whiteminqua

A few years back I saw a newsletter from a large Buick club. It contained the recipes required to build the Buick engines in various stages of performance, from mild to wild, and from the V6, the 401/425 nail head, and the later generation 350,400, and 455 series of engines.

Has anyone on this site done this with the TPI motors? It seems we all keep asking the same questions over and over, even after extensive searching on this website. If this info is here, I cant find it, and I have looked all over the place. Granted, its easy to miss stuff, this site is huge. So, I ask, is there a list of engine recipes for TPI motors?? Thanks.

devestator_x

iTrader: (1)

Im not sure there are any definitive "recipies" for any particular "stages" I think there are too many combos of parts that achieve the same results, or very close to similar results. There are a few points that need adressing when modifying for performance regardless of how much power you want to make. Freeing up the exhaust using Hooker 2055's, a high flow cat (usually Catco) and 3" catback is almost the best overall setup until you need to go up to long tubes and possibly true duals. There are just so many parts out there that half the time it comes down to which companies you prefer.

whiteminqua

True, many choices. We need a list of examples that are proven. That is the point of my post. Its dang near endless....

devestator_x

iTrader: (1)

Ok well, to start somewhere...
Hooker 2055's + Catco cat + Hooker Super Comp catback = Torque
Hooker 2055's + Catco cat + Flowmaster American Thunder =?
Hooker......+ SLP Loudmouth =?
Hooker...... + Edelbrock catback =?
Hooker Long Tubes + true duals = midrange-top end power
Ported plenum + Edelbrock runners + Edelbrock manifold = midrange power
HSR = mid-high end power
gutted air boxes + k&n filters = midrange power
port job on stock heads = overall power
AFR heads = larger overall power boost

Way too many combos out there especially for "mild" applications. Once again there are quite a few areas that are no brainers, but choice of components dont really affect the outcome on the lower levels of modification.
Basically it boils down to headers, 3" catback, lower intake restriction, ported heads, a good dyno tune, and cam and your making some decent power no matter which parts you put into the equation, unless you pick an overly aggresive cam, or get heads that dont match your engine size (305 style heads on a 350/383 etc) you cant really go wrong

whiteminqua

Thats a nice start. I hope the moderators dont mind, but here is a link to a page that is similar to what I am talking about. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/recipepage.html

This is a newer page done for the turbo cars. The news letter that I read years ago had referenced only carbed engines.

Wouldnt it be cool to have a page or sticky with build ups from a starting point with 305, 350, 383, and 400 engines and what parts it takes to make some honest power? Maybe some dyno numbers to back it up? Maybe some proven recipes to be duplicated by first timers like me, who cant make a solid decision on what to buy because we dont know?

I have been searching the TPI build ups for some time now and I still have not decided what to do with my car. Keep the 305 and just lightly mod it, or, build a mild 350? Not sure at this point, but the dollars are going to have an impact.

Surely others have this dilemma as well...

jetblast

iTrader: (1)

Im on the same boat, Im planning on building a 383 and would like to keep it fuel injected. Ive been reading for a couple of weeks and I still have not decided wich way to go.

Detroit_Z28

You could probably consider the ZZ4 motor to be a 'stage' of build. It's just L98 aluminum Vette heads, 208/221 cam, and will work with standard vette TPI, or can be adapted to F-body TPI. I think a few people run this combo here, probably compares with an LS1 for power, but others would know better.

whiteminqua

If we had a list of build ups.... I know it would be difficult to back it up, but dyno info sure would be cool.

I spent a whole afternoon on this site just cutting and pasting engine information. Its a very tedious process. Searches are sometimes vague and often lead off topic.

What makes this worse is that I have talked to 3 automotive machine shops in my area and none know anything about the TPI performance capabilities. They dont understand fuel injection, most of their work is on carbed engines. This site has been my only source of info outside of some books that I have purchased.

Apeiron

Nobody cares enough about the Buick engines you mention (or Pontiac, or Oldsmobile, or whatever...) for there to be any significant aftermarket support. Stock parts, and a handful of aftermarket offerings is pretty much all there is to work with for those things. It's easy to come up with a select few combinations of parts for a few applications, because those are pretty much the only combinations available.

In the Chevy world, you could build an entire engine without using one single factory part. Even for the block itself there are dozens of choices available from 4 or 5 different manufacturers. There are thousands upon thousands of "recipes" for building a small block chevy. If you want "recipes", just go buy a magazine. In any given month there will be at least one magazine on the rack featuring half a dozen different small block chevy builds.

devestator_x

iTrader: (1)

Well said. I think a good analogy would be the SBC is the swiss army knife of the car world. It can do just about anything you want it too.

Like I mentioned, just about any "recipe" will be sucessful as long as you research the parts you choose. It also depends on what horsepower range you want to go with. Lower horsepower ranges tend to be more forgiving on parts choices and almost everything is compatible. Its in the higher power that you need to do your homework and really pick and choose what you get. Im planning on building up my motor to what I hope will be roughly 300whp with a 350 block. Its pretty straight forward
Aluminum L98 heads, ported with a 3 angle valve job
Ported Plenum
gutted air boxes w/ K&N filters
Lunati 301A4LUN Cam (Computer friendly)
Edelbrock runners and manifold
Hooker 2055's
full dyno tune
Adj. fuel reg.

The good part is there is no real specfic order to do this in, but xome shold be done before others Exhaust is always first, then basic intake (plenum and filters), then cam, heads, and other intake parts could be interchangable.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

For starters mine is in my signature for 350rwhp with an unlocked A4 and 355cubes. In every way streetable and California smog legal.

irocnroll89

iTrader: (4)

WHAT HE SAID.....

1989GTA, i have been meaning to ping you anyhow.
I have paid great attention to your successes, but i have a question that relates to this very topic.
How would the same set up pull with the ASM LTR'S. I have no problem losing 20-30hp, but would like to hit 300RWHP reasonably.
cheers
shawn

whiteminqua

You make a valid point, lots of Chevy stuff out there. Not so true with TPI combinations. There is where it gets hazy. Wanna build a hot 350 with a carb... see Performer Edelbrock as an example.

The magazines dont do much with TPI anymore, its mostly LS1 or carburated motors.

devestator_x

iTrader: (1)

I remember reading somewhere on this board that the stock TPI setup can support up to around 300hp or so as long as the plenum is ported. Aftermarket runners move the powerband up depending on length. Edelbrock runners only move it up a small amount in rpms where the SLP moves it up further. The intake base can also be left stock and simply ported for small gains, or an aftermarket one purchased for larger gains. To go up over 350hp you need to think about changing the whole TPI setup and thats where you switch boards to the DIY/Alternative intake board which covers Accell and Holley style intake systems.

So yes there are only a few options for TPI intakes, but each has a place in the performance chain, and as long as you choose the right cam to match what you want to build, you wont miss. Do your homework on runner length, cam selection (all the rules for basic motor bulding apply here), head selection (pay attention to port sizing and combustion chamber size) and exhaust style (shorty headers vs long tubes, Y pipe to single vs true duals)

Basically there are no really wrong answers if you put a little time and thought into the part selection process.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Irocnroll89. Maybe. A lot of it is in how the engine is assembled. You have to take care of the details.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Here's my take on 350 TPI engines:

Heads: Trick Flow 23 degrees, AFR Eliminator 195's, Edelbrock Etec 200's, Edelbrock Performers, modified Vortecs, etc.
Camshaft: ZZ4 (stock chip), ZZ9, LT4 HOT cam, XFI268HR, etc.
Intake manifold: Edelbrock TPI, Scoggin Dickey Vortec, or used Accel (new Accel are the same as Edelbrock).
Runners: AS&M Semi-Siamese, AS&M Large Tubes, Accel Large Tubes, Edelbrock Large Tubes, SLP Semi-Siamese, Accel SuperRam
Throttle Body: Any 52mm or 58mm
Headers: SLP 1 3/4", SLP 1 5/8", Hooker 2055 1 5/8", Hedman 1 5/8"
Catalytic Converters: Magnaflow
Cat-back Exhaust: Any 3" or 3.5" you like the sound.
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4, T56, or T5 (good luck!)
Clutch: McLeod
Torque Converter: Yank or Vigilante
Rear end: 9-bolt, 12-bolt, 9-inch, 10-bolt (good luck!)
Gears: 3.23, 3.42, 3.73 posi
Tires: Mickey Thompson ET Streets, Nitto Drag Radials
Suspension: Lower control arm relocation brackets, aftermarket torque arm, springs, shocks, lower control arms, panhard rod (suspensions are not my strong suit)

*** A custom chip tune is 99% required with these heads and camshaft combos, so plan on it. ***

This is just my opinion, and the suggestions are not in any order. Any part or company not listed means I do not recommend them based on my personal choice.

whiteminqua

Kevin, you posted valuable information. Anyone else care to step up to the plate?!

This is the type of info that I am asking about.

irocnroll89

iTrader: (4)

Ok, wel i have been around for a bit. I have read, read and re-read.
I have explored the Vortec direction, both with the E-TEC heads and the 062's. I have consistently leaned toward the "conventional" intake set-up do to the fact that I have wanted to remain flexible. I have accumulated a
ACCEL TPI BASE
AS&M LTR'S
LPE 211/219 CAM
30,000 mile L98 for the base
I am likely to go with either TRICK FLOW (SUMMIT), AFR if price is right, or RHS HEADS.
I will build as intelligent as I can, and when zero hour arrives, got a few more loose parts to get, it will be done right!
That's my
CHEERS, SHAWN

jetblast

iTrader: (1)

Maybe more members can post their "Engine Recipes" and this can become a sticky.

whiteminqua

That would be nice. It would save a lot of searching, along with repeated questions and repeated answers.

jetblast

iTrader: (1)

Yes, Yes,,,,, Maybe it can be 355 recipes,383 recipes,400 recipes and so on. and also members can post the results from they engine combination.

devestator_x

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the idea of different engine sizes is a good one, especially if 305's can be posted and not flooded with "Get a 350"

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

1989GTAtransam has got a killer combo for a 350 tpi cant go wrong to follow his build.