Gta-Paladin

The tpis site says 95 hp on a bone stock 350 somehow i doubt this, does anyone have any real world experience with this on a Stock motor with exhaust?

PETE

iTrader: (1)

you are not looking at the fine print it says 95hp above 5800rpm's compared to a tpi engine which makes i dont know let's say absolutely positivley no hp above 5800(i think maybe 100 tops)that's where the 95hp comes from they put the peak at a different level than the tpi

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87 trans am,gm crate 350(4 bolt mains 10to1),L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,slp 1 5/8 headers,3in.y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,afpr,as&m ported plenum,gutted airbox,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt(11.9in. brakes),ed wright's fastchip,relocated iat sensor,160 fan switch,tb bypass,accel supercoil,cap& rotor,hollowed maf,slp 3in. catbcak.

EVRYTHING IS FOR SALE WITH THIS CAR (EXTRA ENGINE,TPI INTAKES,ECM'S,ETC.
GETTING OUT OF THE 3RD GEN MARKET BEST OFFERS
CONSIDERED

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

Exactamundo. Companies will often market their parts as being superior to everyone one else, and they cannot lie about their advertising. So they BS their way around it. They'll post their claims, but do the tests on an engine tuned to provide maximum gain from their part. Sorta like TPIS claim on the ZZ9. While this cam is a very good piece, there's no way it can 'be proven to reduce ET's by 8 tenths of a second'. That's 80 HP. Toss on a Miniram, AFR heads, exhaust, tuning, and restrict it all with a peanut cam, then swap to your ZZ9. Bingo! Your avertised 80 HP. Usually at an RPM the restrictive part is most restrictive at.

I like to take everyone's claims and divide by 2. Then you get a more predictable, reliable number. I don't rely on claims, but on experience, either personal or not. Sorry I'm dragging this out, but many people ask, and when dealing with thirdgens, this is something to keep your eyes open for.

Gta-Paladin

So any idea as to how much i should expect?

BadSS

Here’s how a few intake/runner systems effected a warmed over 355 with "old style" 64 cc GM heads, Edelbrock RPM cam, and headers

Performer RPM/750 --323HP @ 5250 / 353 TQ @ 4250... Ave-256HP/341TQ

RPM/Holley PJ TBI -- 333HP @ 5000 / 367TQ @ 4500... Ave-264HP/349TQ

Stock TPI ---------- 296HP @ 4750 / 367TQ @ 3250... Ave-248HP/336TQ

AS&M “ported” LTR -- 328HP @ 4500 / 403TQ @ 4000... Ave-273HP/366TQ

Accel Super Ram ---- 329HP @ 4750 / 378TQ @ 4000... Ave-260HP/347TQ

TPiS Miniram ------- 328HP @ 5250 / 355TQ @ 4500... Ave-257HP/341TQ


Midrange power takes a real beating by moving from the long runners to a Miniram. Even with a warmed over engine you’re only looking at 9 horses and 5 lb/ft of torque. I would expect less a gain,, or possibly an average power loss on a stock engine. On anything short of a large cube,, full assault engine a miniram is not a very good horsepower per dollar investment,,, in my opinion.


[This message has been edited by BadSS (edited July 30, 2001).]

Gta-Paladin

I'm just waiting untill, i getsome afr or trickflow heads.So should i even bother installing it? or will it definately chew at my hp/tq?

Gta-Paladin

So that being said... Should i work from the bottom of the engine out? Or from the top in? I'll have money to spend.. but if i dont spend it quckly on performance parts (due to the fact that it's already been ordered) i'll probably waste it away.... im bad like that

BadSS

Sorry GTA,, I didn't realize you had bought it yet. If I had one,,, I'd bolt it on. Power under 2500 rpm is not effected much at all,, it's just you'll loose that strong TPI midrange pull and gain high end pull with the Miniram. As long as the shortblock is in good shape, I'd continue with the top down approach and get the heads and cam next,, then a torque converter

Guest

95hp.
Yea, and their fuel pressure regulator adds 154 ft-lbs of torque. (Anyone still have that ad?)

The cars I have seen and know of with minirams are definitely quick. Peak numbers and average numbers dont tell the story at the track, usually what you really need to know is so hidden you'd almost never find it. About the only reason I would consider not running a miniram is possibly a loss of mileage, but I havent done enough checking to see if thats even the case.

Gta-Paladin

Oh, i havn't purchased it yet... I was just inquiring as to what would be the best idea.. Sorry if i was unclear.
I've been looking at a lot of builds lately and im leaning towards the miniram, despite all of the garbage these people try and convince me of. Also im wondering about their new mr 3 for the new GM heads... are these heads even worth spending the money on.. i mean they definately dont flow as nice as afr's right?

BadSS

Ok,, now I see. It looks like you really want the miniram and want validation on your choice. Just in case you’re on a fact finding mission though, here’s what I know from my own experiences. Most of the folks that I personally know with a Miniram slowed down in the quarter when they moved to it, but liked the gain they got from “a kick” or “roll”. Only after a change to steeper gears and a higher stall torque converter did they get back what they lost in the quarter-mile. The cars seem a lot faster in that after the gears and converter they run as quick (one a little quicker) as they did before in the quarter and run like stink from a kick. I don’t think they’re properly tuned and could take advantage of a larger cam if they (or I) ever learn how to program the EPROMs. So,, overall, I do think their minirams made for a more balanced car and now fit the typical “hot rod” mentality better than say a typical long runner set up will / did. Plus,, when you consider a good long runner intake and runners would cost most folks $700 (if they can’t port their stock base and find SLP runners on sale for $200),, then the miniram may not be that bad a “investment” - especially if you see yourself building a maximum effort small block now,, or later on. You sure would not have to buy another induction system later. I personally think if your heads flow 260cfm or less and especially if you’re building a street driven 350,, a long tube runner set up to me is much more fun to drive with the midrange response and will run just as well in the quarter mile as the miniram and do it with less gear and converter. If the heads flow more than 260 cfm,, you have a larger cubic engine,, or you just want that power from a kick,, then the miniram can deliver impressive results. It’s all about what YOU want. If you really haven’t made your mind up, I seriously considered the Holley fuel injection MPFI system’s manifold and applying the GM electronics to it. Fortunately for my pocket book and sanity,, the ported GM base and SLP runners are working just fine – in my application,, for what I want the car for.

Look into the Canfield 195s. I've used them in similar builds as the AFR 195's with near identical results for hundrends less.

Gta-Paladin

BadSS, thanks for your posts. I've been looking into the Miniram for a while now, i always liked it i dont know why. Traxion's soon to be 11's didnt stray me much infact im pretty sure they lured me even closer in. Now, if the secret in the miniram is prom tuning im pretty sure i wont fair well... untill i learn how to tune that is. The article with the Car Craft and new miniram III with fast burns sort of re-established the faith so to speak with this system. Unless it's just a big marketing sham by myron crotwell (excuse spelling). I plan on having an 11 second car... I dont mind sacrificing speed at all right now as long as the combo works out in the end.
What are the dfi systems like?

RBMZ28

that sums it up.yuor last post gave a goal your trying to achieve.With a stout 350 you will not be disapointed with the m.r.Cost is high,but you will never have to buy another intake.If your really serious learn to burn your owm prom(approx.$250.00)both are well worth it.I thoroughly enjoy mine!

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87 IROC WITH 409(.040 OVER400) MINIRAM,NOS(125HP)TRICK FLOW PORTED HEADS,C.C.CAM,FLOWTEK HEADERS,CUSTOM PROM,MODIFIED 700R TRANS,2400 B&M CONVERTER,3.73POSI REAREND.
LOOKING FOR THE 11 SEC. ZONE.current ets.12.39@114 mph

TRAXION

The key to a fast car is balance. That balance includes PROM tuning ... but, in all honesty, that is the cheapest part of the equation. TPI cars are fairly balanced from the factory. When you decide to add a MiniRam and push the powerband much higher in the RPM range then you must redo the balance that GM provided straight from the factory. This means changing almost everything that GM gave the TPI car: heads, cam, exhaust, torque converter, gears, etc.

The MiniRam loves high RPMs. Thus, you NEED to cam this manifold appropriately along with running a set of heads that will work with this setup. Although people have suggested running a MiniRam on a stock TPI engine - I would not do it. Since not many people can buy all the balanced parts at one time I would suggest saving the MiniRam until last. First do the heads. Don't skimp - cylinder heads is where most of your power is made. Then do the cam along with a siamesed base intake (since its free and will help you until you can afford the MiniRam). Have your PROM burning equipment ready because this is where you will need it. The big cam will have you running rediculously rich at idle. Then do a Torque converter swap almost immediately after the cam swap because the cam swap will have REALLY hurt your lowend torque. Finally - do the MiniRam. Realize that there are other mods surrounding this 'level-ized' approach: Bigger injectors, headers, catback, throttle body, roller rockers, roller timing chain, ignition mods, gears, blablabla. It has taken me 4 years to get to where I am .... and I am still not done. I still need to get my exhaust fully upgraded (SLP 1-5/8" headers don't cut it for a high-RPM setup) as well as some other things. It is a slow process that takes a lot of patience. There will be disappointment along the way since you are changing things based on a 'level-ized' approach. I actually went SLOWER after adding the MiniRam. It wasn't until I swapped my injectors and did more tuning that I ended up going faster.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org