MelloYello

I have recently decided to upgrade my stock TPI with a Miniram II. I have become frustrated with my horrible 3 piece, 36 bolt manifold and have decided to go with the Miniram's one piece, 12 bolt design. My car is not an everyday driver, so as long as I can cruise the local strip or to the mall every once in a while, I am willing to take some performance hit. However, I also plan on upgrading from 1.5 rocker arms to 1.6 ratio and adding a vigilante 2800 stall. I know I should go with a .540" lift cam with 230* duration and AFR 190cc heads (basically pattern off of TRAXION's car) is the way to go, but I want to upgrade a little at a time, and I dont plan to swap heads until the motor needs a rebuild (currently has 90,XXX on the clock). How would these changes affect my car? Would I need to reprogram my PROM? My timeslip with my 3.23 gears and 200 lbs of stereo:

60' - 2.104
330 - 5.993
1/8 - 9.253
MPH - 75.32
1000 - 12.069
1/4 - 14.445
MPH - 94.99

*times obtained at Gateway International Raceway near St. Louis, MO at 25.49" of Hg.

Thanks guys, u are great. All help is appreciated.


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1990 Firebird Formula 350 speed density TPI; K&N, air foil, throttlebody coolant bypass, underdrive pullies, MSD 6AL, MSD HEI coil, 8.8mm wires, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Hypertech Thermomaster chip, 160* thermostat, fan switch, B&M stage 2 shift kit, Edelbrock 1&5/8 headers, gutted dual cats, Flowmaster 80 series muffler, 3.73 posi rear end

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

You really shoud get some heads before you get the Mini-Ram. When I did mine I put in Trick flow 23* heads and a TPIS ZZ9 cam W/the Mini-Ram. I also put in a SLP 2500 stall. I did notice a little loss on the low end but I think the stall made up for most of it. But now I LOVE the power it makes now!!

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Convertible, L98, Mini-ram, ZZ9 cam, Comp Cams 1.6/1.52 steel roller rockers, Trick Flow 23* heads, K&N's with chopped airboxes, March underdive pulleys, Edelbrock ceramic coated TES, Flowmaster cat-back exhaust, Dynomax high flow converter, Accel box & coil, Taylor 409 wires, Fastchips custom chip, MAC sub frame connecters, Lakewood LCA & Adj. Panhard rod, SLP 2500 stall, 3.23 rear gears, 1LE aluminum driveshaft, white face gagues, and NOS!

Guido

You should DEFENITLEY think about heads and cam with that intake. If you can afford to do it all at once then go ahead and do it. At least a cam if not the heads...

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-86 IROC
S-Trim, Speed Pro, AFR
this years goal: 10.50 @ 130+ mph
-=ICON Motorsports=-

MelloYello

Thanks for the info, Randy. I agree with you, but I'm a 19 year old college student who cant afford his AFR 190s. I dont want to mess with my current intake any longer, or any LTR setup for that matter, and I'd feel like I was wasting money if I just went to another LTR setup instead of the Miniram that I would end up buying anyway. I am really interested in what I could do to increase the driveability of such a setup in addition to a Vigilante 2800 stall, 1.6 rockers, and the 3.73s I have. Could simply adjusting fuel pressure give me what I'm looking for, or would I need to learn to burn my own proms? Once again, I drive an '87 Fiero in pristine condition on rainy days or when the Firebird is "out of service", so as long as my car can cruise, even without being a street animal, that is fine. If taunting becomes too much, I can buy a nitrous system. Thanks for your help again!

MelloYello

You are right, Guido. The more I think about it, the more I want to do it! I know I want AFR 190s, but if I dont swap heads and stick with my stock L98s, what cam would be good? I know the stock heads are restrictive, so I know I cant go too big.

Out of curiosity, exactly how hard is it to swap heads on our cars? I have never done major work on a car and only have basic hand tools. If it is not too hard, I will do the AFRs - save - put in a BIG cam - save -install miniram - save - install a rev kit - save - start programming my own PROMs, etc.

I want to do things right the first time, and hopefully have my car in the 12s by next summer on my stock bottom end

However, I still plan on just adding the Miniram right now, as I cannot stress how much I dislike the LTR setup. Keep the input coming, guys...I am torn!

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I just ran your combo thru engine analyzer, and only picked up 10 hp over the stock intake with no other changes. With a 58mm TB, total gain was 30 hp. Real world gains may be a little higher due to chip tuning.

That intake needs more fuel and air to perform well, but if you are going to pull it, it may as well be for the miniram.

MelloYello

88gta383: that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Was that setup with the 1.5 rr or with the 1.6 rr? at what rpm was that power developed (torque, hp peak and average)? Any other comments? Please?
Also..someone get in touch with badass355tpi and have him e-mail me at kylebridges1982@hotmail.com thanks!

PETE

iTrader: (1)

witth the addition of them the higher stall converter the tranny is gonna feel a little slushy you'll need a shift kit to balance it out go with the miniram it's your car and i would do it to except for the friggin cost i laid out for a hi flo base runners ported plenum etc.WHY IS THIS CRAP SO DAMN EXPENSIVE FOR TECHNOLOGY THAT IS SUPPOSEDLY OUT OF DATE?

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87 trans am 350 L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,headers,y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,ported plenum,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt,ads strip chip,relocated iat sensor,hollowed maf

14.10@97mph w/2.01 60' 4SALE anyone want her?

MelloYello

I have a B&M stage 2 shift kit listed in my sig. my car jumps into gear HARD and Shifts HARD. I know I need a higher stall anyway because of how hard it shifts into gear and how hard it is to hold it at a light. Thanks for your input, by the way, as ALL info is very welcomed by me. Thanks again.

Kyle

TRAXION

FYI - I ran 12.2's with a CC Xtreme 218/224 cam. I only recently installed the 230 cam and I do not have new times yet. It takes a special person to install the 230 cam. It is definitely a big cam. I only pull 70kPa at idle A good match for an everyday driver would be a 224/230 Xtreme cam on a 112LSA.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

MelloYello

Thanks, TRAXION! I was hoping to hear from you. Your car is sweet and I'm patterning my car after yours (although not as extreme as you plan on going).

Anyway...I decided on installing a cam with the miniram to boost power. Would the CC 224/230 112* lobe seperation Xtreme cam work well with my stock heads and miniram? If not, what cam would you recommend? Will I need new springs and retainers or rocker arms?

Thanks a million more times for all your help, guys. I both appreciate and respect you for the time you spend answering my questions.

Kyle

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

If the cam has more than .490 lift, than yes you will need new springs. Maybe you could take the heads off and get some pocket porting and a 3 angle valve job done. That should help 30hp or so. Or is downtime not a option for you?

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Convertible, L98, Mini-ram, ZZ9 cam, Comp Cams 1.6/1.52 steel roller rockers, Trick Flow 23* heads, K&N's with chopped airboxes, March underdive pulleys, Edelbrock ceramic coated TES, Flowmaster cat-back exhaust, Dynomax high flow converter, Accel box & coil, Taylor 409 wires, Fastchips custom chip, MAC sub frame connecters, Lakewood LCA & Adj. Panhard rod, SLP 2500 stall, 3.23 rear gears, 1LE aluminum driveshaft, white face gagues, and NOS!

MelloYello

Sadly, removing my heads is not an option but so I need a cam that will work with the stockers. About cam lift, the 224/230 Xtreme cam (grind # XR276HR) has .503 intake lift and .510 exhaust lift with 1.5 rockers, so I guess I will need new springs. I just want to know if that cam will work well with my stock heads and miniram (I have 3.73s and will get a vigilante 2800 stall as mentioned earlier). Will the cam sound choppy? lope? just curious. Sorry for all the questions, but I just need to know

Thanks again
Kyle

TRAXION

Well, I should have read the post more in-depth. The stock heads are crap (as I am sure that you know). Putting a big cam in a motor with stock heads will create LESS power. Bigger cams are designed to create more horsepower at higher RPMs. The 224 cam is way too big of a cam for stock heads. When I say 'big' I mean that its powerband is too high for the stock heads. If you plan to run the stock heads with the MiniRam then you'll have to install a puny weak camshaft. Go NO higher than a 218 cam ... however, IMHO that cam is still way to big for stock heads. I would consider getting something similar to the 212/218 Xtreme cam. Please realize that you won't run fast. Bolting the MiniRam onto stock heads will seriously limit the power you can make. Unfortunately, using the stock heads demands that you use a cam that will work with and not against those heads. I would recommend not installing a cam until you can afford a new set of heads.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

MelloYello

Thanks for the info, TRAX! Will trickflows work pretty much as well as the AFRs with the 224/230 cam? I am on a budget, so the trickflows look very interesting. What do you recommend? If I am unsatisfied, I might just slap on the Miniram and save for AFRs. I would love to hear from you guys on this.

Thanks
Kyle

TRAXION

I don't know anyone running the TFs with the MiniRam. But, if you are on a tight budget then the TFs aren't a bad idea at all. They can make good power. They aren't AFRs but they are a HECK of a lot better than stock heads. Just depends on your budget. But, keep in mind that the 224/230 cam and the MiniRam will give you a high powerband. Shifting will be close to 6500. Thus, you want to keep this in mind. Running higher RPMs requires special stuff if you want to do it right ... titanium retainers and chromoly pushrods IMHO are a must. Swap out your stock lifters for a set of CC 'R' lifters too. Pushing the RPM range up high requires spending the extra bucks to make your motor work up in that range.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

JoelOl75

Your stock heads will have to come out for machine work also with over .480" of lift. Might as well have the bigger springs put in and the guide needs to be milled and the rocker studs should be tapped for screw ins.

Randy92Z

iTrader: (3)

Im running the Trick Flow 23* heads with a Mini-Ram. They work great together. I got my Mini-Ram ported to the same size as my Trick flow ports. Fel-Pro #1205. But then again, TPIS ports all there Mini-Ram's to the port size of the heads your running.

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Convertible, L98, Mini-ram, ZZ9 cam, Comp Cams 1.6/1.52 steel roller rockers, Trick Flow 23* heads, K&N's with chopped airboxes, March underdive pulleys, Edelbrock ceramic coated TES, Flowmaster cat-back exhaust, Dynomax high flow converter, Accel box & coil, Taylor 409 wires, Fastchips custom chip, MAC sub frame connecters, Lakewood LCA & Adj. Panhard rod, SLP 2500 stall, 3.23 rear gears, 1LE aluminum driveshaft, white face gagues, and NOS!

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

Mello, you never said exactly what your intended purpose of the car was, 12's, 13's daily driver, etc?

Maybe all you really need is some nitrous and some intake and exhaust mods?

What is your budget?

MelloYello

Well, guys...
As it turns out, I came across an offer I couldn't refuse when I found out that my local performance parts shop found an edelbrock base/runner setup for my car. My cost was my old runners and base manifold plus $325 for this brand new condition system. I apologize because I feel like I wasted your time...I know that everyone could benifit from what was discussed here and whatnot, but I still feel guilty.

Anyway, I will just save the extra $$$ and buy a nitrous system

Thanks again for all your time! I think of you all as brothers....with the occasional sister

Later
Kyle

P.S.- any tips, suggestions, comments on my system? I will be using stock heads/cam with a ported plenum, the afforementioned edelbrock base and runners, and 1.6 ratio rockers in addition to the mods in my sig. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by MelloYello (edited June 12, 2001).]

MelloYello

Go here to my new post for the latest:
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/003061.html