TPI OBDII - Thoughts/Opinions
#51
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Diagrams can be purcahsed at ALLDATADIY.COM - Do It Yourself Automotive Diagnostic & Repair Information. ($25 for first subscription, $15 for each after).
#52
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I got my PCM and harness off of E-Bay. It was 95.00 and was from an 01-02 S10. I got the 01-02 Express van wiring diagrams from a Chevy technician buddy. You could probably sweet talk and give a CHEVY TECH 10.00 to print them out for you. Since my PCM was from a V-6 S10 it was not programed to work with my truck, I got a VIN number for an 01 Express Van with a 5.7 engine and a 4l80e trans. I had my buddy reflash it with this VIN so it would run my truck. The VIN determines the programming on factory stuff.
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Car: 67 Firebird Convertible
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.55
I got my PCM and harness off of E-Bay. It was 95.00 and was from an 01-02 S10. I got the 01-02 Express van wiring diagrams from a Chevy technician buddy. You could probably sweet talk and give a CHEVY TECH 10.00 to print them out for you. Since my PCM was from a V-6 S10 it was not programed to work with my truck, I got a VIN number for an 01 Express Van with a 5.7 engine and a 4l80e trans. I had my buddy reflash it with this VIN so it would run my truck. The VIN determines the programming on factory stuff.
Ron
#55
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Here's my experience with the VIN in the PCM. I put a 12200411 PCM in my 2000 Firehawk without changing the VIN. I immediately got an air bag light. When I scanned the car to detect all modules (with EFILive), only the PCM was available. The Traction Control Module, Air Bag Module, and Body Control Module were not even listed. When I put the other PCM back in, all the problems went away. I could then retrieve a trouble code from the air bag module that read, "Configuration Mismatch". All I had to do was correct the VIN in the 12200411 PCM to fix the problem.
So it appears that the TCS, BCM, PCM, etc have the VIN programmed in them so they all play nice together.
So it appears that the TCS, BCM, PCM, etc have the VIN programmed in them so they all play nice together.
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Just to update. In post 47, I said there was 1 A/C wire not used. Well, there are 2 wires. I will figure them out later on. The truck has about 150 miles on it with the 411 and it runs perfect. I tied the 2 green wires that go into the truck for speed input together and connected them to the 1 speed output on the 411--Speedo and cruise work fine as do all the gauges. I had to cut the ground wire from the fuel sender and connect it to its proper place on the 411 for the fuel gauge to work. I also have a 54 Chevy p/u with a 557 Cadillac engine and 4l80e trans and I know for sure that I will be using a 12200411 on that project.
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Well I finally figured what the 411 wants for crank relearn. I did the relearn today. The 411 uses 4 inputs from the Park/Neutral switch. If you do not use this switch then you need to ground Pin 32 and 34 of C1 Blue 80pin connector DURING the relearn procedure, so the PCM thinks it's in park!
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Car: 91 TPI Caprice
Transmission: TH700R4
guys, i'm looking for a (GM PCM) way to run 4L60-E/4L80-E together with TPI now for 2 years - you gave me the answer! that sounds so damn cool, i'm immediately starting to look for all the needed parts
#59
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Well I finally figured what the 411 wants for crank relearn. I did the relearn today. The 411 uses 4 inputs from the Park/Neutral switch. If you do not use this switch then you need to ground Pin 32 and 34 of C1 Blue 80pin connector DURING the relearn procedure, so the PCM thinks it's in park!
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Car: 67 Firebird Convertible
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.55
It looks like we might have a break-through.
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
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I pulled a complete harness from a 2001 Express Van a couple weeks ago. If you can find a 2001-2002 Express Van or Savanna Van, I think you would have an easier shot at changeover.
I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
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I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron
Last edited by scuzz; 10-15-2006 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#61
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
It looks like we might have a break-through.
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
----------
I pulled a complete harness from a 2001 Express Van a couple weeks ago. If you can find a 2001-2002 Express Van or Savanna Van, I think you would have an easier shot at changeover.
I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
----------
I pulled a complete harness from a 2001 Express Van a couple weeks ago. If you can find a 2001-2002 Express Van or Savanna Van, I think you would have an easier shot at changeover.
I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron
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Car: 67 Firebird Convertible
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.55
#65
Crank Sensor?
Sure...
Here's a list of parts (this will be revised until the engine is running and I know the list is complete):
Here's a list of parts (this will be revised until the engine is running and I know the list is complete):
- 12200411 PCM (LS1, Truck, S-10, Blazer, Express, others)
- Wiring Harness for 12200411 (must follow Vortec L31 schematics)
- Vortec 305/350 Distributor (has camshaft sensor in it)
- Vortec 305/350 Harmonic Balancer
- Vortec 305/350 Timing Cover
- Vortec Timing Reluctor Ring (goes behind timing cover)
- Vortec Crank Position Sensor
- Vortec Ignition Module
- Vortec Coil
- Knock Sensor (2001 Express Van w/ 5.7 engine)
Can you add the vortec crank sensor to the old TPI style blocks and if so how? I thought the timing cover had a diffrent bolt pattern?
My friend has a tpi and was wondering if their was a diffrent type of computer to run his engine with out going aftermarket. I thought of the Vortec computer but the Tpi has no crank sensor.
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Car: 67 Firebird Convertible
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.55
Can you add the vortec crank sensor to the old TPI style blocks and if so how? I thought the timing cover had a diffrent bolt pattern?
My friend has a tpi and was wondering if their was a diffrent type of computer to run his engine with out going aftermarket. I thought of the Vortec computer but the Tpi has no crank sensor.
My friend has a tpi and was wondering if their was a diffrent type of computer to run his engine with out going aftermarket. I thought of the Vortec computer but the Tpi has no crank sensor.
I got a 97 truck harness and got S10Wildside to convert it for me.
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I am ALMOST positive that the 4.3 V-6 distributor is the same part number as the V-8. It just uses a different cap---cause it's a V-6. Remember the distributor is a 1X signal per dist. rotation.
#69
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Let's go back to the transmission range switch. This switch is not used in the f-body.
Range Switch Equipped Vehicles
PCM Connector C1
32: Range Switch A
34: Range Switch P
72: Range Switch B
PCM Connector C2
62: Range Switch C
F-Body (no range switch)
PCM Connector C1
32: Clutch Pedal Position Signal
34: Park/Neutral Position Signal
72: Not Used
PCM Connector C2
62: Not Used
I assume the range switch is optional. I'm going to have to check to see if my 2000 Firehawk has a wire in C1, pin 32. It's an automatic car. If it does not, then I would think only C1, pin 34 needs grounded for the crank relearn. I should mention I've already swapped to the 12200411 PCM in the Firehawk.
Does everyone see where I'm going with this?
Range Switch Equipped Vehicles
PCM Connector C1
32: Range Switch A
34: Range Switch P
72: Range Switch B
PCM Connector C2
62: Range Switch C
F-Body (no range switch)
PCM Connector C1
32: Clutch Pedal Position Signal
34: Park/Neutral Position Signal
72: Not Used
PCM Connector C2
62: Not Used
I assume the range switch is optional. I'm going to have to check to see if my 2000 Firehawk has a wire in C1, pin 32. It's an automatic car. If it does not, then I would think only C1, pin 34 needs grounded for the crank relearn. I should mention I've already swapped to the 12200411 PCM in the Firehawk.
Does everyone see where I'm going with this?
#70
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I just checked. On an automatic LS1 f-body, C1, pin 32, is not used (empty). So, that should mean that only C1, pin 34, has to be grounded to incidate park and perform the crank relearn.
Lextech, what are your thoughts on this?
Lextech, what are your thoughts on this?
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I understand exactly--your dilema, but you have already grounded just pin 34 and it wouldn't relearn. Why not try grounding both pins 32 and 34 during the relearn and see if it works. I know you will have to add a piece of wire but, that's all I can think of. I am not a GM tech. Is there a parking brake input to the 411 on the LS1 F-bodys?
Last edited by Lextech; 10-21-2006 at 10:58 PM. Reason: forgot something
#72
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I understand exactly--your dilema, but you have already grounded just pin 34 and it wouldn't relearn. Why not try grounding both pins 32 and 34 during the relearn and see if it works. I know you will have to add a piece of wire but, that's all I can think of. I am not a GM tech. Is there a parking brake input to the 411 on the LS1 F-bodys?
There is no parking brake input to the PCM.
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S10Wildside, I have been told that the cam sensor ( CMP ) has to be within +/- 2 degrees or the relearn won't work---Just a thought. Also, since the LS1 engine is a whole different animal, The 411 may only need 1 signal input for the relearn. So the LS1 scenerio may not apply.
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
S10Wildside, I have been told that the cam sensor ( CMP ) has to be within +/- 2 degrees or the relearn won't work---Just a thought. Also, since the LS1 engine is a whole different animal, The 411 may only need 1 signal input for the relearn. So the LS1 scenerio may not apply.
I simply took my balancer to my machine shop and they removed just under an 1/8 (90 thousanths) off the snout and it works perfect.
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Its alive and running super smooth. We did the crank relearn procedure outlined a few posts back and it works flawless. No SES light no nothing. We didnt have the time to tune yet so its still running the express tune but with the 383 and miniram its silky smooth, no hesitation, no nothing. And my MPH and cruise work perfect.
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Well the dyno numbers were just a "tad" higher. I was up 5hp and 3lbs tq. It only pulled 325/330 at the wheels. I was hoping for a tad higher. Air fuel was dead on 12.8 across the graph. Max HP was at 5800 rpms. I figured with the 383 the tq would be around 350ish maybe. Cam isnt that big of duration. 219/219 560/560 112. I am still running a single cat (which after 43 dyno pulls) was ratteling and smelled. So I bet its on its way out. I am also running stock firebird intake tract. I dont think the tranny is slipping at all. Its got 90K on it with a reman s-10 converter.
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Only thing we have to figure out now is the TCC lockup
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Only thing we have to figure out now is the TCC lockup
Last edited by Mkos1980; 11-13-2006 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Car: 67 Firebird Convertible
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.55
It's great to see so much interest in the changeover. When I started mine, I didn't know of anyone else. Then after a couple posts, I'm amazed at the interest now.
I personally think that the 0411 changeover will give new life to older OBDI projects.
I personally think that the 0411 changeover will give new life to older OBDI projects.
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Mkos1980 thanks for the update. Would like to see the dyno sheet if you can post it. The exhaust system maybe killing your motor. You should have way more than 330RWTQ. Heck I'm at 370rwtq with my 350 along with 330rwhp and a smaller cam. Something is holding your motor back.
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Congrats-MKOS. The 12200411 PCM is really a cool option/upgrade that could open the door for so many smallblock projects. To anyone that is reading this thread, remember this PCM will also run a 4l60e ro 4l80e trans with no chips to burn or aftermarket trans controller. Just the ticket for street rod projects.
#82
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Mkos1980 thanks for the update. Would like to see the dyno sheet if you can post it. The exhaust system maybe killing your motor. You should have way more than 330RWTQ. Heck I'm at 370rwtq with my 350 along with 330rwhp and a smaller cam. Something is holding your motor back.
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I'll try to get some pics of the motor too to show how nice the coil and new style dis fits back there.
Last edited by Mkos1980; 11-13-2006 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#83
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
We had the AF dead on from 12.5-12.8 and total timing was 34. We tried an extreme tune with 37 total and we lost power. Car did not like that.
#84
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I agree...and with GM beginning to discontinue memcals for the TPI system, this will likely be the solution.
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Is there any HP loss with the converter not locking up at higher rpm? Only reason I ask is were yet to find out how to rigg up the TCC so it locks and unlocks
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Its alive and running super smooth. We did the crank relearn procedure outlined a few posts back and it works flawless. No SES light no nothing. We didnt have the time to tune yet so its still running the express tune but with the 383 and miniram its silky smooth, no hesitation, no nothing. And my MPH and cruise work perfect.
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
On the trip to S10's and back and a few other spots the car went 253 miles before a fillup of 13 gallons. Thats 19 a gallon with no lockup and a cruise set at 75mph AF was NOT tuned for highway and showed 14-15 for some of the trip. This was on the 383
The 355 should be up and running on the 411 by Saturday
The 355 should be up and running on the 411 by Saturday
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Well the 355 is up and running on the 411. It started in a split sec with the stock Express tune and 42lbs injectors lol. Idled silky smooth too. SES light was on so I know I have a crank relearn to do and some various other things. But I am glad it at least started.
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The 12200411 PCM does not need a chip to be reflashed, it also uses dual spark tables, it will run a 4l60e or 4l80e trans, it is not RPM restricted like some GM PCMs, it can be reflashed with a 2 or 3 bar operating system. You can run a 3 or 5 wire GM MAF by rescaling the MAF tables. It is supported by Tunercat-HPTuners-EFILive
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Drivability is NIGHT & DAY. Even if there was NO power gains or no nothing, i would spend the money because it drives sooooooooooooooo nice.
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There's something to be said for being able to troubleshoot the efi system with a book and a paper clip. OBDII is a nightmare if you don't have the equipment to work with it, and the equipment ain't cheap. Only time will tell though, when the OBDII cars get some age on them, everything usually turns to crap.
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Just thought that I would post a link that I found to some Vortec Ignition parts for us Vortec PCM Converts.
http://www.performancedistributors.com/vortec.htm
http://www.performancedistributors.com/vortec.htm
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Car: Formula
Engine: 6.0 LSX
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3:27
Thanks for the link!!. BTW the ONLY distributor that I found to be of high performance was Accel's Billetech. This is the only distributor that has a steel shaft. All OEM and reman ones have a plastic shaft. I got the Billetech and its Top Notch!!. It was 259, but when you look at others used or new its the same if not more. I also went with the MSD coil and taylor spiral pro wires for my setuyp. The wires are from a 98 K1500 Vin R and fit PERFECT
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
The 85mm MAF sensor works so well that I retrofited one onto my TBI system, with the help of Dimented24x7 and his MAF $0D based code for the later TBI PCM.
Be warned that TBI injectors are LOUD at 30+ PSI.
This engine has a ZZ4 cam with worked 081s on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Byd1ejQknU
The proof that it is running on the MAF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVQePIYzhI
Last edited by Fast355; 11-30-2006 at 06:59 PM.
#100
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I suspect that many will opt out of the MAF sensor. As long as the PCM is tuned right, it can be eliminated. The harness I built for my S-10 has the MAF wiring in it (as shown in pictures above), but I plan to take it out.