I just got the JET performance TPI Airfoil and I had a question. It didn't come with bolts or anything, but I've always read on the net and on the guides that it 'bolts in'. Is there supposed to be some way to bolt it in? I'm really wondering because, like I said, It didn't come with any bolts and the directions didn't say to bolt it on either. I just took off the intake, placed it on the throttle body, and slipped the intake back over it. Any help???

 

You did the right thing. It's one of the few that doesn't have bolts. I was a little disappointed with mine. I put a dab of RTV on the inside parts that sit in the throttle body to hold it in place.

 

Yeah, mine kept falling out so I just held the lil f***er in there while I put the boot back on. At first it was going shhhhhhhhhhhhhh like in a turbo car in Gran Turismo 2 and I was stoked, "It sounds like a turbo!!!" Then I used my brain and tightened the clamp some more and the shhhhhhh went away. *Sniff Sniff* I wanted the turbo-like sound

 

Actually, IIRC, the instructions state to install the air foil into the first rib of the intake duct. It doesn't bolt to the throttle body as some airfoils do. Hope this helps.

Ken

 

See if you can return it and buy a hypertech airfoil instead.

Bugs

 

Or return it and make your own w/ epoxy and save the $$$ for a real mod.


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Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

[This message has been edited by Ed Maher (edited October 24, 2001).]

 

Thanks guys, I double checked it today and it looks good. I'm gonna go mess with it some more in a little bit. Last night the throttle stuck. When I turned on the car it stayed at 1500rpm, so then I reved it and it stayed there to, so I turned it off. Went under the hood, moved the throttle, it felt right, started her up again and all was well. Anyone have this kinda problem? I don't think it coulda been me or the airfoil. The buzz it normally makes when the comp come on when you first turn the key partially sounded funny when it stuck though. I hope it was just a random anomoly


BTW, the throttle has never stuck before(But then again, I've only had this car since August or so)

 

How do you make your own?

 

Considering you're looking at a picture of it and i said use epoxy (epoxy putty if you want to get specific) to do it...
it's easy.
1- Clean the space between the TB bores very well with some brake cleaner or other non-residue leaving solvent.
2- Get yourself a tube of epoxy putty and mix it up as per the directions.
3- Take a bolt or some object and hold it in the space between the bores as you mold putty into the gap to fill it. The purpose of the bolt is to allow a hole for the breather and IAC passages to function as designed. this is esecially true for the IAC passage on the bottom.
4- you're done. It's prolly not worth anything,but at least you didn't waste real money on it.

 

I found this very funny.

Do airfoils really not do anything?

 

Epoxy putty...Please! Don't do that. If the putty flakes or chips loose it is going into your intake. The Jet Airfoil smoothes the airflow and achieves the same purpose as porting and smoothing a runner. Some guys should stick to putting in white face gauges and painting their oil dipsticks.

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87 TA, 305 TPI, Custom CAI, ACCEL 8mm wires,ACCEL Super-coil, ACCEL Plugs, JET TPI Airfoil, Cherry Bomb Muffler
"35 yr old helo pilot
with a cool new toy my 17 yr old son wants"
The Phoenix Project..click to see my project car
Trans Am stuff and GIRLS, GIRLS, GIRLS!!!!!

 

You apparently have no idea who you are talking to.

 

Well, it's been on for the better part of a year and 15k miles including lots of severe summer heat and it's still as firm and attached as ever. I doubt the 250 max it ever sees could hurt it, and it doesn't take any direct abuse so i don't see why it would fall apart, especially not start chipping. Epoxy is plastic after all, gee, i hope my air filter snorkel doesn't chip and fall in my intake.
And considering the most optimistic dyno results have shown like a 5hp max gain (most show no change), i really doubt there's a big difference between the jet airfoil and a flatter design like my epoxy piece. BTW, if the big gunky fin was so worthwhile, why do aftermarket TBs that come with cast in airfoils have plain flat pieces like mine instead of a big sharp fin?

 

I'm talking to a moderator with more time in front of a computer than in an engine or school. BTW your pictures don't work either. I'm an Army Helicopter Pilot with a degree in Aerodynamics. Suggest you study Bernoulli's Principle and the Venturi effect. Read up on NASA vortex wind state and airfoil theory and get back to me.

 

You're right, i do have more time in front of a computer than in an engine, but it's not fair to say the same about school since i'm a computer engineer with 150 undergraduate credits.
I know about bernouli's principle, and i don't need to read a NASA paper about airfoil theory to know that in practice, at best an airfoil is worth 5hp. Why would i want to study the phenomenon any further, if a flatter airfoil is only worth 3.3 hp, i'll sacrifice the other 1.7hp in the name of $48.
About it lasting in there. I'm not the first person to do this. I've heard from a few people that they've heldup, at least a couple of whom that have had them for years. We're talking about epoxy, a rock hard plastic. Wind is not going to break it apart. I'd be willing to hit my airfoil with a hammer and chisel just to demonstrate that it takes a solid blow to actually break/chip it. As far as the bond to the TB itself, thats the weak link i'll admit. Thats why i said to clean with brake cleaner or a non residue leaving solvent (stuff like carb cleaner does leave a residue, i have spent 'enough' time under a hood to know a few things.) We've all seen the ridiclulous claims for epoxy's holding strength (duplicates of the zany super glue stuff, like guy's in hardhats glued to girders , etc), if 1/4 of it is true then i'm sure it's stronger than it needs to be. I did test it by hand pressing firmly on it to make sure it wouldn't break free and it was SOLID.
In closing, i don't need to do calculations or study up to see that epoxy airfoils have worked for other people, and seem to be quite strong enough to hold up to wind. Further, i don't think the specifics of the shape of the airfoil matter enough to warrant spending more money for the ever so slight gain it may afford. As a matter of fact, i question the mental capacity of someone who would waste so much time on what appears to me to be trivial.

 

Neither does the one in your sig. At least mine does sometimes, angelfire never allows remote linking and you did it anyway...

 

I agree on the triviality and mental capacity points. Just look at the size of your posts. See if you can get your pictures to work Mr. Computer Engineer I want to see your epoxy creation.

 

I'm gonna back Ed up on this one. I don't know how much time you've spent under the hood of a car, but I think the answer to this one is more experience dependant than reliant upon NASA's vortex wind state and airfoil theory. But, by all means, if you know something that I don't, clue me in. Out of curiousity, has anyone ever made a run at the strip, then taken the airfoil out to test it's effectiveness? If you have, post it.

 

I deleted the one from my signature. Enough of this bantering. Actually your probably are pretty OK guy considering all the good beer in your fridge.

 

Now, getting back to the subject of fitting the Jet Airfoil into the throttle body.
I tried fitting mine like the instructions said(in the first rib) but it doesn't reach the throttle body. This leaves a gap between the TB and the airfoil thus creating turbulence and defeating the whole purpose.
I ended up removing the TB and fitting the Airfoil by grinding it until it fit without altering the fitting of the intake duct. I then drilled a hole through the TB and into the Airfoil for a pin to hold it in place.
I don't have a picture of it but that can be arranged.

 

Thats all you guys know "how fast does it go in a straight line"...It's not all about the fastest strip ET. TPI Guy experience will get you a lot, but the education and understanding to go along with it will get you more.

 

So are you holding out on me? I want to know the big speed secret! I'm sure Ed here would like to be enlightened also ... if you e-mail me this speed secret, I will compose a book around it. We will call it "Mtccl's and TPI Guy's Speed Secrets" ... Dude, we'll make millions!

 

Ed Lock this thread. TPI Guy stay in school!!!

 

if you want to see it, try http://rain.prohosting.com/imwhom/ju...foil-bores.jpg
or just go to http://rain.prohosting.com/imwhom/junk/inj/

I don't know why remote linking isn't working, most f the time it works

 

Dude, you sound like an afterschool special. With constructive criticism like that, I just might. Why are you a helicopter pilot with a degree in Aerodynamics? Shouldn't the US government be applying your tech knowledge to something other than stinger misssiles? Why aren't you blowing up Afghans instead of blowing up Ed's epoxy airfoil.

 

mtccl - you're a ****y one, eh? I, too, am an aeronautical engineer with much book knowledge and experience. BFD. The hp gains and other numbers speak for themselves, regardless of the physics or knowledge behind them. One doesn't have to know how something works to know that it works (or doesnt work). This is called abstraction (something a computer engineer is very familiar with).

Please now, lets all stay on track and share our passion for our cars, not for our own genius. It makes for better friendships.

------------------
'89 TA - 5.7 TPI (L05, was originally a 305TPI), T5-WC, 3.08 Posi (Drum)

[This message has been edited by Mangus (edited November 01, 2001).]

 

HG,

Be happy you got it. It does make a small difference and the fact is, almost everyone here does many small mods which in the end, add up to make a big difference. Obviously Ed Maher made his own because he didn't want to give up $50, maybe he coudln't afford it. But most of us could care less about $50 and would rather buy a nicely made airfoil that we can drop in in less than 2 minutes.

Ed Maher, why do you like to flame so much? Just because that mccg guy knows more about that area doesn't mean you have to be jealous and try to discredit him.

 

from what i remember over a big debate online some place (don't remember where) Air Foils don't do a damn thing until ur pulling 500+ HP. however much airflow u have then.

------------------
- David
88' GTA 5.7L TPI MODS---> air foil, K&N, Shift Kit, 180* therm, TB bypass, Gutted CAT, Flowmaster 80 Series

http://www.geocities.com/david_angel_16

 

Yeah, i can't afford a $50 airfoil. Right. No, it's more like i'd rather put that money towards a cam and real mods than waste it on a worthless mod. I could give you perspective on where i spend my money, but i have nothing to prove to you.
You really want to know why i made an epoxy one? JUST to root out troll like you who would bash somebody for not wasting money on a worthless mod. I would just as soon have left the cavity open, but decided it'd be funnier to hear people justify their expenditure when there was a simpler way of accomplishing the same thing. This didn't start out as a flame fest, i simply added my 0.02. The people began criticizing me and i defended myself.
I didn't bash him b/c he knows more than me, i bashed him b/c he implied that we should start reading research papers on relevant effects to airfoils, which IMO would be asinie consider the NEGLIGIBLE effects of any airfoil design.

It appears that the engineers and smart people reading this post understood my point. I'm sorry that you're not on the level enough to understand what comes to us as common sense. Maybe you should get a tornado airflow management unit too, they're only about $50 and improve HP and TQ by inducing swirl in the incoming air stream. In the meantime i'm going to start accruing parts for another of my spring modfests.

 

Ed,

i paid my JET airfoil no less than 89$. i ordered it with some big exhaust stuff, and it came all the way to Finland by DHL (ouch!).

to be honest, that piece looks like crap, but if it makes any HP over 4500rpm, i'll be happy with it. the quality of casting looks like it has been done by blind monkey.

i'd have plenty of epoxy for that price


-P

------------------
Pontiac Trans Am GTA'89

CC1 GW6 G80 JG1 L98 MXO N64 WS6 822

mods: firebird '89 four spoke steering wheel and i'm still not running low 13's yet!

 

Originally posted by Ed Maher:
"Yeah, i can't afford a $50 airfoil. Right. No, it's more like i'd rather put that money towards a cam and real mods than waste it on a worthless mod."

If it's worthless, then why did you make one?????

"Maybe you should get a tornado airflow management unit too, they're only about $50 and improve HP and TQ by inducing swirl in the incoming air stream"

I got one, it added 50 hp and took half a second off my times!

 

Bugs, you little message board terrorist, where have you been? Just laying low till the heat died down a little, eh? Please Bugs, enlighten me as to your thoughts on the airfoil. Perhaps that was the reason that your 305 tpi rev'ed to 6000, and everyone elses did not? Looking forward to your reply.

Yours Truly,

TPI Guy

 

TPIguy, Why must you prove that you really are as dumb as you look? Almost anyone's tpi can rev to 6K, and everyone will admit to that. If I was as stupid as you, I would shoot myself. BTW, why do you always follow ED Maher around everywhere like your his "right hand man". Do you really think he's gonna make you a moderator for being a brown-noser??? Your pathetic.

And if you want to start another flaming match, let's do it. To me it's fun, to you it pisses you off. But just don't do it on the board as it is not fair to others. Email me if you want to respond with dog**** not related to the post.

Bugs


[This message has been edited by Bugsbunny (edited November 02, 2001).]

 

Hey HG, did your question ever get answered? well, i want to throw in my 2 cents worth. i have read that the airfoil will only add 5hp on a modded 350, and near nothing on a stock 305. at a price tag of over $50. i'll just save it for some other mod. but hey, if you want to get one because all your cool friends have one, then by all means do so. isn't this site about idea's for a tpi? if somebody wants to make one and save $50, then thats great! as for me, i'll wait until airfoils get below $20. before i buy one...best of luck, tom

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86 iroc 305tpi auto. mild cam

 

Bugsbunny, I thought we were pals? I like where you are going with your insults, but they really need to be refined a little to make them more effective, let me help you out:

“TPIguy, Why must you prove that you really are as dumb as you look?”

…This is good, but the fact remains that you don’t know what I look like, nor do 99% of the other people on the board. If I were you, I would have tried something like this:
Bugsbunny, why must you prove that you are as dumb as your screen name makes you sound.
See, this is both effective and true because not only are you totally incapable of making a point, but your screen name also conveys the fact that you spend most of you time searching for carrots, probably like to dress up like a girl on occasion, and that you are totally inept.

“If I was as stupid as you, I would shoot myself.”

This is very trite. You are grasping here, and it’s obvious. Next time I’d like to see something more along the lines of :

“If I was as stupid as you, I would hold my breath until I suffocated”

…. This would be better because, first of all, it would show the desire to kill myself because of my stupidity, second of all, it would serve as a bit of insight into how stupid I really am. You see, you can only hold your breath until unconsciousness. At that point, I think it is the hypothalamus that takes over to resume normal breathing functions. So, it would be stupid for anyone to hold their breath in attempt to kill themselves, because it’s just not possible.

“BTW, why do you always follow ED Maher around everywhere like your his "right hand man". Do you really think he's gonna make you a moderator for being a brown-noser??? Your pathetic.”

I thought this was pretty good. It showed a lot of research on your part, and I’m flattered, thank you. One thing I am going to ask you to do is to study up on your contractions. Maybe you haven’t made it through sixth grade yet, but when you do, you’ll learn that “your” indicates posession and is completely different from “you’re” which is actually the combination of “you” and the verb “are,” and that would be the appropriate word to be used when referring to me as pathetic. And actually, I am secretly plotting to overthrow Ed and take over the illustrious position of thirdgen.org moderator, but don’t tip Ed off to that. Sadly, for the time being, I am Ed’s *****.

“To me it's fun, to you it pisses you off.”

No, you don’t **** me off. I show your posts to my friends as comic relief.

I hope this helps you out. If you need a little more guidance, post away. By the way, how do you feel about airfoils? They help your TPI make power to 6000 right. What happens when you take it off? Like 5800? If you have any questions, ask me, cause hey, I’m the

TPI Guy

 

TPIguy, by the length of your response, I obviously hit a nerve. Goal accomplished. Anyways, if you wanna keep on crying, do it by email out of respect for others.

Bugs

 

Well, this one got out of hand.