,500.

 

ASE I like your post and the myth! I am about to start a new project and for now if the LB( runs without major knock or fuel issues I would leave it alone so I can paint, do interior and enjoy the car for a 2nd toy car. sound and torque is goal.

Since tranny is getting replaced I might do some small $$$ upgrades while under hood at shop. SO port stock heads, cam swap, port work allow more lift closer to .48-.5, port match base, runners, headers, exhaust, I am thinking more fuel so 22#-24# for future and call it day

that way if/when rest of car is done and I am bored of the 305 I can swap in a 355 and keep the cam maybe, and fuel system and exhaust,headers

that would still be cheaper then a lsx swap. and although not lsx Territory still be 400+hp range

I hope for 250-300RWHP range for 305 with mods and looks like with CP it is possible

 

Whoever built youre motor, If knowing it was for a Camaro, they should have upgraded youre camshaft. All the money and work put into rebuilding a motor just to put in the stocker is kinda ridiculous IMO. But you really should take advantage of that ECU you got for a killer price, and do H/C/I like ASE doc reccomended. Wont cost much, common cams can be cheap. TPI parts are everywhere here and on Ebay. Heads would be the money issue. Even a set of 113's or ZZ4's that are warmed over would be nice.

 

Stock tpi maf is not restrictive on a mild motor like that. You didnt even max out the flow measuring capability of the maf yet. Numbers arent bad for stock cam. Would have expected 220's with ported mods and exhaust but not to bad overall. Get a cam and valvesprings to see more power.

And what plugs you running? Nothing wrong with ngk but heat range should be stock. Very surprised it didnt make more power at more than 28 deg timing

 

The cam that works in the 305 will be on the small side for the 350. Every cubic inch the motor grows, the cam it wants, and can tolerate, also grows. On the other hand, the cam that will make the most streetable power from the 305 will run a little smoother in the 350, while making about the same HP and gaining a little torque. All other things being equal, the 350 with all the same intake components and cam will tend to produce peak power and torque a few hundred rpm lower on the rev scale. The 350 does benefit from the larger bore, being able to run larger valves and thus larger intake ports and greater valve lift.

 

ASE thanks yes logic makes sense. just for money and being realistic with goals and budget just be happy with a occasional weekend cruiser V* that wont embarrass itself against a civic or 4dr sedan.

I know the 305 with TPI can get it done if it still runs good.
Cam, mainfold, head work exhaust and more fuel by APFR and tune down the road and I think 250-300RWHp is obtainable and over 300ft-lbs

If engine seems shot then just rebuild/work the top end, larger heads cam and have a basic 355 bottom thrown instead.

 

So your motor is basically stock save for some headers catback and rockers, some base grinding. Youre almost at the stock 350L98#s you are doing pretty good!!! most mods dont give you the power you think they will it all adds up though.

Dynos imo are a good tuning tool and measuring % gain when changing things other than that they are useless for comparing to somenes web # that you or they dont REALLY know how accurate it is. Same with flow numbers some worship them some see them for what they are.

MPH in the 1/4 tells the real story. Have fun.

 

Couldn't have said it better!