HD4mula

My engine dynoed 236 HP and 343 TQ @ the wheels. I’m happy but I want more. Mo goal is to get to 300 RWHP without loosing (or not much) torque. I will keep the long runners setup as I love how they look and prefer to sacrifice a little HP to torque. This is what I have right now:

- 355 roller cam block
- Flat top pistons running 10:1 compression
- Stock heads with stamped rockers and appropriate springs for cam
- Crane Cam HR 276-2S-12 (PN 109821),
@ .05: I/E 214°/222° duration (Adv 276°/274°)
I/E .488/.509 lift
- Stock base, runners and TB, Minor porting to plenum entrance (lower bump)
- CAI with K&N
- 22lbs injectors
- AFPR running 43psi
- Custom PROM running $5D/165 setup (needed for application)
- Sanderson CC90 headers (needed for application)
- True dual muffler 2.5” mandrel bent exhaust (no cats)

This is what I plan to add:
- AS&M runners
- Accel base
- Port-match plenum (by Corvetteplenum.com)
- 52mm TB
- AFR 190s heads
- Crane Gold roller rockers or similar

Do you think I can attain my goal of 300rwhp with those parts added? What is the PN of AFR heads that I need? I'm planning on AFR heads because they seem the preferred choice here for TPI. Thanks.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

with the new base and runners ported up to match well with each other and cleaned up some to flow better, i'd say your gonna hit near 280ish rwhp with a great tune. the heads and intake u plan on running will definately flow alot more than ur current setup. i think u could use abit more cam lift and a few more degrees of duration, but as is, it should be somewhat close to 300whp. i'm thinkin 280s. thats not bad at all. its all in the tune tho

D's89IROCZ

I got 251 rwhp with my timid setup untuned. You should be dam close to 3000 rwhp with all the new stuff and a good tune.

TPI-Formula350-

replacing ur intake base and heads will help alot. I also made 251 RWHP with mods in sig.

HD4mula

Thanks all for the replies. So would the AFR heads make the 50HP difference (251 to 300)? They clain 80HP on a stock engine but most of us know advertised claims are How much can I expect from the heads after the intake mods? Because those will be the last for sure

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

last time i heard its only 30+ hp over stock L98 aluminum heads, which probly only give you 10-15 more over iron heads cuz the increased compression and only abit more flow.

if your at 236 now, i'd say intake mods will make 250-255 fairly easily with good tunning. heads on that should do another 30... i'd see 280 with that setup.. but it might push near 300.

Dans87GTA

iTrader: (1)

try tuning it alittle better try different timing and fuel pressure i had 355 with KB pistons about 9.6 compression 214/220 .497/.502 lift shorty headers flowmaster 3inch exhaust stock ported TB, ported base and plenum, stock injectors, with 52 psi. fuel press,LCA's competition 3 angle valve job slightly ported and i made 284 to the wheels

Ray87Z

Somebody around here (Kevin something??) was hitting like 310+rwhp on a LTR setup w/ lightly ported L98 Vette heads and a decent cam unless my memory is totally failing me. Surely w/ AFRs and aftermarket TPI stuff you can get up to that range or more...

Why don't you go for a HSR setup though, I still do not quite understand why so many guys want to stick w/ the LTR setup. I've got a LT1 and I've still got more torque than I can put down too easily, I don't see where you're losing much to give up a little of the less usuable low end torque to gain some serious rwhp...

valencia1z

runners, intake, tb , and a good tune u dont need the heads to do the 300 i did 289 with stock rockers and intake l98 motor

HD4mula

This is mostly a daily driver. I like big torque. Also I like more the LTR look. Finnaly and very imprtant I don't think my hood (not Camaro/Fierbird) will clear the HSR.

Thanks all for the opinions

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Are u kidding?...........It must be an auto right?
jethawk is my buddy and we went to the dyno he put down 220HP and 295ft/lbs....only mods is bumped the fuel pressure, home made cold air, muffler.
He ran 14.3 last weekend also......91 Formula 305TPI T5!

Jay

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Kevin was around 318RWHP with a ton of torque. Something like 430RWTQ. I believe he had the AS&M runners. He is now running the fully siamesed SLP runners and his horsepower is about 325RWHP. With tuning and a cam upgrade that will shoot up quite abit more.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

You don't need the AFR heads. Either get your current heads ported or find some other decent better-priced head for the money, like some vortecs. I wouldn't waste my money on the afr's.

The cast iron heads will keep your compression where it needs to be, I would find some L98 cores and send them to lloyd elliot, he charges $400 for porting.

http://www.eportworks.com/

Hawk92z-TDZ

Old combo from 2 years ago


Ported stockers, 256rwhp
AFR 190's, 271rwhp

XE256h cam
bone stock TPI on top, with foil and 24# injectors
T-5

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

you can use the best heads money can buy (AFR-or whoever) but if you try to make them breath through a cocktailstraw (stock or ported TPI) its kind of a waste of money isn't it.....

try to run a hundred yard dash and just breath through a straw... same thing

Hawk92z-TDZ

Nope, its called upgrading as $ allow's, one step at a time

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Patriot Performance Heads also show very good results.

HD4mula

Ok. I have read a lot here and the head tha seesm to be recommended most for their results is the AFR. I know thay are expensive but nicely done. I would like something better than ported stock heads if later on I move to a 383 or even another intake. Which heads would you recommend then on the cheap side but better than ported stocks? Would I be wasting my money with the AFRs? I know they can do 450HP on a 383 with the right cam (shown on that HPC mag article or other). Which heads? Thanks all for your comments.

HD4mula

?? Any opinion on my heads comment? Thanks.

D's89IROCZ

Like said above the Patriot 23 deg head is a sweet piece. Comes all CNC ported and cheaper than AFR , but performes pretty close. But I haven't seen the flow numbers yet . Just heard the speal from Patriout.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

450hp on a 383 with the right intake and cam is doable on trick flow heads or the patriot heads... they are cheaper than AFR. also some Darts and Brodix heads are available for somewhat cheaper and do perform well

HD4mula

I don't see too much difference between Patriot and AFR prices. Patriot are listed at $1295 and AFR for $1399. What would be the correct PN for these? Which versions for my purpose? 180s, 190s, 195s? Sorry if this may be redundant. I have serached but haven't found good compiled info on best heads for TPI. Tks.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

for your purpose, i think 180's would do well.. for other intakes and more rpms, or more cubic inches, then go 195's

HD4mula

Any other opinion? Tks

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Dyno numbers are so subjective. IMO dynos are a good tuning tool used to compare power from run to run on the same dyno. Coming on here and throwing dyno numbers down is comparing apples to oranges. I only put 230rwhp and 280rwtq with my LB9 but see the track times in my sig, especialy the crappy 60ft and the 100.5mph trap speed. Your buddies Formula put more power down than mine, but I could match his ET starting out in 2nd gear.

If you are going to run a tpi setup, run smaller heads like Vortecs or AFR 180s. for mini ram or stealth ram go 195s or so. basically what others have suggested I would support.

HD4mula

1MeanZ ; Thanks for the tip. I have been reading a lot here lately and I think the AFR 180 would be more than fine for now and later. I should only need about 230cfm (based on runner flow data) that these could support. I don't expect to need (safely) more than 300-380rwhp later down the road 9300 goal now). I just want a solid mid 12s car with good torque.

On the other hand I think dyno data is real factual data and track times is what it is very subjective. It depends a lot on driver skills, traction, track prep, etc. Dynos has variation (same brands) but is never as high as drivers variation

D's89IROCZ

got 251 /318 to the wheels with no tune . The LS1's were all down 10 hp because the heat that day so I figure with a good tune and nice heat 265ish to the wheels

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

U will have to ditch the long tube runners if you want to make power. Sorry dude. 300rwhp is going to be a stretch.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

You can make 300RWHP with the added parts. The only question would be the Sanderson headers. As has been stated on other posts MadMax made 331RWWHP with his 355 and stock runners with AFR 190 heads and an XFI cam. I would look into another the cam to make things easier.

By the way start learning about things like quench, dynamic compression ratio and valve train geometry. Do a Google search on the above items.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Don't forget...Trick Flow's are the best bang for the buck...$1350 ready to use out of the box.

You won't get a set of AFR's for $1399 ready to use for the street out of the box. More like $1800- $1900 when they get done adding the street stuff.

HD4mula

I can change the cam if really need it. Would I loose a lot of torque with the GMPP HOT cam? I guess I'll need to find out the specs for this XFI cam. Don't know about it.
I just got a deal on some used AS&M runners and Edelbrock base. Not sure if I will use that base. I was looking for the Accel one.
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Could you please tell me which Trickflow specific model? Thanks a lot

HD4mula

I went to Trickflow's page and found this part number (195 Kenny Duttweiler);
TFS-30400006 (64cc)

I think that would be the correct one for my roller cam (post 86) engine. Yes? Which cc would be better to get around 10:1 with flat pistons? The 62cc or 64cc chambers? The CNC ones are $1316 at Summit. Not bad.

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

I have the TFS-30400007 heads for sale. They are brand NEW!! Let me know if your interested. They are 62cc/195cc. They flow 260cfm at .550 lift.

gmgod

I always hear this but I paid $1341 for my AFR 180's shipped to my door from Tenacious Performance

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

how well do the 180's flow?

HD4mula

From AFR site link to CHP: List of Distributors

Chevy High Performance Magazine
Intake Port Flow Test Results
180cc to 199cc Heads
Valve AFR Brodix-8 Canfield Holley GM Edelbrock
Lift 190 8-Pro Aluminum SysteMAX LT4 Performer*

.200 144 125 141 130 147 121
.300 208 177 201 184 197 174
.400 244 220 247 222 230 216
.500 262 254 258 242 250 235
.600 261 226 257 252 243 236
*The Edelbrock head has a 166cc port volume; but is included here because it competes directly with these other aftermarket heads in the marketplace.



Chevy High Performance Magazine
Exhaust Port Flow Test Results
180cc to 199cc Heads
AFR Brodix-8 Canfield Holley GM Edelbrock
190 8-Pro Aluminum SysteMAX LT4 Performer*
Valve Lift open w/pipe open w/pipe open w/pipe open w/pipe open w/pipe open w/pipe
.200 115 121 91 94 104 107 90 92 109 114 95 96
.300 146 157 118 123 135 143 117 122 133 141 134 134
.400 176 188 138 144 164 175 143 148 159 167 159 159
.500 190 202 155 164 175 190 168 172 172 180 177 177
.600 197 211 161 170 183 200 181 187 177 185 187 187
*The Edelbrock head has a 166cc port volume; but is included here because it competes directly with these other aftermarket heads in the marketplace.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

That's the right # for your combo
flat tops 64cc= 10:1.
I have built several motors with these heads 340-370 HP from a 355 12.40's to 12.70's in the quarter. with modded intake systems (but still tuneport).

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, I have read that article. Curious how the 180cc flowed. Every head flows a little different. I got mine flowed, and they beat what Trickflow said they would flow.
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when u say modded intake? what intake, and what cam to run 12.4-12.7. i'd imagine this is with a good 60 foot? are we talking 108-110 mph?