I went in for my emissions testing and found out that it was the last time that I would ever have to go for emissions and now that I don't need any of that clean air junk, what can I do for more power, weight savings, or making my car sound better. I want to take out the A/C. The whole sha-bang! I mean compressor, drier, condenser, everthing. I'll flip through the Haynes manual to see how to do it without F-ing up anything. What can be done and how can I do it?

 

What year car do you have?

 

It's a 89 firechicken with a 350 tpi. It's a autotragic with cats which I should remove, that wouldn't throw the SES light on would it?

 

Yes you can remove the A/C fairly easily and replace it with a 1LE A/C delete pulley.
The smog stuff, however, is a federal thing and must remain on the car according to federal law. The only thing the computer checks is the EGR.

 

Emissions guy told me that I could pull off the smog stuff and the cats because that is for emissions and my car is exempt. That is what the guy said so I was wondering how to take that stuff off and what gains could be expected. Cats will come off later. Emissions said I still have to pass for the noise the car makes because an officer can give me a ticket for the car being too loud. That really sucks, so much for exhaust dumps. What can I do for my car now?

 

There are no gains, as the emissions stuff with tuned port engines is advanced enough to not affect horsepower much. If your cat was clogged due to being really rich, you'd feel a difference if you removed it, but that's about it. Removing the air pump and its lines only cleans up the engine bay to make it easier to change the spark plugs.
I dunno why a smog check tech would tell you that. Federal law is more important than what he says.

 

Say, where are you at? (what state). Also, why is your car exempt? I'd like to know.

Emission stuff is really not that big of a deal. One of the guys in our club passed emissions without air hooked up at all. Ofcourse he failed the visual, yet the car passed with flying colors. Removing the air pump would net you some gains. Weight wise, its removing the weight off of the right part of the car. Also, sometimes these air systems tend to pump more air than needed (more like pumping air when it shouldn't) thus making you run more rich. That usually happens when they go bad..

I'd remove it and go with the appropriate belt. The procedure is described in the tech articles on this website.

Other emissions equimpment is neglegent and not worth your time. Don't mess with the EGR, it actually helps you with gas mileage etc...
AC is not something thats smog and could use removal.

 

I lost power when the stock cat was replaced with an off road pipe.

I gained power when the high flow cat went in.

 

The air pump is spinning all the time the engine is running. Its the two solenoids that direct the air where it is suppposed to go. If the solenoids are bad or leaking, it will pump air where its not needed and might cause a problem. But that is a rare thing.

 

xlwhellraiser, I'm in IL. On the emissions paper thing, the thing they give you at the testing center, it says I'm exempt. No cars 95 and older will be tested from now on! My car being an 89, I fall in that category. I don't know why but when I dig out that paper, I'll let you know what it says.

 

Good enough reason to get rid of it.

 

That just means you're exempt from having to go in every year, not from having to keep the stuff on your car. EPA fines are steep, but at the same time I don't really ever recall hearing of anyone getting caught much less knowing anyone who's gotten caught.

I'm not going to rag on you about the environment, that'd be the pot calling the kettle black tbh and I feel that a lot of it is sensationalist panic and more than a lot of it defies logic. The idea that what equipment you have on your vehicle is more important than what comes out of the tail pipe is rediculous, and that's the way that a lot of the laws are set up.

 

Too much money causes problems too, why dont you get rid of that? Send it to me.


Look at it this way: Eventually, enough tree-hugging liberal hippies are going to complain loud enough to the tree-hugging liberal politicians, and they are going to try to pass laws that require you to get your car's emissions checked. And if they see, smell, or hear cars on the road with the emissions equipment removed, that will give them more of a reason to pass these laws "for the environment" and to "stop global warming." Dont be the guy that ruins it for everyone. Its already happened here in California and New York and New Jersey and its happening in other places around the country. Your area could be next.
We here in SoCal are running cars that put 350 horsepower to the rear wheels, get 25+ miles per gallon, and pass that tough CA smog check easily with everything hooked up. If we can do it, so can you.

 

Maybe I'll leave the smog stuff on but the A/C has to go! If you were to strip out everything, I was told that it equals arounds 100 pounds. Time to take that junk that don't work, and take it out. On my emissions paper it says:
Congratulations! This vehicle meets Illinois Emissions testing standards.
Please note: In accordance with section 13C-15 of the vehicle emissions inspection law of 2005, this pre-1996 model year vehicle is now exempt from testing.

So basically, it means that I'm done with that darn testing junk!

 

This post may well me interpreted as flaming but it is by no means intended as such.

Title of this post should be “Mega Emissions!” as you seem hell bent on removing equipment you keep referring to as junk when you obviously have no understanding of what it is, what it does or how it works. Stripping emission controls off of a car just for the sake of removal is irresponsible. It is not junk at all and serves a very valuable service in that it curbs emissions enough that we are still allowed to drive our cars.

Federal law regulates emission controls, not state laws and while your state no longer tests for them it does not exempt you from having them. State law can add additional (Kalifornia) restrictions but it cannot loosen them. If mandatory emission controls had not been implemented when they were, we would be living in a much different place. Imagine the yellow cloud over Dallas, LA, or any other densely populated area being 10 or more times worse. The older muscle cars were cool but pumped enough poison out the tailpipe to kill a small army every time they started. The emissions guy that implied you could or should remove those devices needs to be seriously reprimanded and/or fired (IMHO).

There is little to no gain to be had by removing emission controls. In fact, you may well decrease your power and mileage by changing the way they operate. While there are exceptions, very few apply to a legitimate street vehicle.

Every year conversation starts again regarding the initiation of “Clunker Laws”. Clunker laws would make it illegal to operate and in some cases own older cars, especially those producing elevated emissions levels. While these laws have mostly been defeated so far they are gaining in popularity as some of the vehicles in question produce as much emissions as 100 modern cars. While the supporters of these laws drive a new car every year or two and can’t comprehend why folks like us like to drive these old “clunkers”, they will use our own words as ammunition against us. When evidence can be presented that a significant number of these older cars have had even their relatively primitive emission controls defeated, it may well be statements like “remove this emission junk” that drives the final nail in the classic car coffin.

Realize I am referring to street cars not trailer queens (cars that have to be transported to the track on a trailer). While these (off road) vehicles are currently exempt that is subject to change as well as their emissions output is a contributing factor in the big picture. The EPA among others are addressing the emissions produced by small engines (lawn mowers, weed eaters, generators, etc.) as you may have noticed the elimination of the choke on newer small engines.

The good news is that E85 has an octane rating of 100-105 making it a kick butt performance fuel as well as a very clean one. If E85 does succeed as a long term replacement fuel (somebody will need to come up with a free energy source for making it), our cars can be programmed to burn it. It’s like getting super unleaded for cheaper than regular unleaded. While the whole E85 thing is a sort of scam (it takes almost as much energy to make a gallon of ethanol as you get out of it). The benefits to a performance car are significant (cleaner and higher octane rating).

 

Oil doesn't come out of the ground readily in most cases. Takes a lot of energy to transport, refine etc etc. etc. it. Even "free" energy like solar is usually not truly free, those electrical cells use tons of nasty chemicals in their production since it's doped P-N Junctions.

That being said, I'd love to see a vehicle that produced 100X the emissoins of a modern car when tuned up and running properly even without the emissions stuff in tact. I'm reminded of a Hot Rod or Car Craft where they took an inline 6 Pontiac and a 98 supercharged firebird, the 6 nearly passed the OBD-II specs. Sure it's less cubes, but at the same time it was also 30 or 40 years of tech between em. The other thing I will say is that emissions tech has brought no small amount of innovation to the masses we probably wouldn't really have otherwise in our cars or would have to spend lots of $ for. These include electronic ignition and the various incarnations of EFI that we have.

 

E85 is a sham, as well as biodiesel made from ethanol made from corn. Now, if we're talking taking waste oil and filtering it to make biodiesel, then that's a great freaking idea. Too bad the only people that do it are people who make their own B100.

But besides that, the AIR system really is a sham. But the car is designed to run with it. The cat is a 3-way with oxidation. You'd need to buy a universal jobbie that's designed to be three way without oxidation to prolong cat life without the AIR pump. Technology today allows the removal of the air system without compromising emissions gasses. You can get a 3-way on summit universal fit, have a muffler shop neck one end for a slip fit and then weld on a flange attached to a straight pipe so you can make a "bolt-in" cat that works without AIR.

Don't get me wrong, if they did AIR right, it would work, but they don't do it right. When AIR originally debuted, they had it adding a LOT more air to the exhaust, and it really did clean the exhaust of all hydrocarbons. The downside? Manifold temperatures shot up to the point of having them glow red. So they had to meter down the air injected to the point where it still slightly functioned, but no where near what it could do. Newer cats don't need this (as long as they don't require oxidation!), as they filter all of that crap without needing the extra air.

I am going to remove my air system and replace my cat with a 3-way without oxidation. I do believe in helping the environment, but that AIR crap in my engine bay is quite possibly the largest pain in the *** of owning this car. They can make the interior great and comfortable, and design engines that are works of art, but they couldn't streamline the bloody AIR system? Makes me pissed. Oh, and if you remove air, you should change the computer, as it adds 100mv to the O2 reading to compensate for the extra oxygen injected.

[/rant]

Also, do you think cars create the most pollution? Do you seriously believe that internal combustion engines are the reason that there's a hole in the Ozone? If so, you must be dumber than your post implies. There are factories that pump out more pollution in a hour than my car does in a year. And thanks to Big Brother Bush who essentially ended all of Clinton's emissions controls on factories they continue to do so, while the EPA blames internal combustion engines.

[/rant2]

 

Yes *WE* know the problem isnt our cars, but the politicians are looking for scapegoats to make it look like they are doing something about pollution or global warming. So we, because we are a small group with little money, get railroaded and shafted with draconion emissions rules intended to make us give up our cars and buy newer ones.
By removing the emissions controls from your car, you are effectively telling the politicians that our cars ARE the reason for air pollution, and gives them ammunition to write more BS laws against us. That's how they see it.

 

Didn't mean for that to sound focused at everybody, it was at TexasSilhouette, with his comment of "pumped enough poison to kill a small army." Because there are bigger problems than old muscle cars.

I think that we should be allowed to upgrade our emissions. If I get a three way cat that functions without oxidation, then I shouldn't need AIR injected into my cat, and air injected into the manifolds doesn't do very much because of the way they designed it. It just frustrates me that we have to have the stock setup unless we do an engine swap.

 

If your state only has a sniffer test, ditch the AIR. I ditched it on mine and my car passed the sniffer test with FLYING colors. Dont listen to these people who tell you that removing the AIR will make your car fail a sniffer test. All the AIR pump does it dilute your exhaust with clean air. It doesnt actually make the car make less pollution.

 

air injected into the manifolds helps to continue the burning process, which aides in reduction of tail pipe emissions & adds heat to the exhaust gas to help the cat light off quicker from a cold start.
cats designed to use fresh air do benefit from the added air. in both cases, it doesn't take a lot of added fresh air to see results.

TexasSilhouette, isn't completely right on the part about an old car producing as much as 100 modern cars.
i have seen properly running OBD2 cars have tail pipe numbers of 0.0 CO, 0 HC, & NOx under 10 PPM.
now take an old muscle car, or most any old pre cat car for that matter, CO of 1.5+, HC of 400+, NOx of 1500 or higher is common. toss a lumpy cam in it & watch the HC go toward 1000.
with proper tuning, you can get those numbers down. but how many people have access to a 5 gas?
still, even with CO of 1.0, HC of 200 & NOx of 800, your no where near what a modern car does.

i am a state certified emissions repair mechanic & i do state inspection. this was the last year for my car to get tested, it has & will continue to have emissions related parts on it, including a new set of cats later this year.
and no, i do not believe mankind is responsible for the so called "global warming"

 

This reminds me of the current laws with r22 refridgerant. Banned it because it distroys the ozone. Yet it is heavier then air, it gets 3 feet off the ground then settles. But somehow it goes 30 miles in the air. R134 the replacment caused cancer and all types of health problems. Also, more pollution is released making energy efficient cars then we spew in a year. The enviroment thing is just a buzz word for Democrats for next year election. If the enviroment was so important Clinton would have changed gas makeup when he was in office rather then waiting 6 years after he got out. Gas shoots up, gives his wife a chance 8 years later.

 

I installed a 84 LG4 into my father in laws 86 Firebird a couple years ago. When I did I put all the Smog equipment back in it. He took it to the inspection station and it passed the state test. He then removed the "AIR" system from his car and ran it very little for the next 1 1/2 years.

This spring rolled around and it was time for his car to be inspected again. He took the test and failed. At that point he got all worried and couldn't figure out what to do. I told him to put the crap back on - he threw it away. So I told him to put some Super unleaded in the car along with a bottle of Intake system cleaner and burn threw the tank of gas. He changed the engine oil and installed new plugs once the tank was empty.

The Car then passed the state test without a single piece of the SMOG system installed ( other than the cat ). I have had at LEAST 2 of my own personal cars pass the state sniffer test with NO AIR systems installed.

Why keep that crap on the car when it's already passing the standards set by my state ?? The parts are getting harder to find every year, They make working on the engine a PITA, and it cluters the engine bay making it harder to maintain. Since removing the AIR system will not effect the ECM check engine light and provides more of a hassle than a benefit - why keep it ??


This statement by subliminal sums it up: "in a language that everyone here can easily understand"

 

Uh, I guess when I started this huge post, I should have said, How do I take useless crap out of my engine bay so it looks less cluttered and cleaner? Or maybe, Can I take anything out of my once in a blue moon, weekend cruiser now that I don't have to take my car in for emissions? What I'm getting at is that this is a project car. My 86 is more daily driveable. When I get the money to jam in a LS-1 and T-56, I highly doubt it will pass emissions then! Sorry for all of this. I stated this wrong. My bad.