jharms

The subject explains it all, but here's a little more detail. I have an '86 Firebird with a computer controlled carberator(cheap throttle body pretty much.) Can I take a later third generation F-body 350 TPI and put it in my car, as long as I replace the computer chip? Or is my computer completely incompatible with that of a TPI? In case it matters I have a 700R4 tranny. Or better yet, would it be possible to put like a '90 Corvette TPI in my Firebird?
Thanks!

R.O.B.

You can put either motor in, problem is the computer. You will need a new computer, chip, and the wire harness to connect it all correctly. You can go the stock or aftermarket route.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI
Gutted MAF, Ported Plenum
TB Bypass, Home made Cold Air Intake,
Edelbrock T.E.S.
48psi regulator, (Nickel method)

jharms

So I will definately need a new computer? Did they change computer set-ups along with the engines? Is that why I have to replace everything and not just the chip?

R.O.B.

Yes, they used diferent computers for carb'd, TBI cars, TPI MAF cars, and TPI SD cars.

gravitar

Not to mention the fact that your wiring harness doesn't physically have the right plugs to hook everything up on a TPI motor..

jharms

So would I just need to go to the dealer to get the wiring harness and such? Or would I be better off to go after market? If so, what do you recomend? I have NO intention of going with a stock motor, so I'd probably also have to have someone custom make a chip correct? You guys are great! Thanks for your help!

Grim Reaper

Since you have an 1990 Vette TPI, I would suggest going with SD rather than MAF. The SD ECM (7730) can be grabbed from a 3.1 V6 Cavalier from a wrecking yard relatively cheaply.

Since you are going custom prom, then it really doesn't matter for programming the eprom. You could also consider burning your own eprom as a good custom prom can cost even more than all the equipment and custom eproms seldom work right, right out of the box. Also, custom proms tend to only concentrate on WOT and do little for part throttle cruise. Also, your VSS setting will need to reflect that you are not going to be using the VSS from a SD TPI car. You need to set it to NOT "Magnetic Sensor" since your car does not have the same VSS as an SD TPI car.

For a wiring harness, you won't have much luck finding an SD TPI in a wrecking yard (too few made). But if you can, that's your cheapest route. Saving that, you can look at the wiring harness from "Painless".

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

It has just been done.... '86 carb vin H to '86 TPI vin F. Believe me when I say it was not a straight forward swap. Too many details to go into here so watch the tech articles periodicaly as I will most likely write up all the details... wont be too soon unfortunately as I am tracking down a bug. E-mail me with any fairly simple questions, I'll be happy to answer if I have the time!

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'86 TA, T-tops, T-5, 3.73, 4 wheel disks 350, compucam 2040, performer intake,SLP Headers, 3" race magnum muffler, 1.6 Comp rockers, Ripper shifter, perf. friction pads, Hypertech ignition, Earls brake hoses, Hotchkis springs, Tokico Illumina 5 adjustable shocks and struts, Lakewood panhard and trailing arms
14.50@ 97 with carb... now converted to TPI

agawam

I have just built one.I bought an 85 reman 305 with a TPI from the boneyard sold the 305 minus the injection for what I payed for it then built a 350+060 I had no harness computer or anything else ,I got a SD system from Jims Performance with everything I need except the time to complete it but it's comming along I should here it in a couple of weeks. this will be my first TPI system

jharms

I'm not liking the way this is looking, as far as work is concerned and putting in an entire new computer. First off, I don't have much of a clue about that stuff. Second I don't have the time to learn. So would I be better off, assuming I can afford it, to go to a mechanic and have them do that stuff?
Next thing: I don't even have an engine yet! I want to do this though, so I need to get an "L98" correct? Do junk yard usually have them, can I get a block from the dealer? What after market stuff should I do to it. I want to make around 350+ horse at LEAST that much torque. I plan on getting the motor built first and then worrying about that harness stuff when it comes time. Is that the wrong way to go about it? You guys are great. Thanks for the help you're providing this ignorant college student... :^)

agawam

Any smallblock will work provided the head to manifold bolts are compatable the 350 I did was a 74 block with 186 fulies and an 85 TPI setup if you use a 90 TPI use 87 or later heads or have a machine shop drill the two center bolt holes to fit earlier heads

jharms

Thanks. Now is there any L98 packages I can get. Example, I buy one package and it comes with the manifold, heads, intake, injector's etc...?

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't even think about talking to a regular mechanic... they will charge so ungodly amount and they probably wont even want to do it to begin with. So your best bet would to try a performance shop, but again $$$ and more $$$, a fuel injection specialty shop might want to do the job!

jharms

My mom works for a shop that specializes in electronics on cars. They could do it, or know someone who could. Thanks for the idea though. One last thing, before I begin this project... Do I dare make it a stroker? Or would that have adverse affects, for whatever reason, on the TPI? Also, can you turbo charge TPI's? It was my understanding that you have to custom make a turbo for a throttle body, so are TPI's the same? Would I have to custom make a turbo, or do they after market turbo's for them?

Thanks!

GeeTA

Don't let them scare ya. I just did the swap using the painless harness. It was a hair short and I had to extend a couple of the leads but it started right up without any problems. I used '85 TPI parts, an '86 computer and my engine is a '91 so I had to ream the center intake bolts. In the painless kit, they have all of the part numbers of the GM sensors, relays and accessories. I invested a few hundred bucks and bought all new GM stuff so it made a nice installation. I also noticed a very significant gain in power and another 1000 RPM of usable range. Oh, and the gas mileage is much better too. My total conversion cost me about $1000 including the used TPI setup.
Do yourself a favor. Get a book on it. ...like the "Chevy TPI fuel injection swappers guide" and read it (yeah, it's got cool pictures too). Then, buy the harness with it's book so you can order the recommended parts, then just do it!

....but be sure to have something else to drive for a couple of weeks!

-TA

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'82 TA "FRANKENBIRD" - built with various F-Body parts from '82 to '96.
CURRENT: '91 305, '96 T-56 6 speed, 3.42 POSI, '89 WS6, '86 TPI, SLP 1 3/4" headers
SOON: 350, Trick Flow TW heads, GM-HOT cam kit, PBR disc

okfoz

Again, another post that is..well, off topic.


As for the topic at hand, I just did the EXACT conversion that you are thinking of doing. I own an 87 Formula that HAD the computer controled 4bbl carb, and swapped it to TPI. If you want to KNOW what you really need to do, to do it right, I have a journal on my web site.

http://www.3rdgenformula.com After the Splash page, half way down on the main-menu page on the left click on "Modifying your Formula"

In hindsight, the job is pretty straight forward. While I was doing it, though, I came across alot of *@#$% I have to change that TOO? I short, if you do the job your self, you will probably know your car better (inside-out) than most of the people that visit this web site on a regular basis. This is NOT a weekend job to do it right, I do not believe in cutting corners.

RECOMMENDATION: If you want to do the job right, Some salvage yards will sell a car to you, if you can, go this route, it cost me $800 +tax for the car and it had 99% of what I needed, no guessing that way. Take it off one car, put it back on the other car. I know RIGHT NOW, where there is an 86 camaro with running TPI that he is selling for $600.

RECOMMENDATION II: Since you have a firebird, get a firebird to take parts off of. I bought an 83 camaro ONLY because it had an 87 305 TPI from a Trans AM in it. I would have taken a 350 if I found one, trust me.

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87 Formula Yellow/Black
Engine & Transmission
.040 over 5.0 converted to TPI, 9.5:1 Compression, SLP Cam Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP 3" cat-back exhaust, K&N Airfilter, Modified Stock cold air intake, Ported & polished Stock TPI intake, Holley Adjustable Fuel Press regulator, most of the Free mods.
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit, Aluminum Driveshaft, 3.73 Posi gear
Suspension & Brakes:
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels, KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts, Hotchkis strut tower brace, SSM frame connectors, Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Interior:
Custom Leather interior, CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces, Kenwood Receiver, Pioneer Speakers, Kicker Substations, Kenwood 10 Disk Changer, Pioneer Amp.

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

OK guys I didn't say it was impossible, but it will try your nerves. I know that I had to take apart some the dashboard harness to mate it to the TPI... Is the painless harness changed from stock TPI to fit the carb harness?? If so that will save you so many headaches... for instance... my fuel pump wire had to be changed. The ALDL wires were completely different and I actually took apart the TPI dash harness. There are 2 wires that have to be added to empty spots on the fuse box, the supply igntion to the the injectors. All I'm saying is that it isn't a walk in the park, and do your homework... and don't trust anyone unless you know you can!

jharms

I'm actually leaning less on going to a TPI now, because of the headache and work, and just sticking with a slightly computer controlled carb. How much does the computer control my carb. anyway? Anyone know? I plan on getting a 305, I found a stroker kit for them, and then getting a Holley or Edelbrock matched system set, heads, intake, cam, carb. ets. and going that route. Get out around 350+ horse and blow the socks off of some of the new Z28's! And then when they ask after I've whooped them, "watcha got under the hood?" I'll say I've got a 305! (You know, just to make them feel like crap.) Oh, that'll be fun! Am I crazy for wanting this?