willyp

Hello, everyone. I just won an eBay auction on a '86 305 TPI A4 Trans Am, in 'Champagne Red'. Not sure if that's the actual factory color, but that's what the seller called it. This car has only 27,000 mi. on it, & was purchased new off the showroom floor in 1986 by the woman who's name the car is still titled under. She was 60 yrs. old @ the the time of purchase, & is around 85-86 now. So, when you consider that, along with the crazy-low miles, I expect this car to not have been too badly abused over it's 26 yr. existence. (Crossing fingers!)
It is a T-top car, & has the digital dash. Gotta love that!
The car should be here before the end of this month, (it's currently located in Colorado, & I'm in WI.), so I plan on using that time to learn as much inside info about the 3rd Gen. cars as I can. I've previously owned two 4th Gen. T/As, & this will be my first foray into ownership of an F-body of this era. I hope you will all welcome me into this online community, & will assist me in my education towards learning everything I need to know about my new 'Baby'.

Thanks!

Bill

LHernandezJr

Welcome to TGO and congrats on your eBay purchase. Hope you're happy with it. Buying a car sight unseen takes some cojones (as some of my Cuban friends like to say)

I also bought a brand new 1986 T/A with a manual 5-speed back in '86. Fortunately, I was not 60 at the time - lol. My dash was analog (had no idea they offered digital dashes in 1986 for the T/As).

Have never heard of "Champagne Red." Maybe they were trying to describe a shade of metallic red? Have only heard of "Champagne Gold" but anyway, with only 27K miles it should be the original paint.

Enjoy your "new" car and post some pics when you get it delivered.

willyp

Thanks, Moto for the warm welcome! I wouldn't be being truthful if I said I wasn't a little apprehensive. This is the third T/A I've bought via eBay. The first car being a true low-mileage gem that I turned into a multiple show winner through blood, sweat & tears. The second car was a '00 WS6 that was badly misrepresented by a dishonest seller. And suffice it to say, I should of (and would have) gone after the s.o.b. if I wasn't right in the middle of a messy divorce, along w/a myriad of other personal difficulties I was dealing w/ @ the time.
So, I did my research on this one. It's history (or rather, it's lack thereof) speaks for itself. The car even scores a '50' on the 'Autocheck' points scale. I just confirmed tonight that the car has 4-wheel discs, so I'm now 99% sure it's a WS6 car. That makes me very happy,
indeed! That was the last thing don't know, other than the rear gearing. I know it's either got the stock 2.77 gears, or the optional 3.23s. I'm obviously hoping for the latter. As far as the digital dash, the original owners son who is selling the car, told me he thinks there may have beenit as few as 30 (or even less) Trans Ams w/the digital dash produced in '86. I hope that's the case. That would make this an even rarer bird than it already is!
Moto, do you know if these cars look 'right' w/chrome ZR1(17") wheels? And, would they fit w/o spacers and all that crap?

Thanks again!

redneckjoe

welcome aboard Bill. lots of nice people on here to help you out. best of luck on your new project.

LHernandezJr

Hi Bill,

Not sure about the ZR1 wheels, but there are a couple of threads on the subject: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/whee...-zr1-rims.html

and https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/whee...eels-post.html

I wanna see pictures of your car! haha.

Edwardgp

Bill with the Bowla's.

willyp

Thanks, Moto. But I've switched gears now. Does anyone re-pop the crosslaced (diamond-spoke) 16" GTA wheels? Or do I have to search the ends of the internet for an original pair?? I'm particularly interested in the ones w/the black centers and silver lip. I think these would look sweet on a 'Flame Red' (I finally got pics of the window sticker/codes) T/A. I'm wiling to sacrifice the 17" sizing to forgo the spacing/spacers/backspacing headaches. I'm really hoping I can find these wheels somewhere as a wheel/tire combo deal.

Thanks again, guys.

BTW, what is/are "Bowla's", Edward?

LHernandezJr

Like these? https://yearone.com/Product/DisplayProduct/417214

willyp

Yes, exactly. I found a place on ebay that sells original sets used. I really don't want to have to spend $800 on a set of 16" wheels w/o rubber. I know that's not outrageous, but the place selling the used sets (little nicks and dings, of course on 25 yr. old wheels) is only charging $450 a set. The only concern I have is when they say the "clear coat is faded (cloudy) on two of the wheels." I'm not sure if that can be restored, buffed, or not.(?) They also have 'graphite' centered ones for sale, and 'silver' as well. What do you think would be the best color for a 'Flame Red' car, iyho?
I know gold won't work, as this car has the silver accent decals, and that would clash in my opinion. Does SLP or anyone else ever sell these, or any other period-correct looking wheels w/tire combos that you know of?

Thanks again, Moto!

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Welcome aboard. Post some photos of your T/A, I'm sure everyone would like to see it.

willyp

Should I assume I have the 2.77 rear, if I don't see the 'G92' code (or whatever it is) on the window sticker? I don't see that option in my 'Standard Catalog of Firebird' book. Also, my car has the digital dash, & the correct option code for it on the window sticker (U52?). That's strange too, as my book doesn't even list the dig. dash option as being available until the '87's came out. Weird, eh?

LHernandezJr

Wheels can be restored. Even broken rims can sometimes be salvaged. There are people who specialize in wheel restoration so you may want to check for such services locally.

If the $450/set price includes shipping (unlikely), then that's a fantastic deal. If it does not, how much do they want for that? Shipping wheels can be pricey. Also, have you checked Craig's List? That can be a good source and you can inspect them and save on shipping charges.

Keep in mind that used stuff can end up costing you more than buying new.

I'd also check with Thirdgen Ranch as they provide refinishing services and sometimes offer wheels for sale. http://thirdgenranch.com/-strse-1217...ing/Detail.bok

As far as wheel color, either one would work, so that's more of a personal choice. I am leaning more toward the graphite though

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I appears that it was an option in 1986, a discussion is here;

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...986-trans.html

Since your new here, you may not know, but just everything having to do with 3rd Gens has been brought up at some time on this forum. If you have a question about a topic, do a search and see what's been posted about it, you'll likely an answer or at least some leads on where to look. I find the search here to be a valuable resource for me as a 3rd Gen owner.

willyp

Thanks again for that amazing info, Moto. And yes, I have had wheels shipped to me, and have shipped wheels to others, in the past. And I do realize the shipping costs can be a killer. I also realize that wheels can be 'touched' or 'cleaned-up', and the guy who will be working on restoring the paint finish on my car, is also quite experienced at working w/wheels as well. He has done many with the 'hot-rod' (flat) black centers. And knows how to 'acid-etch' the corrosion off of aluminum wheels.
Plus, he just so happens to owe my girl LOTS of $ in back child support, so we hope to use that to our advantage in the reconditioning of this car. ;^)
It's not like we're planning on extorting him or anything, he's a good sh*t. He just was down on his luck for a couple of yrs.
Now, he owns his own small body shop, and could actually use the work, and the 'free advertising', that cleaning this car up will undoubtedly provide him in the small(ish) town we all live in.
Anyway, I just checked, and the standard shipping is $110. $560 and some change is not too bad for a set of these wheels I'd have to say. I just wouldn't want to be too dissapointed in the quality of the "faded clear-coat" when they arrived. Not sure how tough that is to remedy.

Thanks again!

willyp

Lonestar, thanks for the info, and that excellent link. I had no idea there were that many makes and models out there that had iterations of the digital dashboard.
Thankfullly, as it sits, everything works on my '86's dash. And it is a highly-optioned car for the year. It is essentially the WS6 without the bigger swaybars. And it has the 'luxury-appointment' seats w/power driver's seat as well. Looking over the window sticker, it would be easier to tell which options it didn't get ordered with, to be honest. Thanks again, all. And thanks for the warm welcome(s), guys.
And I do mean that sincerely.

Bill

willyp

Moto, I went to that thirdgenranch link and saw the add for the wheel refinishing service. I am wondering when they say they will polish the aluminum to a 'mirror finish', does that mean they polish off the clear coating then? As I am concerned when the seller (of the $450 GTA wheels on eBay) comments on how on every set they have for sale they state, "The front two wheels (or the rear two wheels) have faded clearcoating", I am wondering if this can be restored or if it just removed through the 'polishing' process.(?) Any ideas on this?
Also, are the fronts and rears of these (GTA) wheel sets two different sizes then? That would suck, as you couldn't rotate them front to back, right?

Thanks.

LHernandezJr

I am no expert on this but, as far as I know, the only way to polish metal is to remove the clear coating, then polish the aluminum. The clear coating is there in order to help preserve the finish as aluminum will become dull over time due to corrosion.

The best thing is to talk directly with ThirdGenRanch.

I've seen GTA wheels advertised as fronts and rears so my guess is that they cannot be rotated front to back and vice versa. You can always rotate them from side to side, unless you have directional tires

Maybe someone with more knowledge on this subject can share some insight?

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

The backspacing on GTA wheels are different from front to back. Front wheels can be put on the back but back wheels can't be put on the front. Same goes for the 16" formula wheels are they are identical dimension wise to the GTA wheel

willyp

Thanks again for that great info! Can you tell by looking at them which are fronts and which are the rears? Or do you have to try to put them on the hubs before you can tell?

Thank you.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

They say front and rear right on them. But from a distance the outer lip is thinner on the rears than it is on the fronts. Opposite of what you would think it should be.

willyp

Alright, what's the dealio w/the 'dimpled' version of the GTA wheels? Are they more desireable or rarer than 'non-dimpled' wheels? Were they only on 1 or 2 yrs. of GTAs?
Thanks.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Welcome Bill, I too am from Wi. further north. I have relatives in your area though. Good luck with the car, I too bought mine off of ebay a few years back, I made out pretty good, hope you do too.

Edwardgp

Good luck on the e-bay purchase.

willyp

Thanks again, guys! Good to know there are some other 'Sconies on this cool site! I'm having the car appraised while it's still in CO. I really want to know how what I paid to win the auction, compares to it's appraised value. Plus, if I did as well as I'm hoping I did, it might help me to justify (to the g/f) why we need a new (restored) set of GTA wheels to compliment the new tires that we most definitely will need. This car's supposedly still riding on it's original 26 yr. old rubber! Yikes!!!

Thanks again for the warm welcome(s)!

Bill

willyp

So I take it SLP is pretty much out of the 3rd Gen. business? The only item they had under 'Exhaust Components' was an S-Pipe for headers they apparently no longer make. What gives? Because GM pulled the Pontiac plug, they decided to no longer provide the die-hard Fbody fans any aftermarket perf. part support? That's crappy. I'm guessing they have a somewhat limited supply of their intake runners left, yet they still want $330 & change for 'em! Are these good (power-adding) runners? Are there any better and/or cheaper runners out there?
And yes, I know this is a 'loaded' question, but what is the easiest, most economical way to get to 250-270 hp w/a '86 305 TPI? I don't want to go crazy w/this car, but it'd be nice to outrun my g/f's '06 GP (base).

Thanks in advance!

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Welcome to TGO! Would love to see some picture's! Did you save some?

88irocz28bwj

I have a 88 iroc 305 tpi, I just bought a 350 carb, I was wondering can I use parts from the 305 to make the 350 into a tpi

willyp

I'm guessing you posted to the wrong thread.(?)

Edwardgp

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Sorry dude, you posted in the wrong thread. You need to search a little and start your own post for your question. And as far as your question goes? You need centerbolt heads on the 350 for the intake to bolt up.

willyp

Well, back to the original subject of this thread. Bad news from my appraisal dude. Really bad, actually. He met with the girl who this family has apparently stuck w/the task of selling the car, (I think I know why), for her grandmother-in-law or whatever, & it's definitely not what I've been led to believe it is, condition wise. First off, the car doesn't need 'some cosmetic paint touch-ups', it needs to be repainted. Secondly, the t-top seals are torn, and most of the seals in the car are in poor shape.
While the car may have been stored in a garage forsome of its life, he said it looks like it hasn't been for years. It's been under a car cover in the baking CO. sun, & the arm rests, console, etc., are all peeling up pretty badly. What makes it all the worse, however, is that the thing is running like crap as well.
He said it's chugging & sputtering like crazy just idling, & that it's obviously running super-rich. I couldn't be more heart broken and pissed off @ the same time. Now I realize that I wasn't just being paranoid in my thinking that many of my questions only seemed to get half-answered, & w/no enthusiasm or assurance. I've put a $750 deposit down, but the guy thinks I should have no trouble getting it back. I'm not so confident. But he assures me that he's helped lots of people get their money back on cars like this that are misrepresented.
He said, in a nutshell, it basically looks like an 80,000 mile car that only has 27k on it. And not a well taken care of 80,000 mile car either.
Majorly bummed here. Thank GOD I decided it would be a good idea to spring for the $250 on an appraisal!

red rock

iTrader: (2)

So sorry to hear that Bill, It's too bad that people can't be honest anymore. I would hope you get your deposit back. Don't give up, there are still some good ones out there.

willyp

Thanks, 'Rock. Me too. Really disappointed in myself, actually. This is the second time this has happened to me onas eBay w/a Trans Am, & you think I'da learned my lesson the 1st time around.
I really thought I was asking all the right questions this time, & who'd a thought lightning would strike twice nearly 6 years apart? I'm thinking now that it really was strange, & not just me being paranoid, that I was able to win this auction against 3 other people w/only one $100 bid. And w/three f-in days left in the auction!? That doesn't happen very often. Well, (another) lesson learned, I guess. I knew I should have kept my cool, & stuck to my guns in trying to get this other seller to lower his price on his 19,000 mi. '97 WS6 M6. If I can get this seller(s?) to make this right, I just may continue to persue that avenue further. Thanks for the well-wishes & condolances, guys. And I think I may just stick around these boards, no matter what yr. or generation of 'Bird I eventually end up w/, if any.
This is a much more mellow message board than I remember F-body.com as being. W/much cooler-headed, & intelligent members to boot! When I used to post around there, I never knew whether or not I'd get a friendly, helpful reply, or a barrage of insults!
Thanks again, guys. And I'll be sure to keep those who care, posted on my 'situation'.

LHernandezJr

Damn, Bill. This is NOT what I wanted to hear. So sad this happened to you, but I think eBay may offer some recourse and you should be able to get your deposit back. eBay is really good about that.

At the end, if this bad experience only costs you $250, then consider yourself fortunate. Fixing a POS (regardless of make, model and year), can be costly far in excess of $250.

But don't give up on your search for a nice 3rd Gen. And once you put this bad experience behind you, I would suggest checking right here, on TGO, for a nice car. I've seen a few and prices seem to be down to earth, in most cases.

If I was ready to buy another 3rd Gen., I'd definitely check these boards and, if I found one that I'm really intrested in, I'd go look at it and test drive it personally and look at it as a mini vacation

The classified sections on TGO are quite comprehensive, and here are the links to the cars for sale.


Camaro:https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/camaros-sale/

Firebird: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/firebirds-sale/


Wish I'd seen this one before I bought mine... https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fire...s-am-sale.html

One last comment; as you know, buying a used, 25+ y.o. car means taking a chance regardless of its condition, and you'll have to spend additional money no matter what.

I paid 3 grand for mine and, when everything is said and done, I'll have close to $15K in it. Is it worth it? Well, it is to me, especially after you cross the point of no return - lol.

Please keep us posted and good luck!

willyp

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm super bummed. I messaged the young chick through eBay's messaging system, (so there'd be a record of it), & also via her private email address. Haven't heard a word yet. I stayed up till after midnight last night waiting for the appraiser to call me, so we could go over the details of the car, but he didn't call me till this aft. Now, I'm s'posed to wait for him to call tonight, again. On that note, I had a crazy thought today re: the appraiser. What if the car really isn't as bad as he's claiming, & he's planning on swooping in after I cancel the transaction, to buy it for his own private collection? I know that probably sounds paranoid as hell, but the car just doesn't look that crappy in the pictures, as he's claiming it to be.
Plus, I should mention that he's a huge GM car collector in the State of CO. Would any of you guys be willing to look the car up on eBay, & give me your honest opinions? I'm not positive you can view an item after it's been sold, but I could give you guys the item #, & you could check. Let me know if anybody's
interested, o.k.?
Thanks.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Bill, do you have any saved pictures, or the ebay listing saved? If you do, try to copy and paste them on here.

willyp

The item # is- 130743507997
'Rock, let me know if you can't pull it up anymore.

Thanks.

willyp

Still haven't heard a word from the seller. I'm more than a little nervous at this point...

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Can you go in your puchase history on ebay and copy the pics?

willyp

Did you try to search the Item #?
I'm on my phone, & I can only have one window open. Besides, I wanted you guys to read the write-up on the car, describing it's condition. Then compare all that to what my liscensed appraisal dude is telling me, & see what you think about this whole mess....

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Won't let me, or i'm not doing something right?

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Here's like a link to the completed auction. The photos are still up, I don't know how to copy photos. It looks pretty good in the photos there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=..._fvi%3D1#v4-40

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Good job lonstar7. Other than the pics with the imperfections, This looks like a good clean car. I'm not sure about a digital speedometer, if it turns over after 100,000 or keeps counting. Either way, from what is show'n, it looks nice. You would have noticable wear on the driver seat if it was over 100,000 miles.

willyp

Thanks, Lonestar! And,................... Right?!?!
Imagine my suprise @ the appraisal, then? I'm not an idiot, & unless those pics are of a different car than he appraised, I'm scratching my head @ his appraisal of, "$4000, tops." You see my conundrum, now?
Who do I believe? But if I believe the pics, & the sellers description(s), how was my single $100 bid enough to make the other bidders dissapear w/2+ days left in the auction? Something isn't making sense here...

willyp

I hope we get a bunch of members to chime in on this. At least I know I'm not blind. Or crazy. Would anyone say I badly overpaid for this car, judging by these pics? He said it would cost close to 10 grand to restore this car, in it's current state.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Not sure what to tell ya. Can't believe the seller hasn't contacted you yet? I don't think it would cost $10,000 to fix those problems. Maybe 1/3 that.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I figured out how to copy some small photos from the "printer version" of the auction page.

They are here:


https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public/1986%20Firebird

LHernandezJr

From eBay:I find the "confusion" with the t-tops very weird and suspicious, but anything's possible. The car looks pretty decent and the pics must be fairly current since the tag is stickered 2012.

Did someone install Accel spark plug wires at some point? Those don't appear to be factory, but what do I know - lol.

The spoiler crack can be fixed or the whole unit replaced. Not a big deal IMO.

The dent on the front fender is no biggie, either.

Other than those little details, I think I'd buy it for that price in a heartbeat. Then add another $5k and turn it into a heck of a show car.

The interior looks clean and the digital dash is pretty cool.

And, if the car turns out to be a turd or not as advertised, refer to the eBay guarantee.

willyp

Moto, I agree with pretty much everything you said. But neither of us have seen it in person, & my appraiser has. He insists the paint is peeling & faded, & the entire car needs to be repainted. That ain't cheap. Even w/my 'knowing a guy', that's gonna' run several grand right there. The appraiser & I just went over the photos over the phone, & the 1st thing out of his mouth was, "That looks like a totally different car then what I saw." So obviously, the photographs are misleading. Dude said he wouldn't appraise the car @ over $4200. Anyway, I filed my complaint, & requested my deposit be returned. We'll just have to see what happens now...
Thanks for the feedback everybody.

willyp

Oh yeah, the interior does look clean. But the armrests were peeling away from the doors, as were the door panel themselves. Due to it's NOT having been stored in a garage it's whole life (as was stated to me on several occasions) but instead being stored outside under a car cover, in the baking sun. Lots of little (pricey) original parts to be replaced, for sure.
I think I'm going to go back to the drawing board, & maybe take a road trip to Michigan, to look @ that '97 WS6 M6 (one owner) w/19k, that I was talking to my bank about before I fell ***-backwards into this confusing mess...