Mtrhd329

Ok so i have been reading up and looking into this swap for a while now just have one question. Are any of these vehicles modified prior to the computer swap? I am asking because selling the wife on a tuning program probably wont happen with all of the parts. I am wondering if a 'modified' TPI will be able to run the stock 01-02 van flash for a while before the tune funds are saved up. I dont have a daily driver but i would like to drive it a bit. Just wondering how much i have to be negotiating for with the wife.

92camaroz28ss

iTrader: (1)

it cost me just over $1,300 including all new sensors and paying someone to weld in the 2nd O2 bung. i also needed another balancer. any other questions let me know

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I drove my 383 Formula on the stock van tune. Ran flawless. It only made 238RWHP on the Van tune lol. Once tuned we were over 360+ at the wheels.

I'm going on 3 years with this swap. It is the best investment I have ever made. I would do this swap to a stock motor as well. Its "that" good. People say subframe connectors should be the first suspension mod, well this should be the first engine mod.

scuzz

Did PCMforless in NC do the dyno?
How many runs did it take?
Thanks,
Ron

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

No, Jamy from the old LSRacing Chips down the street did it for me when Akron horsepower was still around . I think it took 4-5 runs only for both of my cars. Before the swap Him and I would spend a day at the dyno together all day working with the old MAF then SD system.. We looked at my runs from the last few years and I had 90+ dyno pulls lol. Not bad for a 40K mile 383 still living lol. I helped him out and the shop with customers cars so the dyno sessions and tune was always free. Made it nice.

BBPanel

Amazingly I just stumbled onto this thread looking for this very conversion. As for the mods to the harmonic balancer, do I understand that the earlier Vortec balancer can be used instead of modifying the later one? Many of us may be running a hi perf balancer and I doubt the early Vortec balancer is. How much material must be milled of the balancer snub? Thanks. -Bob

Oops, never mind - I found it in the thread.

scuzz

Yeah, the thickness of the reluctor ring you're putting in needs to come off balancer.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Yup, I took my balancer to the machine shop and it took him maybe 10 minutes on the lathe. I just waited and looked around.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Its been right at 2 years since I did mine. Still have idle issues. But other then that its been great.

I noticed my MPG was WAY better with the maf sensor. Looking at putting it back on this fall. But want to figure out a whole new air intake system.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

how much is the wiring harness going for these days?

S10Wildside

$650.00

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

how do i place my order?

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

i seen on here about switching to an lt1 throttle body with the OBDII swap just wondering what the benefits would be i know my idle now surges up an down pretty bad.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

the rest of my sensors are on the way just put in my order to mike for my harness im real getting pumped about this swap its been on the back burner for a long time now anyone on here use hp tuners might neede a hand down the road.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I wish I would have went with hptuners. Last I knew (about a year ago) EFI still didnt support my L67, which they claimed "soon" when I ordered it. HP also supports the truck I bought earlier this year. UGH.

S10Wildside

It seems that (based on phone calls and conversations) that HP Tuners is slightly more popular then EFILive. I've always used EFILive and LOVE IT. We also have Craig Moates' RoadRunner PCM, so that's just the icing on the cake.

EFILive, HP Tuners, LS1Edit, Tunercat OBDII...doesn't really matter much. Each will just about do what you need. Although LS1Edit is not as powerful as EFILive (for example), I know LS1Edit users who stay true to the product because it's what they know and have worked with it to get the job done.

I do like EFILive's licensing better than HP Tuners.

Lextech

Mkos,
In your opinion, what was the biggest reason that you picked up 122 hp. over the Van tune? Was it V.E. and Timing or was the P.E. Delay the biggest holdback?

Jeff

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Swapping to a LTx TB will yield no benefits, only more issues

The casting is the same as a TPI TB, some places are a bit different. It uses the newer style TPS and IAC sensors which will need new connectors. It lacks the front vacuum port on the bottom. The throttle cam is different, but functional (sort of). The coolant lines are aimed slightly different (swap that piece if you want)

Surging idle suggest big vacuum leak and TPI's are prone to them with so many gaskets and surfaces to install correctly. Check that first

Tehsocks

I have spent the last few days reviewing this thread and wow! an idea that i thought would end up in the dump bin actually turned out to be what it was meant to be! I really do find it amazing how you guys brought the SBC "BACK TO THE FUTURE" ahahhahaha. anyways.

Right now, i got an 85 Z28 with the god awful almighty LG4. (canadian, no pcm) Im looking at doing a swap to a 350 or 383, something along those lines. With this system... Now, i have virtually nothing prepared, and im hoping to get this all done on a budget of around $5000... i basically want big power, with the same or better driveability i get from my LG4, with the same or better MPG (might not be possible, even if its not itll be worth it)

Based on what ive seen and the results ive read, its been figured out to work, and to be reliable. This will be the last engine upgrade (or only lmao) my car will see for probably years to come. My car is a daily driver, and always will be, which is what makes this swap so intresting.

My friend has a 350 SD tpi, and its cammed and tuned. but i guess his cam is too lumpy, becuase in open loop (the cold one), the car surges at idle really badly. and i dont want that, I want the stereotypical EFI setup. Turn key, put in gear, WOT, perfectly smooth or close to .

So my question to you guys is, I realize no one here has a stock tpi behind their system here. So what are you running, and more specifally. What cam? and what cam do you recommend?

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

well i have all my parts and wildside's harness will be here tomorrow the car is in the body shop right now though should have it back in a week. im really pumped up on doing this swap im so worried about the start up though we have hp tuners but its new to us.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

hey mike where did you get those spark plug wires and those black centerbolt hold downs from?

S10Wildside

The black "loom" was a Summit purchase. The brand is "Made For You".

The wires are Accel (high temp boots).

builtnotbought

hey im new to the board. i was just wondering what kind of serious power can be made with the tpi system. im looking to be turboing my "strace" car(street/race car) and was wondering if this system will work. im looking at making 800hp. will the tpi system work for this aplication and where can i get a more tunable computer. and what size injectors would i need to support this amount of power. thanks. calebs the name. the race car is actually a truck. an s-10.

S10Wildside

The LS1 PCM will deliver and meet your expectations. See http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt...s-700rwhp.html.

The TPI manifold is not ideal for that power level, but there are many aftermarket manifolds that will bolt to your engine and flow the air needed.

You will achieve better results if you run a coil per cylinder ignition system. See https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...-cylinder.html.

builtnotbought

i dont wanna spend a million dollars doing that conversion. i will prolly use the intake and just buy a f.a.s.t. or big stuff fuel managenment system. i like the way the tpi intake looks thats why i wanna use it. i just figured someone made a comp for those to make easier tunability.

S10Wildside

That's cool, but what will the FAST or Big Stuff fuel management system do for your build that the LS1 PCM won't?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I'm going on about 2 years since MKOS1980 swapped my car to OBD2 and Jamy from LSRacing chips tuned it. I'm on a totally new engine/exhaust/gear combo now. I'm running a pretty healthy 109LSA cam and making 370hp at the wheels, and my car fires on the first revolution, every time, never hesitates, and this summer I got 25MPG with my AC on during the hot rod power tour. Still love it!!! My car is getting painted now, and I miss driving it

I have a video in my sig you can watch. Definitely sounds healthy, but drives stock!

builtnotbought

if im going to spend the money to do a new pcm why not buy one used that has all the injectors and everything and the software to tune it for the same price. such as used bigstuff kits. and used fast and megasquirt.

S10Wildside

The GM PCM solution has these benefits:
- inexpensive PCM (about $50.00 in your local wrecking yard)
- better drivabilty than aftermarket ECUs
- 4L60E and 4L80E control
- electronic throttle (optional)
- tunable by most dyno shops (most already have EFILive or HP Tuners)
- OBD trouble code retrieval - stop by your local Advance Auto and get the car scanned for free (Justin can testify to this)

Aftermarket fuel management systems have their place for sure, but if you're using 8 injectors and not exceeding 1,000hp, then the GM PCM will more than adequately do the job.

There's a perception that just because it's not factory it must be better. I would suggest that GM has more time/testing into their PCMs than any aftermarket ECU.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I got some weeeird looks when I told the guy at advance I needed an OBD2 scanner for my 3rdgen LOL

evilstuie

Hmm, unique question, can i run a 411 pcm JUST to run a CANBUS dash cluster, but still have the 165ECM run the motor?
just have the speed, tacho, fuel, and temp senders spliced into it and have it send the data to the cluster via canbus...

Would it work?
Could it work?

Edit:
And if not, is there anywhere i can get all the parts collected for an OBD2 conversion and sent to australia, like a wreckers that might specialise in these kind of conversions or something?

afgun

Unfortunately the 0411 is a Class-II device, not CANBUS. CAN is newer than the 0411 PCM.

This guy at http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/098611.html seems to have a pretty good handle on GM Class-II clusters being run on an analogue car, so if that's what you're after, you might hit him up to see if he could build something for you...

evilstuie

ah, no worries.
Could I run the 411PCM the same way but use an obd2 plug to an in car pc to run a 7" tocuh screen and obd2 dash program, like scanguage2?

afgun

It's possible that could be done (though you'll have to double check that sensors are compatible, or run 2 sets). But since there's software available for the 730 PCM, I'm not sure why you'd want to if you're not converting...

evilstuie

what software?
i need something that can run all gauges simultaneously and i was under the impression the 8192 baud rate that the 165's/730ecms run on is insufficient as it can only output a few gauges on a per second basis?

evilstuie

New Question
Instead of having to get a vortec timing cover, cam sensor and 24 tooth reluctor, and vortec dizzy... can i just purchase a FAST dual sync distributor?
Would that do the job of the other bits?

Lextech

There have been several posts on this thread about the V-6 and V-8 Vortec distributors being the same. They are absolutely NOT the same. They both have the rotor indexing holes for each engine, but the screw holes are what make the difference. A V-6 dist has a "6" on the reluctor and is threaded for the rotor to index for a V-6. The V-8 has an "8" on the reluctor and is threaded for the rotor to index for a V-8. To make a V-6 Dist. work PROPERLY in a V-8 you need to index the rotor into the V-8 holes and drill/tap the hold down screw holes. The engine will run, and probably run well, but the rotor needs to be oriented in the correct holes.

Jeff

MixtureChicken

What is the possibility of using the 24x reluctor with this system? It'd sure be easier to change to CNP later, and I'd already have half the parts.

S10Wildside

4x Crank Reluctor = "LS1" PCM with 2001-2002 Express Van Calibration (Distributor and Single Coil)
24x Crank Reluctor = LS1 PCM with Camaro/Firebird/Corvette/Truck Calibration (Distributor-Less)

You cannot use a 24x reluctor with a single coil and distributor.

evilstuie

Hey guys,
I'm about to do a vortec/0411pcm swap into the transam, gonna be running around 450hp 383 vortec motor with minram and run x24 sequential injection from efi connection, but i'm a little confused about the transmission...
If i keep my t700r4 which has been strengthened too handle 500hp and shiftkitted, will it overheat or get damaged?
will the tcc lockup will engage mechanically if the pcm isn't controlling it, or will it just float and over heat?

I don't really want to replace the transmission to get it to run reliably, and i don't see the advantages of electronic shift control as i've got a b&m megashifter so i change gear when i feel like it.

So basically can i run the t700r4 and keep it locking up however it does at the moment?

jwscab

you can use the lockup kit that several manufacturers make so that the lockup occurs as soon as the trans goes into 4th gear. it involves dropping the pan and replacing a 4th gear switch(the trans already has one, but there are a couple different versions), adding a harness internally, and wiring in 12v to power the lockup solenoid. the kit is nice, and there are several writeups about doing the conversion, including a diy kit here on the forums. the lockup will give you some mileage, when gas is $3 and up, every little bit helps. the converter is fine running non locked up, also, so you can run it that way, you will just run a little warmer as it will still slip in OD, rather than be locked up.

setting the TV cable is much more critical.

PonyKiller87

Does anyone have a pin out of what all the terminals are on the 411 PCM ?

On another forum I found that Pin 71 on the blue terminal is the one used to toggle between normal and performance(tow/haul) shifting.

What I'm trying to find is if there is a terminal that will turn a light on or off to tell you which one you are in?

scuzz

If they downloaded, you are good to go.

afgun

Pinout depends on the OS you are running. Most dash lights are signalled on or off over the class-2 bus.

S10Wildside

...which means the (newer) instrument clusters reading the Class 2 data has logic to illuminate the telltale light(s).

For example, on my 2003 Silverado SS, when cruise control is set, the dash telltale illuminates only because the Throttle Control Module broadcasts a signal through the Class 2 bus and the instrument cluster responds by illuminating the light. There is no physical connection from any module to the telltale light.

However, not all lights are this way. The MIL (malfunction indicator lamp...or service engine soon) is still a ground signal from the PCM to illuminate the telltale lamp. Hmm...not sure why.

afgun

In case there's a problem with one of the many components that enable communication over the bus, or the PCM itself. I'd bet that the PCM grounds the line by default and only after a checksum/etc of itself does the code unground it.

S10Wildside

That does make sense. Good call!

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone come up with a solution for this? Where is everyone placing the PCM if it won't fit where the stock computer was?
Thanks,
Tony

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Well I finally need to do a crank relearn as I had to swap intake gaskets on my Formula. No SES light but I can tell it needs one. I can move the distributor with the car running back and forth and no light but it tuns rougher and rougher as i turn it away to where I have it. Since my harness has no wires to the Neutral Park switch, what had to be grounded to get it to work? i saw two slots had to be grounded then only 1 of them. I've dont it before but i cant remember anymore. Let me know! Thanks!

S10Wildside

The crank relearn ONLY needs to be redone if you have changed the reluctor wheel, sensor, timing cover, or installed a new PCM. Generally, if it is not specifically throwing a trouble code for crank relearn, then you don't need to do the procedure.

The crank relearn procedure does not improve or correct any engine running conditions. However, it does allow the PCM to accurately detect misfire if your tuner has setup the misfire tables for your engine. Most tuners will not do this as the time it takes is not profitable ($$$).

Matt, your engine behaves differently as you move the distributor back and forth because you're changing when the rotor comes in contact with each point on the distributor cap. While your car does not need to have the crank relearn procedure done again...

With...
- a 2001-2002 Express Van calibration
- any LS Truck calibration
- any LS Corvette calibration
...the PCM needs to see a ground on BLUE 32 and BLUE 34 to indicate Park/Neutral (which will satisfy the Park signal to allow crank relearn).

With any...
- LS Camaro/Firebird calibration
... the PCM needs to see a ground on BLUE 34 only to indicate Park/Neutral (which will satisfy the Park signal to allow crank relearn).