TPI86TA

I have a 89 GTA 5.7 TPI that im restoring. The car has been sitting a few years and now im trying to get it running.So heres whet im now dealing with:

I jump out the fuel pump relay so the pump is running, and i get desired fuel pressure according to where i adjust my AFPR,about 36 PSI. As soon as I pull my jumper wire the pump shuts off, but then my fuel pressure immediately drops to "0" PSI.

Next i energize the pump again and i pinch off the return line. My pressure is now even higher, @ 48 PSI. I figure that normal and i also figure when i pull the jumper wire i should hold pressure. Instead the pressure immediately drops to 0 psi again, while i still have the return line pinched off?

I dont see any gas leaks anywhere in the entire system. Im thinking maybe the gas is just leaking past the injectors? What are your guys thoughts on this? Sound like bad injectors?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Having said nothing at all about your trouble shooting, if you told me you had a TPI motor with Multec injectors (which you do for 1989) and that it had been sitting for a few years, I'd say it's a safe bet you need new injectors.

....as for your trouble shooting, I can't really be of much help, but.....like I said.....

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Build up the pressure a few times and then remove sparkplugs and see if they are wet / smells fuel, if so then its the injectors.

irocuroc

hey check out this thread form the corvette forum.. might be your problem
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2055067

TPI86TA

Awesome. Thanks for the help so far guys. I think i might just go ahead and replace them anyways and see what happens since im putting a set od siamesed runners on. Do you guys suggest stock 22 lb injectors or 24 lb injectors. I do have an AFPR, flowmasters, hypertech chip, free mods, and im putting bigger runners on. Do you guys think 24 lb would be overkill???

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

It's not overkill, and quite frankly, they're all but the same with regards to what is needed by your motor. So long as your car's computer is programmed accordingly, either size will pretty much work the same.

......but.......

if the computer thinks you have 22s, (which yours does) then the 24s will cause you to run rich. How rich, and whether or not it's enough to cause major issues is up for debate. There's TONS of discussion on this topic. The only real problem is that 22s are difficult to find, where as most aftermarket injector companies offer a 24 pound injector.

I bought Ford 24 pounders and had the computer programmed accordingly.

irocuroc

ANY BODY WANTS THESE I HAVE A SET OF BOSCH PINK TOP 22'S NEVER USED.. 180 BUYS THEM

TPI86TA

I was hoping to compensate with some more air and spark for all that fuel with the Hypertech coil cap and rotor set up, Acell 8.8 wires and Bosch Platinum +4 plugs.

TPI86TA

Would an aftermarket chip be the same as reprograming the computer?

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah because all your info is in the PROM not the computer, So if you get an performance prom/chip thats modified it would be the same

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Doesn't work like that. The computer knows how much air is coming into the motor, and fires the injector accordingly. Adding air will only lead the computer to add more fuel, since it's assuming you're still running 22 pound injectors.

Depends on how you interperet that last answer. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
With regards to chip/computer/prom etc. etc., yes, an aftermarket chip is technically what we're talking about when we discuss the computer. Basically (just like your home PC) the car has a computer that runs on software. Techically you're not changing the computer, just the software, or "chip". When you get REAL DEEP into EFI, then yes, lots of people do in fact get into changing the actual computer itself, but that's a WHOLE 'nother conversation, and it's not necessary at all for what we're discussing here. What you need, is to have your current computer running on a new "chip". That new chip tells the computer that you have 24 pound injectors, not 22 pounders. Pop the old chip out, pop the new chip in! Takes about 10 seconds once you pull the computer out from under the dash!

....however, if your question is whether or not an AFTERMARKET chip is what you need, then I'd say it depends on what kind of chip it is. All off the shelf chips like Jet or Hypertech assume you're still running stock parts. In your case, 22 pound injectors. Since you have 24 pounders, you'll need someone to custom program a chip for YOUR motor. I had this done when I went to 24# injectors, and I had them change some other parameters as well since I have an aftermarket cam, exhaust etc. etc.

Hope that helps.
----------
Didn't want to overclutter that last post!

....lot's of people have had bad results with the Boshc +4 plugs. Keep in mind that electricity follows the path of least resistance, and no matter how many prongs your sparkplug has, you still only get one spark. That beings said, it's still a good plug. A lot of the LSx motor guys LOVE these plugs, but for whatever reason, a lot of older motor guys (you and me) don't have such good luck. "most" guys with mildly modified TPIs are still running stock AC Delco plugs.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah BUT if he goes with bigger injectors he needs to change the prom to correct injector constant.

What he meant I think is if he buys an aftermarket chip will that "reprogramm" the computer so it runs with the right info about the car.

No need to go that deep Abubaca just for changing to 24lbs injectors

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Buying a hypertech or Jet chip will reprogram the computer, but will NOT reprogram the computer to handle the 24# injectors.

Simply stating that an aftermarket chip will work is not enough. What KIND of chip is important.

TPI86TA

Do you guys know what other injectors are compatible with our TPI engines? As far as mustang injectors, what years? And how about LT1 injectors?

irocuroc

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CALL JON AT FIC.. 770 888 1662.. HE KNOWS ALL THIS.. DON'T FORGET THAT THE MUSTANG INJECTORS ARE SHORTER THAN THE GM.. HE NOW HAS DROP IN BOSCH 3'S THAT ARE THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE GM.. ONLY THEY HAVE THIS. HIS TECH IS FREE AND HE REALLY LIKES TO HELP US.. I HAVE SENT MANY GUYS TO HIM,.
HE WON;T STEER YOU WRONG

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

A gazillion people have used them with no problems. Seriously. A gazillion.

83Firebird420

in regards to that link in the first few posts. is this link the injectors he sells?

http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=134

ive been thinking about buying them...kindof worried at how cheap they are compared to ones ive been quoted at my local parts store....but if these are the ones that are in those videos..im sold haha.


haha never mind i just looked at the contact page and it matches the phone number that was posted here....thanks anyways.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

You will not get any BETTER injectors then those, they are the best on the market, He have set the price under all others just to prove a point, Ill get those injectors later on instead of my Ford (Denso) ones, the Bosch III has a great spraypattern and flows the same..

So buy them and install

83Firebird420

well looks like im buying some new injectors

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Sounds good to hear

TPI86TA

I ordered my 24 lb ford injectors today so i WAS happy. I unbolted the fuel rail and found that none of the injectors seemed to be leaking after all.I pressurized the fuel pump and now a single drip out of any of the injectors. But i figured they are multecs and the car has been sitting so its just a matter of time before i have a problem. So now im thinking it could only be one of two things causing my problem.

1: My brand new wal bro pump is defective and allowing the fuel to back feed when not pressurized.

or

2: I noticed fuel leakage ontop of the fuel pump assembly where the hard metal lines come out. Its not a lot, just a little bit of dampness forming, from a pinhole leak where the hard lines come out. Looks like something may of have been tweaked a little too hard during replacement.

What would you guys suspect to be the culprit? Do you think something like that can be repaired some how? Maybe JB Weld? Im leaning toward option #2 being my culprit now.

irocuroc

i would fix that for sure.. why ford 24's they flow over 25.5 lbs with gm pressure.. now you need a tune.. should of got 22 3rd gen bosch

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

There is nothing wrong with buying the 24lb Fords. They are nice injectors. And the extra poundage can be useful in the future if you plan on more engine modifications. I got my chip modified for 24lb injectors for $20.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

There are two types of Ford injectors, one that are made by Denso and one Bosch, the Denso ones really dont like pressure over 39PSI so hopefuly you get the Bosch type. Still you need to change in your prom because at 44PSI (our pressure) they flow more then 24lbs the ford injectors will flow : 25.44lbs on 44PSI pressure..

I would go with the Bosch III injectors from fuelinectorconnection anyday..
Bosch III have a great spray pattern : http://www.youtube.com/v/KFY_PKJNqbs

Right now I got Ford injectors (Denso ones) will change them to Bosch III in some weeks

Remember to change o-rings with the Ford injectors and also remember to use the C clips on the fuelrail to..

TPI86TA

Do the injectors usually come with c clips, or where can i get them? Today i pressurzed the fuel pump and i was checking that little leak back on the top of the fuel pump assembly. Well i have an AFPR installed and had the pressure all the way down. When i turned the pressure up the leak became much worst. Needless to say i now know why my fuel pressure doesnt hold when the pump shuts off.

I bought the injectors off of ebay and heres what it said about them:

24LB FORD FUEL INJECTORS

Genuine set of 8 nickel-plated Ford 24 lb/hr 24 lb 24lb/hr fuel injectors (Bosch style Design II top feed injector, blue tops, 255cc/min flow rate). In excellent condition; clean with no rust, tested, rebuilt with new pintle caps and o-rings.
Fits Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, or can be used for modifying any Ford V-8, Chevy TPI V-8, Chrysler/Dodge V-8, or BMW 6/8 cylinder engine, car or truck. 24LB 24 LB FUEL INJECTORS FORD MUSTANG 5.0 5.8 4.6

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Then you bought the Bosch ones wich is the good Ford injectors

and No the injectors dosent come with C clips, you have to reuse the stock ones. They can be bought from tpiparts I think but you can reuse the C clips how many times you want unless you brake them ..

irocuroc

this is exactly why you should get the Bosch 3's that are modified to fit the same way the originals do.. even with the clips the top o ring is not really in the rail as far as it should be.. the bottom of the o ring can be seen. Also you must use 15mm gm orings on the fords. the last thing is that that injector is a 25lb at your pressure. so when you retune make sure you use 25 as a constant

TPI86TA

So i shouldnt use the o rings that come on the injector? Does anyone have a part number for the gm 15mm o rings? Or is that just a matter of me going to the local auto store and asking for tpi fuel injector o rings? Should i also replace all the fuel rail o rings or will they be ok as long as idont disassemble it? Thanks again.

irocuroc

go to auto parts and ask for o rings for a camaro.. all gm are 15 mm.. dont worry about the bottom. the 14.5 fit fine and seal the vacume.. the top is the one with the pressure. replace all the top ones.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

I bought my o-rings from tpiparts, got 16 orings and I changed them all just to be 100% sure for no leak at all..

link : http://tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/300

doc

WARNING!!!! Several LS1 go-fast companies have stopped selling LS1 injectors for L98 usage because of several gasoline fires that have burned down the entire car. The LS1 injectors are too short for use in a TPI car. DONT DO IT. I have an '87 L98 IROCZ and a '99 LS1 SS. I have measured both injector types, the LS1 injectors is 0.12" shorter from centerline oring to centerline oring (these are the sealing surfaces). The link posted above claims that the injector will work in both LS1s and L98s. If its really designed for one, it will not work in the other type car.
You have been warned.

However, the Ford Racing injectors will work in our 3rd gen TPI cars. I have been running my 24s for 10 years or so.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but I would spend my money on the Bosch III modified injectors from Fuel Injectior Connection anytime they are the exact height as the stock ones and are direct fit. FIC is the only one that sells these Bosch III with the same height as stock, and they have a great price to

The ford ones are shorter then stock ones. they work but the Bosch III are rated at the same PSI as our fuelrail. (ford ones are rateed at 39psi.)

TPI86TA

Well i finally received my fuel injectors and first of all they were pretty dirty for rebuilt. And i was missing an o ring which is ok because i have to change them anyways, but its just the principal. 3rd which is most disturbing, i looked at the side of the injector and it says Denso on it. So does that mean im beat and he really didnt sell me bosch II style? You guys think these are even worth me installing. I paid $85 for them. Thanks again.

irocuroc

they are crap single pintal type injector that sprays like a garden hose. They are no way even close to a Bosch.. Why not get the DESign 3 Bosch from FIC.. They are the only ones that sell the drop in ones that are the same height as gm. you can probably get the 85 back reselling them on e bay to a mustang stocker. but, they are not good for your tpi.. Who did you get them from anyway

Theking

iTrader: (1)

DONT install the Denso ones.. They dont like pressure over 39PSI and they dosent spray any good... and no they ar not bosh II if it says denso..

Call Jon at FIC and buy these ones instead : http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=134
Phone : 770-888-1662

I showed you a flowtest on those earlier in the thread who sold you the Denso that dosent even where complete ?

As said call Jon and he will help you out, $169,95 for the Bosch III injectors with 3 years warranty, thats real good, keep us posted about this

TPI86TA

I finally got a full refund from this guy through pay pal. Just waiting for the money to clear into my account. I was going to say a few more buck and buy a set like you guys mentioned from FIC. But i saw these on ebay i wanted to see what you guys think? Heres a link to what i saw:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2BSI%26otn%3D4
----------
Just trying to cut cost as much as possible while still getting a good product. Married with 2 kids so the more i save the better. Thanks again.

irocuroc

FIC ALSO SELLS THESE.. bOSCHII FOR 124.95
HERE IS THE LINK.. THERES ONLY 20 HRS LEFT BUT HE ALWAYS HAS THEM. JUST GO TO HIS E BAY STORE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...064268490&rd=1

TPI86TA

Thats also a really good deal, but for $5 more i can get the 24 lb bosch ford injectors. Id really like to upgrade to 24 lb injectors if im going to buy some. If i go with 24 lb and retune my computer, how much more power will i gain in comparison to 22 lb injectors. I do have an AFPR and siamesed runners. I, porting the plenum to match. Also, how bad will the car run with 24 lb and the stock computer?

irocuroc

SIZE OF INJECTORS DO NOT GIVE YOU POWER. IF YOU ADD FUEL YOU MUST ADD AIR. YOU SAY YOU WANT TO SAVE MONEY. THE BOSCH 24'S ARE RATED AT 39PSI THEY FLOW 25+ IN OUR CARS.. NOW YOU HAVE TO GET A BIGGER THROTTLE BODY AND A ADJ FUEL PRESSURE REG. PLUS A TUNE.. 22LBS IS ENOUGH FOR 380 HP.. A FAT(RICH) ENGINE WILL RUN WORSE.. BELIEVE ME I HAVE BEEN ALL THROUGH THIS BS TO MANY TIMES.

TPI86TA

Thank you for all the helpful input. I think i may just go with 22 lb after all.

TPI86TA

But then again i am putting bigger runners on and i was thinking about a bigger throtttle body i was going to get cheap from a body. I already have the AFPR installed, and i have the siamesed runnners ready to be installed. Hmmm decisions decisions.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Bigger throttlebody will NOT give you anymore HP because the stock throttlebody will outflow the TPI intake anyday,.. So the stockone is good for a good while.

And dont go with bigger injectors, if you do, you need to reburn your prom and change the injector constant and also Ford rates their injectors at 39psi so it would flow like ~25,8lbs and that would make you rich all over the place..

I would go with the Bosch III from FIC anyday, nothing to think of, just call Jon up and tell him that you want the Bosch III 22lbs for 169,95 and he will help you out

Bosch III : http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=134
Phone : 770-888-1662
Email : info@fuelinjectorconnection.com

irocuroc

1 more thing since you have a AFPR you can push a bosch 3 to 60 psi and get it to flow upto 25.8.. but the 22 is plenty.. spend the xtra and get the 3's.. they also are 100% complient to ethonol. the older bosch's are not. and where you live they are using ethonol in all the fuel. thats why the des 2 bosches are cheeper. but you will need new ones again in a while.

TPI86TA

OK i decided im going with the Bosch III. What do you guys think of these? I found these on ebay and they look like the same thing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Fu...spagenameZWD1V
----------
Hey is it me or does it look like there the connector plugs in, is at the wrong end of the injector facing the wrong way?

TPI86TA

Maybe its just the way im looking at them. Do you still use the c clips with these? Or do they just click in somehow to the fuel rail?

83Firebird420

most, if not all injectors use some form of clip to hold them inplace. use the clips!

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Go with these instead : http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/sh...&productId=134

it dosent say anything about warranty on the ebay ones, So buy them from FIC instead, then you get 3 years warranty. And the ones on Ebay is shorter then stock. Fuel Injector Connection is the only ones that sell direct fit, same height as stock on the Bosch III... So go with FICs Bosch III instead, same height and 3 years warranty.

and you need to use the C clips thats on the fuelrail..

irocuroc

I AM GOING TO TELL YOU ABOUT SB INJECTORS.. LOOK AT THEIR FEEDBACK 3 MONTHS AGO THEY WERE SELLING DOLL CLOTHES. GO LOOK.. THEY GOT IN THIS BUSINESS AND ARE COPYING FIC.. ONLY PROBLEM IS THEY DON'T MODIFY THE BASE OF THE INJECTOR SO THEIRS ARE TOO SHORT AND THE TOP O RING WILL NOT SEAL PROPERLY. YOU WILL HAVE A FIRE. LOOK AT THIS VIDEO ON YOU TUBE FIC HAS BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR 30 YRS DEAL WITH THEM GO TO THIS LINK AND WATCH ALL THE 3 VIDS
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2055067

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah go with FIC you will be a happy man

t/agta

are lt1 injectors a direct swap? I will get it programmed into the chip that they're 24s not 22s, but are they the same size as stock l98 injectors?