I picked up a set of Bosch III 27lb injectors to replace my old FMS 24lb injectors. I got them from South Bay. They use a pressed on adapter to increase the length of the Bosch IIIs to the TPI injector length. The shoulder on the adapter seems to be to big and prevents the injector from fitting all the way into the injector bore on my Edelbrock intake. The o-ring on the injector does not reach its sealing surface.

Here is a pic of the injectors from Southbay's website.


Here is my pic showing how far the Bosch IIIs fit compared to my old FMS injectors.


Anyone else have this problem? Any ideas?

 

i think you have no issue.., if you mount the rail i think you will be ok.. the bottom o ring is sealing in the bore.. Thats the main thing.. The top going into the rail further than the one on the left makes no difference..i would just assemble it and not worry. No clips.

 

But the o-ring isn't sealing. Thats my problem.

I got an email back from South Bay already.

Hi John,

I know exactly what the problem is…can you give us a call?

Update comming...

 

Ok, Southbay said some aftermarket manifolds require the normal injectors without the metal spacers. I'm still a bit skeptical as now the injectors will be shorter than the old ones which worked fine. But kudos to Southbay for excellent customer service.

 

When I switched from my factory 19 pounders to the LT1 injectors I am running now they were a little too short. I first tried to use the LS2 injector top oring. I was still having a vacuum leak. After thinking about it for a while I shaved the pedestal that the fuel rail bolts onto. That effectively "lowered" the injector into the hole further and sealed the vacuum leak. I don't know if that info helps you or not.

 

Its an idea I have considered, but I'd rather not pull the intake if I can help it.

I also just looked at the FIC website. It seems that their solution for the injector height difference would work better than the Southbay solution. They use an extra o-ring that seals against the bevel in the injector boss.

I am just obviously nervous using injectors that are now 1/4" shorter than they should be.

 

Watch this video from FIC if you haven't all ready. Try taking the machined caps off and using the original o-ring location. That should get you back up to the stock ford injector height.

 

Yeah I just saw that one. I guess I need to make sure Southbay sends the new set equipt with the second o-ring. If I understand how they are doing it, the lower o-ring fits into the bore and the second fits in the chamfer to prevent the injector from sliding to far into the bore. This brings the height back up to stock. See attached picture, far right injector. The second o-ring would fit into the groove just above the lower o-ring.

Sound about right?

 

Swap the orings from your 42's, just be gentle.

 

You are not understanding...as i explained to John, the reason why our injector with the adapter is not fitting is because of the edelbrock manifold. If you look at the pic our injector is sitting approx 1/4in higher than the fms, which is the lenght of the stock tpi injector. The fms are the same legnth as the bosch lll's oring to oring without our adapter. The double oring design that FIC uses is something that we all used to rectify the length issue with the stock tpi injectors. The adapter that we designed is just an upgraded design over the double oring set up. If the injectors sit too high with the adapter, they are going sit too high with the second oring,, reason being is that with the double oring set up, the additional oring sits on the outside of the manifold thereby acting as a spacer to give the bosch lll additonal height for proper fitment. Our adapters and lower oring were custom made to fit to the exact height as the stock tpi injector and the height of the bosch with the second oring. I am going to send a another set with the double orings,, they are still going to sit to high, if you push the second oring too far into the intake then you will be defeating the purpose. This intake is an edelbrock intake not stock.

 

Yes, it just seems strange that edelbrock would be different than stock. Stupid aftermarket parts. Southbay is treating me very well.

 

Southbay seems to treat everyone well

 

Thank you, we sure do try our very best

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com
516-492-6504

 

So what was the actual issue? I have the 27 lb injectors as well as an aftermarket intake will I be running into this problem?

 

can you give me a call? If I remember correctly you and i discussed this issue when you purchased the injectors. Thanks.

 

Actually it can make a difference. Its possible to push the injectors into the rail far enough that the oring goes past the machined surface in the rail. In that position, it will leak pretty badly.

 

Why don't you post the info on the correction that you are doing. No one can see a phone call. Our do you have something to hide?

 

I don't understand why you have to be this way. If you have a question just ask without making accusations....we will be MORE than happy to answer all questions. If you read all of my posts you will see what the correction is...it is very simple. Instead of using the injectors with our adapter which is the same as the double oring set up, due to the aftermarket intake you just need the bosch lll's without the adapter or the double orings.
I am NOT hiding anything.
We sold over 5,000 of the bosch lll injectors with our adapter last year WITHOUT ONE PROBLEM. We are just finding that they do not fit with aftermarket intakes, SO we will be sure to make everyone aware of this issue when purchasing our tpi injectors.

www.southbayfuelinjectors.com
516-492-6504

 

they do this to be polite. and it solves a problem right away with out going back and forth over messages and taking up people time? When it comes to buisness time is money especially when you stand by your product. I respect that. I guess there is a couple of ways you can look at it, but if you have delt with southbay you know that they have good customer service and you will know that they arent trying to get over on you.

 

There is no place for the 'tude in this thread. The fix is to use the injectors without the adapters.

 

I got the new injectors today. How about that for fast shipping, NY to WA. Excellent service again from Southbay.

Its looks like the new setup with the double o-rings will work well for me. They sit slightly taller (maybe 1/10") than the FMS injectors and probably1/8"-1/6" shorter than the Bosch III's with metal adapter.

FMS vs Bosch III with double o-ring


Bosch III with metal adapter vs Bosch III with double o-ring


Somewhere I have the stock injectors. I'll see if I can dig them up and make some comparisons.

Southbay. I'll get the old ones shipped back to you tomorrow or Saturday. I wanted to get some pics taken before I sent them back.

 

I have a question,,, how far down is the second oring? Is it visible on the outside of the intake? The point of the second oring on the bosch lll's is for it to act as a spacer and to sit on the outside of the intake when needing the extra height for the stock setups.

 

I running FIC Bosh 3 24# injectors with a Edebrock intake base and SPL runers #3 and #5 runners tubes get in the way installing the Injector plugs it will fit but it tight fit.

Can I ask why you using 27# injectors is your motor built.

 

Yeah i had the same problem when i put mine in. I think mine might be in a little to deep

 

can you do a video or something putting a blue top 24 and the bosch3 side by side.. That would be cool if you don't mind

 

The injectors without the metal adapter are the same exact length oring to oring as the FMS that is why the bosch lll's should be fine without the additional oring or the adapter.

 

If you give me a minute i will take a pic right now. Don't go away.

 

ok, so here is a pic with a fms next to a bosch lll oring to oring. (single oring, no adapter)
the other pic is of the fms with the 22lb and our adapter for the Stock TPi setups
Sorry for the dirty looking injectors just grabbed a couple so that i can take the pics
Can get a video out within the next couple of days. Hope this helps for now.

 

My FIC 24# are Black I was not sure what brand they were at first I asked after I recived them if they were Bocsh 3 Injectors before my 24 were 22# and they were Yellow.


I ran the Yelow ones for a month before I pulled the motor and built a mild built motor for my Vett that needed bigger injectors Oh ya FIC traded me for the larger injectors and yes I had to pay a small price to do so.

 

It is down pretty far. But I think the chamfer on the Edelbrock manifold is longer and/or wider than stock. So while you can't see the second o-ring, it is indeed resting on the chamfer. The injectors aren't going anywhere. I think I also have my stock intake laying around somewhere. I'll see if I can dust it off tonight and re-take all the photos with it.

 

John, for curiosity sake, is it possible to try one of the injectors with one oring? As you can see in my pics, the measurement oring to oring with the fms and the bosch is exactly the same. So i am confused as to why you need the second oring? Did the fms fit without a problem? Feedback from any other members with this problem would be greatly appreciated so that we can address this problem accordingly. Unfortunately when we designed these adapters we did not have every aftermarket intake.
We have changed ever one of our adds on our website and ebay instructing people to call us if they have an aftermarket intake.

 

You can't do that. Those bottom o-rings are proprietary on that extension setup.

We do the double o-rings with standard o-rings so you can repair them in the field. Ask Marv02, he asked me about that.

You can go to the local auto parts store and pick up an o-ring on the fly for pennies, no waiting, no shipping. If you pull that injector and the o-ring sticks to the manifold, your SOL until you can get one shipped.

Bosch has a provision for an additional o-ring. The must have put that o-ring provision there for some reason, and who am I to argue with Bosch. It's safe, seals, and readily available. We've done THOUSANDS of these injectors with the double ring, without a problem.

 

In response to your concern, the bosch lll is one of the most efficient and reliable injectors out there.

 

I will try them without the second o-ring tonight. I simply like the idea of the second o-ring to positively locate the injector so it cannot possibly get pushed to far into the manifold.

 

i understand, if you do not mind it is just more info for us, yet i keep going back to the same issue...if the fms fit without a problem then the bosch lll should be fine without the extra oring as they are both bosch and measure exactly the same oring to oring. That is why i am so anxioius to see how it works out. I appreciate all of the time that you are taking to work with me.

 

Yes, but the FMS have the clips to prevent them from getting pushed out of the rail. I'll try it tonight and see how comfortable I am without the second o-ring.

 

Yes, that is correct, but the bosch lll's are the newer generation of the fms. The bosch lll's do not use the clips, it is the pressure from the fuel rail that holds them in place.

 

Can I interject here because you seem not to understand what really going on here. True the old 24 and the new Bosch 3 without a clip spot are the same length o ring to o ring. However, when you put in the style 2 with the clips the rail and the injector become one. So the clips actually suspend the shorter injector above the manifold a little. The bottom o ring does seal in the bore so it's not a problem. If you mount the design 2 without clips and seat them fully in the manifold the top o ring will not go into the rail very far and you will have a potentially dangerous situation. Therefor, the Bosch 3 without some kind of raised seat will not seat the upper o ring in the rail either. So the installation requires some kind of mod to the seat. I prefer the second o ring in the grove that is already in the injector. This ring will provide the extra height needed to seal the upper side of the injector into the rail. I have put so many of these together with early style and late style injectors. You have not, as I can tell from your answer. It's ok not to BS here, most injector shops don't install and very few have ever turned a wrench. Hope this helps you guys

 

Southbay, is there a part number for the extra O-rings? Are they listed on your web site? I need to do this myself. Thanks

 

What do you mean BS? I totally understand what is happening here. You may install them but we sell them and we spent close to 6 months working on the exact fitment of the adapters with a stock tpi manifold and rail before we started to sell them. We have NEVER HAD A PROBLEM with any set that we sold. Why do you think we designed the adapter?? We sometimes use the double oring set up and we also use the adapter..to give the additional height,, but that is used for a totally stock tpi setup..we are dealing with an aftermarket intake here which has made a difference in the fitment of the tpi injector. (bosch lll with the adapter)

 

I purchase them from a supplier in California...GB remanufacturing. If you want orings give me your address and i will be more than happy to send you some.

 

What I mean is you never say I don't know.. You just want to fight with anyone that questions you. If you knew what you say you would know that this manifold uses a tpi injector. You would also know how a early style ford fits using the clips. All I want to do is give my forum member friends a logical explination of why you said if the old style fit then the new ones do to. Why don't you thank me for the expliation before the poster pulls his hair out. Your adapters do the trick no problem, but not on this application and no adapter will not work either. So what do you tell him? Try it I,m anxious to see.. See what?

 

I am so not trying to fight with anyone, and i do know how the early style injectors fit using the clips. I never say i don't know???? Have you read my posts? I asked all members of this forum for feedback if they were experiencing the same problem so that it never happens again.. but some of you start with accusations, thinking that we are hiding a deep dark secrets, can't you just have a conversation or a discussion? Did you ever think that there might be something here for all of us to learn? I am not trying to make him pull his hair out, if you read my posts to him i thanked him for working with me so that i can also learn from this issue and deal with it appropriately from this point on. . How many different ways do i need explain that?? I think that is obvious that my adapter does not work with this intake and i would like to know how the injector fits with and without the extra oring. I would like as much info as possible. Why do you see that as being unreasonable or lacking in knowlege? Obviosly i do not know the answer as of yet, but i am certainly trying to figure it out

 

Yeah that was my point about the clip. Thanks for explaining further. Perhaps the Edelbrock has a deeper injector bung than stock.

 

I don't mind putting in the leg work. I am actually not pulling my hair out at all. This is a good learning experience.

 

Thank you John, trust me i am learning from this also and i am not ashamed to say it. Once again i appreciate the help.

 

Ok. Here we go. First of all I found my old stockers, Rochester 5235302.

FMS vs B III 2-ring vs B III adapter vs B III 1-ring vs stock with tops lined up

 

FMS vs Stock


B III adapter vs Stock


B III 2 o-ring vs Stock

 

Just asking why would you want to use 27# injectors on a stock motor..
What I have gathered all it going to due is use more gas not give you any more power.


And even if you had a chip burned for the larger injectors the stock motor cant use as much fuel as the 27# injectors can supply in to the motor.

My motor in a mild build with 24# injrctors works fine thats a 353 H/P motor at 4500 Rpm's and 460 TQ at 2500 RPM and set to rev up to 5200 RPM's, It could rev higher but it has a 1100 to 5200 type cam in it.

Next reason My motor not set up to rev is the TPI intake system not a high reving set up they say you can get it to work 5500 to 5800 RPM's but why for everyday street car how offen are you going to be able to wind it that high.

 

B III 2 o-ring vs B III 1 o-ring


B III metal adapter vs B III 1 o-ring


FMS vs B III 1 o-ring