yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I've got a stock 88 iroc with an L98. 99% of the time I drive on the street so I am looking for a cam and head combination that is very streetable. What suggestions do you guys have?

zz4monte

First of all before you go putting on expensive heads and a big cam you need better runners and intake baseplate along with headers and exhaust.If you don't do this it is kind of silly to run a bigger cam and good flowing heads because you will never reach the full potential of the motor.What is your horsepower and 1/4 mile or 1/8 mile goal? You can easily run 13s with just bolt-on parts.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

So far I've got a set of hooker headers, new cat, and 3inch flowmaster cat back. I know the base and runners need to be changed as well. What are some good choices for these? I want to run low 13's in the quarter.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Will the GM hot cam and afr 180cc heads work well together?

zz4monte

The hot cam will work but you need aftermarket runners and baseplates because the Stock TPI falls on is a$$ after 5000rpm or around there. My brother has the SLP runners and elebrock baseplate and it pulls alot harder up top but the hot-cam can rev and make power past 6000rpm. I don't know if at that point you need a holley stealth ram or something like the accel superram but the SLP Runners and Elebrock baseplate would be good on a cam like mine, the zz4 or GM 845. ZZ4 208/221 474/510 112 lobe sep. or 845 214/224 488 509 112 lobe seperation.There are also cams built by LPE and TPIS. I would say stick with a 112 lobe seperation because it is more fuel injection freindly. Also with a Hot cam you are going to need a stall speed of at least 2500 and 3.42 gears to get some performace out of it. As for the 180cc AFR's they are bad a$$ and worth every penny but you have a long waiting list for them.A hot cam with afr heads will make 400+hp and you should be able to get in the 12s with some suspension work and sticky tires.
Hell I am in the mid-low 13s with a stock stall on my monte and I ran only 271rwhp,so I bet you could do it without the hotcam.

zz4monte

Alot of guys like the hot cam but I think it is to much for a daily driver 350 unless you run a higher stall and more gear.My friend had one in his zz4 and it was a dog till about 3000 and then it would wake up.He just needed a 2800 stall to help with the low end and now it runs good but it revs to 6000rpm and still has power.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I like the afr heads but I just bought a new tranny and 2200 rpm stall so may be I should look at a ZZ9 cam from tpis

zz4monte

For that amount of money I would just get the GM 845.It runs about a 100 bucks less and has the same characteristics. Alot of guys in 90's Impala ss cars run this cam.It will also run with a stock stall.What gears do you have? RPM range is 1600-5800 which is more of what you want.Also this cam has a slight lope.I have the zz4 and there is no lope but you can tell it is not stock.The 845 also has little or no lowend loss like the hotcam and makes about 10hp more than the zz4 cam.This is a very awesome and sometimes overlooked street cam!!!Go to scoggin Dickey or pace parts and you will find it under GM Performance parts cams.This cam is made by crane for GM.They make one from crane but it is 50-75 bucks more just because the name.The crane version is called the HR-276 part # is 109821. The only difference is the exhaust duration on the crane is 2 less then the 845.I know a guy who ran the 845 cam, AFR 180's, performer rpm intake and a 750 DP and he ran 408hp on the engine dyno and it is a very streetable cam.

GOY

Great choice on the heads.

If you plan on doing the intake - figure that out first - before the cam! Valve timing is very important in LTR intakes, screwing it up can make the difference between a matched motor, and an engine that has no clue what it's doing.

Do you want to keep LTR? Do you want to do a "Stealth" LTR type intake by hogging out the SLP runners? Do you want to do the Superram for great peak torque numbers - and at the right place to ensure good HP numbers as well? (Can you tell which intake I like?) Do you want to do the HSR or LT1 and lose 40-60 lt/lbs of torque but gain 30-40 HP over the superram?

Basically what I'm saying is pick an RPM range - then the cam becomes much more easy.

Idle - 4800 RPM: What you have now.
Idle - 5400 RPM: Aftermarket LTR
1500 RPM - 6000 RPM: "Stealth" SLP runners or SuperRam
3500 RPM - 7000 RPM: Holley Stealth Ram or LT1

(Those are just examples: I know there's going to be some guy out there talking about the tire shredding torque at 1200 RPM he has with the HSR.)

Then pick the cam, once you know what you want to do with the car.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I want to keep the stock tpi and just upgrade the base and get some long tube runners. I like the tourque of the stock tpi. Since I drive on the street most of the time I don't need an extreme gain in powern in the 5000-6000 rpm range.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

What parts for the valve train do you recommend?

zz4monte

If you are going to get the baseplate and runners and not a stealth ram or mini ram (which I understand they are expensive) I would get a zz4 cam.You might be able to run something like the zz9 or 845 but I wouldn't go any bigger.You would have flow problems after 5500.Get some 1.5 roller rockers to top it off.As for new valvesprings you could call comp. or crane and they will get you what you need.Gm also sells Hyd.roller lifters too.As before they are made by crane for GM and are cheaper.Thats what is in my zz4.Basically get a cam that makes peak power 5100-5300.My zz4 makes a flat curve from 5200-5600 on the dyno and then falls off.For the baseplate and runners you could use TPIs but they are very expensive but have seen that the quality is far better then SLP.My brother got the edelbrock baseplate and the slp runners and it pulls to about 5400 just like GOY said and its alot cheaper.Check it out.Take your time and shop around.With those AFR heads you should make 280+rwhp which is more than enough to get in the low 13s if your car is set up right.Also you might want to order those heads now if you want them by the spring.I have heard that there is a 3month minimum wait for those AFR heads.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Have any of you heard of arizona speed and marine. I just talked to a friend of mine and he said he got some long tube runners from them. I looked at the runners from slp and they looked siamezed. From what I understand these are better for high rpm operation.

zz4monte

I have heard of them but did not know they made runners for the TPI. My friend had their headers on his 97WS6 a few years back and they were good quality.I take that back ASM everybody refers to them as around here. I just didn't put the two together.I have heard good things about them on the board.Do a search and see what comes up.They sure are not cheap though!!!

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for all the replies. I think I have finally decided on a combination. A zz9 cam and afr cylinder heads. I looked around at different base plates and runners and the cheapest route sounds like slp runners and an edlebrock baseplate.

GOY

The AS&M runners are the bottom line best runners if you want to keep a "True" LTR design. Just do a search on them - I think there is someone in the 12.80 area with them and a host of other mods and dedicated chip work.

The SLP runners are only so-so out of the box, but can be modified beyond what any other runner can to do things that no other runner can.

Honestly, it sounds like the AS&M runner is your best bet since you want the torque, and don't really care about high RPM fun. If you did get the SLP runner - I'd suggest cutting an inch or more (however deep you can get) out of the top part of each "Runner Pair." You effectively enlarge the plenum space, and reduce runner length by doing this, moving your torque band up a few hundred RPM. In your case, full hog doesn't sound like the way to go, so don't be tempted to do so if you did go the SLP route.

I still hold that AS&M seems like a better match for your goal or keeping big torque however.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

What is the difference between the asm and other runners? Why are they better?

D's89IROCZ

The Edelbrock runners are bigger than stock SLP's . They can by ported and siamesed . They are DAM pricey though. But IMO look the best out of all of them. The ASM are only if you want to keep the stock look of TPI . I believe the Edlebrock runners have the highest potential out of all of them . The bast can be cleaned up to meat the speck of the Accel or TPIS one ( all same base I think )

I got 251/318 to the wheels with my take setup . ( runners siamesed 4 "deep) So with your AFR's and similar intake I expect you to get a fair bit more than mine with stock 3 angle valve job heads.

Here is my runners

GOY

Do you have more pictures of the runners and the port job?? Have you ever measured "Final" runner length from the end of the siamese to the head port? Would you go on to say that you've made it roughly 16-17 inches in length? Can you siamese the runners all the way down to the base? I'm sorry for all the questions, but this is the first time I've seen it done with the edelbrocks, it's always been the SLP's that people do it with.

Also, do you have a dyno chart from your run? I'd love to see where and how the peaks occured.

D's89IROCZ

Yes I have a graph ...but it's untunned. Also others are getting a better peak with better heads/cam

I will try and dig up more of the runner shots for ya.

D's89IROCZ

Here is a different shot of the runners. I have another one but I am haveing issues getting it off my floppy disc I had it on.

91_z28_350_v8

I will be ordering the Edelbrock TPI High flo intake manifold. Is this the one you guys recommend or a different Edelbrock. Also do you guys think i should go edelbrock runners and baseplate or 'brock baseplate and SLP runners? by doing the combo is it just saving me money but reducing optimal gains in power? I appreciate your guys thoughts.

GOY

Huh, that's pretty interesting. You are making good power (assuming that's at the wheels), but I guess I was expecting the peaks to occur at higher RPM's all considered. Was it possible to siamese even deeper into the runners, or was that about it due to the angle of the bend?

D's89IROCZ

Yup thats at the wheels. I expected the peak to get higher aswell.But at least the falloff after is less harsh of a drop. I think it could went a bit deaper. But then the control of the grinder might been a bugger . A gent on here honed his base to 45 mm ( stock eddy base is 42mm I believe)... also he siamesed his runners in as fas as he could go .... that suckers made power all the way to 6000 rpm .

I expect a bit more power aswell . That was just a vette prom plugged in . So I think I can yeank over 260 to the wheels with tuneing.

3rdgenZ

iTrader: (1)

good choice, ive got a friend of mine running 12.9 with the same intake, but with elb performer head. he also had the LT4 hot cam in it. it was a C4 with 323 gears with 700r4. you should be seeing 12s. givin' that you get a good tune.



do you plan on porting out the base and SLP runners?