1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hi Jeffery. You are correct. I will change my post as I noticed a couple of errors.

tpi user

hi lookin thru you thread again an all the hard work thats goin into this project. i saw that you were able to get 300 cfm thru those slp runners, if i read correctly. my ? is did you try flowin those runners bolted up to the first intake, while they were bolted to the heads as a complete assembly to see how much it dropped off at the intake valve, i tryin to see how that first intake handled the 300 cfm from the runners thru the base i think you were usin sportsman heads with a flow of roughly265-270 cfm i think. how much did it drop off i guess im wonderin. thanks

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

He is using Dart 200cc heads.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Right, they are the Dart 200 heads and they flowed around 280 cfm at .600" lift.

The First TPI intake manifold right out of the box with no work flowed 301cfm on port #1 which is one of the worse ones with #8 being the other. I have worked over both ports, actually all of them and brought them to a 2.2 cross sectional area where the manifold meets the head. At the runner entrance they were opened up to 1.85+ inches in diameter.

So I would expect the cfm to be around 320 after the rework. Regarding the siamesed SLP runners, with the adaptor piece the opening is at 1.85 inch with less than an inch of runner before the siamesing or plenum area begins. I would not think there would be much of a drop off in cfm with the runners attached.


No I did not have any of this flowed attached to the head. I don't think I will with the next go around because of the time involved. Even if there was a 15% drop off that would still be 272cfm. That is still enough cfm to support over 550 horsepower. I believe this is one of the reasons the motor wants to wind up so high. There is plenty of cfm available with reasonable size ports and the intake manifold is acting like a single plane.

My next and last motor build is going to be interesting. I'm going to incorporate a lot of the features of the LS1 motor in a L98. The main attraction will be the AFR 195 Competition Series heads. The flow on these heads is like an LS1 but with a 23 degree head. We are talking over 300cfm on the intake ports.

tpi user

hey thanks for the response. great work on a great setup. thats what i was wondering what that drop off was,and its not much. i didnt realize the heads flowed that much,musta forgot.ya with 270 280cfm thru the valve is just awesome,definatly why shes a revver.i know its alot of time and work on a flow bench an u def got rewarded for it. imagine if you could get just a tiny bit more out of that first into the afr heads would be sick. thanks alot for the detailed answer , some guys dont wanna give up their secrets an procedures.no doubt should be a ls1 stalker an more

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Jerrywho has a thread going on how to open up the Edelbrock TPI intake manifold. Kevin91Z already has his flowing over 315cfm. So you don't have to go to the route I did in order to get a decent flowing intake manifold.

I think the biggest stumbling block is the runners. IMHO of all the ones out there the SLP's are probably the easiest ones to work on. Well I take that back if you have a Super Ram. I think those are the easiest ones to work on.

tpi user

i didnt read your post number104 correctly, sometimes i read to fast. ok out of the box the first intake flowed 300 plus cfm on the flowbench then you worked on them some more. now you figure this thing is flowin roughly 320 cfm at the intake base exits (where it meets the cylinder head). correct? holy crap. now you add afr 300 cfm heads, with no intake restrictions,can you say 7000 rpm. and bein a typical hotrodder its never enough so now you build a 383 or a 396 with that long stroke an no air restriction im thinkin 1.4 hp per cubic inch oh ya

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thats correct on the cfm. Actually I'm going to build a 6.0 liter on the next go around. Reason for the 6.0L is I don't want to get back into my intake manifold and have to open it up. PipeMax shows my intake manifold is still good up to 6.0 liters as far as cross sectional area is concerned.

tpi user

a6.0 liter ,thats a 358? a350 bored .40 over is that what you mean

tpi user

ah ok a 360 350 bored .060 over duh. so the theory is a 195 afr head is not enough to make optimum peak horsepower on a 383 or larger? but it would make killer tq while still maitainig high hp . somone told me that a sb2 nascar head flows 380 cfm @ .600 thats on a 358 an those engines are makin 8oo hp now.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I'm going to a 4.060" bore and a 3.562" crankshaft. The heads are plenty good for a larger motor it is my intake manifold that I have "tuned" for a smaller motor. By "tuned" I'm mean cross section area, taper, and the total length of the runner. Plus they are coated.

tpi user

oh ok i wasnt sure what you meant thanks

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That will be an interesting motor... definately see 400 hp in the near future

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"That will be an interesting motor... definately see 400 hp in the near future"

Hi Orr

It should be close. What it should do is give me quite abit of power under the curve. Say from 5500rpm to 7000rpm. One of the reasons to go 6.0L is to give me some more power down low for launch. I need to get my 60" times down some. Will also need to work more on hooking up.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you dont want too much power down low. I did some more break in on my setup today and i have my drag race trim on the car, 26x10 ET streets at 18 psi cold. skinnies up front. I romped on it abit today for the first time and it will roast off the ET streets at all mph ranges below 40 mph... i dont see this car hooking on these tires

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I'm in the process of doing some things to make the car hook better. The first order of business is to make up a new transmission mount. I will be relocating it about 6 inches to the rear for a couple of reasons.

One is to make room for the rerouting of the exhaust pipe for the termination box. The next is to remove the torque arm bracket off the transmission to the mount. While doing this I can make adjustments to allow for the length of the torque arm that I want. I will also be adding a driveshaft loop.

tpi user

your not a mechanical engineer by trade are ya? some great thoughts there. hey you guys over at that shop havent flowed anyones hsr yet have you lol? i hope i dont get in trouble for this one. (long story) thanks.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Speaking of my new crankshaft I have story to tell. On another forum I was asking if using 6.125" rods and Mahle pistons would the piston pin be in the oil ring. The answer was no.

I also gave out the specifications of the new motor I was building including the new crankshaft with a 3.562" stroke. So I get a private message from Joe Sherman of Joe Sherman Racing. He says he has a crankshaft for my motor that is virtually brand new and will give me a smoking deal on it.

So today I get over to his facility to check out the crankshaft and come to find out it is out of the motor he used to win the 2002 Engine Master Challenge. It is a top of the line Scat Ultra Light crankshaft with all the bells and whistles including an oil shedding coating. After checking it out it looks brand new and was in fine shape. So I bought it to use in my motor. Hopefully the luck will follow the crankshaft.

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

Wow Allen. This new motor is getting more exciting by the day.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hi Alex

Another thing I did not realize until today after talking with Joe is my basic motor configuration is going to be almost exactly like the one Joe used for the Engine Masters. I will be using a 6.125" rod versus his 6.00" rod and I will be using a 4.060" piston versus Joe's 4.040" piston.

I could have bought the pistons too but they would not be ideal for the street. They were setup for the .043" rings. I think he used the rods on another motor.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Hey, maybe I missed it, but why are you building another motor?

Did you ever run it down the track with the 350?

350rwhp is nothing to sneeze at for a TPI 350, that motor seemed stout enough to get you into the 11's !


Also, you use pipe max alot, right? Checkout my exhaust, let me know what you think.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...t-2210s-t.html

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hi 1bad91Z

Basically I built the motor to make peak horsepower around 5800 rpm with shifting around 6200rpm. With my last dyno pull the motor was making peak power around 6350rpm and still climbing when we shut it down. Much higher than I thought it would even with a modified TPI setup. Remember I was having trouble making anymore power past 5100rpm where it peaked before.

So if we had continued the dyno pull I figure the hp would flatten out around 6500rpm and hold on to maybe 6600 or higher before it started to drop off. So to get optimum power under the curve I figured I would have to shift in the 6700 to 6800rpm range.

The motor was not built with that rpm range in mind and I felt uneasy about running it that high of an rpm at the horsepower level the motor was achieving. All I would need was for one of the pm rods to brake and the motor would be trash.

So I decided to build a short block that would handle the rpm and power. I also decided to go with the AFR heads because they already come with the light weight valves etc that I would need for a safe 7000 rpm level without valve float.

Yes I did run it down the track and shifting around 6100 rpm well below peak hp and it ran a 12.29 at 110.43. Yes I do believe the current combination would get into the 11's. The question is would the motor hold up?

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Aaahh, makes sense....

Still impressive none the less!

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Sooooo, in a nut-shell, you are going to have a legit TPI small block Chevy that is better than the engine that won the Engine Masters competition!! NICE! Gotta go, Vincent and I have an appointment over at Reher-Morrison! Later............

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"you are going to have a legit TPI small block Chevy that is better than the engine that won the Engine Masters "

Hahaha. I would not go that far. I think Joe made 604 crank HP @ 6500rpm at the Engine Masters. I'm shooting for around 500HP at the crankshaft.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

That's nothing...Kevin and I have an appointment with Scott Shariroff...later

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

It's amazing that my name, my car and my presents will make some people spend more money try to stay out in front of me. But I'm going to work with what I already have to get the car into the 11's.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hi Vincent

I have no doubt you will regain the SoCal Third Gen record for a N/A car. I think it will be close as to whether or not you get into the 11's. You are going to have to gain around 40rwhp horsepower to do it. Maybe more.

Then after your car is together Don's car will be comming on line with his major improvements and then my final configuration will be comming up. Maybe a couple of other cars in the mix to make things interesting. We should have a nice group of 11 second cars. We will sure make it interesting for the 4th gens out at the track.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

No, I'll still have a 12 second car with a 13 second driver.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Don't let your EGO get the best of you.

The benchmark that was reset is all that matters, by the way, "Who are you again?" LOL

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I'm the one that everyone talks about.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Picture of my innocent looking car going down the freeway and looking completely stock. Hahahaha. This was on the Big Bear mountain cruise this past Saturday. Quiet afew cars on the cruise and if you look carefully in the picture you can see Alex's car behind me with the modified SuperRam we just finished. He most likely will have the fastest car.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

have any pics of the runners we could see?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

good looking car

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

Has this story been finished yet????

What happened with the new motor????

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

There are pictures of the runners in this thread.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...?highlight=slp

The short block of the new motor is at the machine shop and should be ready shortly. As things usually progress slowly it might be another 4 months until the new motor is installed.

I'm toying with the idea of having the motor put on an engine dyno for break in and seeing what it will do. I would use a carb and a high flow single plane intake manifold because the modified TPI is still on the car and I drive it. As part of the dyno test I'm considering how a nice set of Dyno Don's shorty headers compare to the long tube headers used on the engine dyno.

In the meantime Dyno Don has finished rebuilding and modifying the 4L60E transmission and when he has time we will install it. Also in the process of getting ready to install the Summit aluminum so called "direct fit" radiator to handle the power and keep the motor cool. Again will be waiting on Dyno Don for the radiator install.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Where'd you get the SHP block? I was debating on going with one for my new build

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hi Orr

I purchased the block from a speed shop in the same building as Dyno Don's shop. My machine shop checked it out an said it is a nice piece. The problem is that it only takes a 2 piece crankshaft. That might be a show stopper for you.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

wow did not know that! I was quoted 1700 plus 600 in machining to have it ready but nothing about 2 piece main seal. i guess i'll stick to my current block and test its luck and maybe beef up that 6 spd i got

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Carl at CNC Blocks Northeast is selling the Dart SHP block for $1700 machined and fully checked out.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'm talking to him right now about it. If i went this way i'd opt for the 400 bore and make a 406 or something. I can reuse my crank/rods if i really wanted to.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

For the power potential of your new motor that may be the way to go anyways. Using the stock block will be a hit or miss proposition at the power level you can achieve with the turbo's.

It was a no brainer for me because I'm running with a factory cast crank in my present motor. So going to a two piece seal crankshaft was an easy decision. Plus there are a ton more options with a two piece crankshaft in the after market.

tmichaud

UNBELIEVABLE numbers. Well done!!

Based on your success, I have some questions. I have a FIRST intake in my garage right now (waiting for warmer weather - It's chilly hear in Toronto).

With the untouched FIRST runners, what RPM do you think it will peak at? would I gain much notching out the top of the runners?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The intake manifold itself is not to bad out of the box. With a little cleanup of the runners where they meet the head will help. I have not messed with the runners or measured them.

I would say anything you can do to effectively shorten the runners will help. If you can make them larger so much the better. I would siamese them in as far as I could at the top by the plenum. As far as untouched maybe peak hp would be in the low 5000rpm range.