84ws689bird

Ok, emissions question time. 1988 5.7, stock, except 6AL and cat back exhaust, within the last 50 miles, I have replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, IAC, Fuel filter, Fuel injectors ( 22lb Bosch III's), O2 sensor, vacuum lines that were faulty, new BBK adjustable fuel pressure regulator, resealed the intake manifold, Thermostat, MAF, and relays, and the ESC., ECM goes to closed loop, Block learn 118 , integraters at 108 or lower, car runs and starts fine, great throttle response, no CEL, no codes. , passes all tests except high HC's, Why is the car running rich? Also, this was the reason for all the new parts, it was this way before and ALL these new parts haven't fixed the problem.. BTW if this could be better in another tech board.. let me know or move it please..

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Leaking 9th injector, ecm ground or ecm. You didnt state the tps what the idle feedback voltage is on the blue wire.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

when i couldnt pass indiana emmisions for the fifth time. i took 3 catalytic converters off 88-98 chevy pickups, welded them in a row, ran cats almost from ypipe to muffler and after i passed drove home and cut them off.
its not correct but it worked. the emmisions blaster 3000(tm)


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Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I never can remember for sure which reading is affected by which when it comes to HC's and CO's. But it sounds like you've already thrown a grundle of new parts at your car! If you haven't checked your ignition timing, do that and set it at 6 degrees initial advance, and don't forget to unplug the EST wire when you're adjusting it. Unfortunately, GM programmed the stock chips in these cars to run on the rich side, and that's made even worse since you're in CO, where the thin air at that altitude can make it even richer. Since you have that BBK regulator on there, turn down your fuel pressure as far as it will go for the testing. Set it back to around 43 psi after the test though. The one part I didn't notice listed on your list of new stuff is a catalytic converter. It's been my experience that a good functioning cat makes the biggest difference in emissions output out of any part on the car. If you have the 3" cat size on there, buy a Catco 9118, direct-fit cat and install that before you retest again. My car has the EGR deleted, the air pump deleted, 24 lb. injectors, and a custom PROM, and all I do is put on that 9118 cat every year for the emissions test and it sails right through. I run a "test pipe" the rest of the year, and I tried getting it through emissions without a functioning cat on there, and it just missed passing. Put the cat on and it went through like a breeze. One other thing that helps on my car is I had the injector constant setting on my custom chip set for "high altitude". Instead of being set right at 24 lbs per hour, they set it at like 25.8 lbs. per hour, which leans out the mixture. I think that helped out a lot too. But with the stock chip, the best thing you can do w/o resetting the injector constant is turning your fuel pressure all the way down. If all these things fail, try running some super-concentrated fuel injector cleaner in there. One last thing, a fresh oil change also cleans up emissions. Another thing I do sometimes is pour a pint-sized bottle of rubbing alcohol in the fuel tank. Popular myth says that a little alcohol in the gas also helps clean up the emissions. Don't know how true that is, but it doesn't hurt to put some in. Just make sure you have at least 1/2 tank of gas for it to mix with.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

+1 why couldnt i get that answer when i asked this 6months ago


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84ws689bird

quick post then off to work.. timimg, Checked, dist gear replaced, newish cat, replaced last year, oil change last monday,

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

high HC doesn't necessarily means its rich, you can have high HC if is running lean too. CO is a much better indicator of rich/lean.
with the BLM numbers you posted, it shows the ECM is pulling fuel which normally means it is rich, but not always.
if you have them, post all the other tail pipe numbers too.

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Did you ever get to pass? I'm in the same boat now. 1991 GTA with new Cats (Got the N10 option) and still no go. Tech said I didn't heat them up good first put the Cats on yesterday. So I'm trying again tomorrow. Mine is high on Nitric Oxide I think its called. Everything else is good.

Marc Maro

Solved my high NOX by reducing the timing in the 1000-2000 RPM range in the main spark table. If you can burn a chip, it's pretty easy to do.

See my post from last week
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...g-3rd-try.html

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the thread highjack but I appreciate your response and need help! Ill follow your link and respond there.

86T/A_Ram_Air

the timing needs to be at 6-7 degrees BTDC to pass. At least thats how it works for me here in NJ. if its 8-10 it won't pass. I just dial back for inspection and dial it back up afterwards. Make sure you disconnect the EST plug before you adjust timing and plug it back in after your done

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Good information to know. My car is due for NJ inspection in April. I'll make sure to dial back the timing to 6 degrees BTDC.

86T/A_Ram_Air

yeah I went a couple years ago with the timing at 10 and the emissions were terrible. dialed it back to stock and it passed with flying colors

Oh and stay away from the Manahawkin inspection station. they reved the hell out of my car and I had a colorful screaming match with the tech and the manager. I also reported them to the state for abusing my car but i doubt they did anything

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Thanks 86T/A_Ram_Air. I'll definitely save this information.

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Just checked my timing and it is at 8 degrees BTC on the money. That was checked with the EST disconnected. It was at 6 but I remembered that car should probably be warm so I waited a few mins and went back and it was at 8. So I am dialing it back to 6 and hopefully this will make a difference.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

you need to state witch your car you are dealing with to help us trouble shoot. The 85-89 tuned port has a egr temp sensor that could thrown the code 32, the 90-92 tpi looks at the egr solenoid operation and resistance of the solenoid with is discontinued and if this is faulty you would need to find a used one or convert to a cadillac solenoid.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

since you just edited you post I guess you don't have a code 32

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Sorry about that a little anxious. Its the 1991 LB9 5 speed. Its not been modded from what I can tell.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Yes I do have a code 32. I felt I should edit because I didn't let car get warm before checking timing. After warm it did show 8 degrees BTC. I actually just went for a 20 min drive n got the SES light again. I didn't bother seeing what it was cause I am sure its the cpde 32 again. I figured I'm going to try emissions test again since I've got a free one coming to me n if I fail this one Ill have to do some major troubleshooting. Not sure what I'll do though cause I'll need to buy some stuff to troubleshoot the EGR like that diagram says do. I may have to park car or pay someone to do it for me. Any other suggestions?


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Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Sitting here on my Android reading these post and just noticed yours. The guy I bought the car from said he put a new EGR on the car. With what you are saying there a no new replacements available unless whomever he had replace EGR make this conversion you are talking about. I took a good look at it yesterday and it looks brand new. Maybe it was installed wrong.


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Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The most common thing I have seen cause the code 32 is a bad solenoid, A good reading for the solenoid coil is 23-29 ohms.

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Ok got it to pass. Looks like changing the timing worked.

HC - 00090
HC allowed 00114

CO - 0.07
CO allowed 0.63

NO - 00422
NO. allowed 00796






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Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Congrats on getting it to pass! Concerning the EGR code 32, man that can be a royal, major PITA to fix! The good thing is a malfunctioning or non-functioning EGR usually doesn't affect emissions readings. It also doesn't really affect the way the engine runs either. I had EGR disabled in my PROM chip a long time ago so I didn't have the headache anymore. When I had my TBI motor, I just filled the EGR completely solid with RTV and bolted it back on, so it looked like it was there and functioning. Now that I'm running a Super Ram, and it's almost impossible to even see the EGR valve, I removed it a put a block-off plate on there. I don't know about the state you live in, but here, if your SES light is on, it's an automatic fail on the emissions test. Before I had EGR removed from the PROM, I just plucked the SES bulb out of the dash before going to the test!

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Thank you. I was really getting stressed about this because I bought the car to replace another GTA I have because it needs a new engine and I am not sure what way I want to go on it yet. I didnt want to go another cruising season without a car. This will hold me while I figure that out.

I was thinking the same thing about the EGR and I guess in the big scheme of things what you are saying is true but I found something on the forum that said its actually beneficial to have that thing working . If the car is stock is where I think it may be helpful. So in your case with a new intake this will not matter but for those that may see this thread in the future this may be useful. Check this link out.

https://www.thirdgen.org/egrdiagnose

I want to keep this particular car stock since its fairly rare so Ill catch my breath and in a week or two begin trying to figure this thing out. If anyone wants to help me with this as far as using the different tools to diagnose (Code 32) I would appreciate it. I really do not know how or have the tools now but do want to learn. So confused when it comes to diagnostic tools and reading some (not all) of the floor charts but its my intention to learn this year!!!

Thanks for everyone's help up to this point though!!!

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, I've seen posts talking about EGR and combustion chamber temps and the like. It probably is best to just disable it in the PROM, that way it doesn't affect timing or chamber temps. But on my TBI motor, it ran great just blocking it off. Then again, a TBI motor is about as non-performance as you can get anyways! Lol. While it is possible to diagnose and fix an EGR problem, it was just too much hassle in my opinion. The valve itself is expensive to replace, the solenoid can be hard to find, and if you look at that 6 or 7 page long post on here about the "EGR Temp Sensor" on the TPI motors, it's obviously impossible to find one of those! I left the blocked off one on my TBI motor so it'd pass the visual inspection, but on the Super Ram, you can't see it easily anyways, so off it went!

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

So changing the prom setting will eliminate the chamber temp situation? If that's the case then that's probably the way ill go then.


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Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You can reprogram the eprom 2 ways one just disable the malfunction code 32 or raise the threshold for the egr to come on so the egr function will be disabled. The egr function will lower your combustion temperature.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, a functioning EGR does lower chamber temps to a certain extent, but once again, it's not a big enough difference to actually affect anything.