I did a fair share of 350 F-body “super-tunes” back in the late 80s and early 90s and Matt’s times are conceivably not all that far off what I know these cars were capable of back when the engine, electronics, and wiring were new / fresh. Matt’s car appears to be a perfect example of the old saying,,, “it is not about how many mods you have, but how well the mods you have work for you”,,, and what Matt has done is obviously working for him. Kudos to you Matt!!

 

well usually you dont want to go into overdrive while drag racing.. you want to finish with your 1 to 1 ratio gear, or 3rd gear.

4.10's or bigger with 3.06 first gear in the trans would make first gear near useless. as soon as you go WOT, you will have to shift. first will go to about 25 mph. thats a quick gear.

with 4.10's, 104mph traps would be about 5500rpms in 3rd gear. thats way too high in TPI cars. TPI dyno charts show peak power at 4500rpms or around that. after that power drops off like a cliff

i mean stock TPI as in stock runners/base/plenum but with heads and cam work to the motor

 

I think there worknig overtime for him what ever he's bribing them parts with to make them work that hard, we need to find out

 

- For gearing, I don't believe in using overdrive in the 1/4. Ideally, 1:1 trans ratio (meaning 3rd gear) at peak hp rpm going through the traps. As far as the barely move and hit 2nd, nothing wrong with that. In a drag car, 1st gear moves the car. Once it has physically moved, you should be in 2nd.
- that said, with the peak power rpm of a LT TPI, unless you're running a much taller tire, I would think 3.73 would be max low of gear. These motors pull, they don't buzz, so quick shifts/lower rpm drop isn't gonna help.

 

I mean, stock intake, as in the plenum is stock and unported, runners are stock, and base is stock and unported. the only work i've done was to polish the outside of everything.

And shifting into 4th actually works out quite well in a TPI car. I was a little skeptical at first, but it gets the rpm's down in the peak torque, right where the motors best at. Don't knock it til you try it.

By the way. with the weather a bit warmer yesterday, it knocked down a series of 13.01 and 13.02's at almost 105

 

Your MPH is why I do not believe your claims. 105mph through a STOCK TPI intake, through STOCK heads on a STOCK cam is unrealistic unless your local drag strip is down hill. Especially in a heavy GTA.

I had a 1996 Z28 that wast stock except a LPE cold air intake and SLP exhaust. It was a low option car and even had a 2.73 gear on GS-C tires. It ran a 13.52@104 and THAT was flying for an LT1!! It dyno'd 249RWHP and 288RWTQ shortly after these runs.

Sorry, I don't believe it.

 

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that the IHRA 2005 track of the year doesn't go down hill.

 

So Mat, what exactly do arrtibute a 10 mph increase in your ET too? You said the 52MM TB did nothing, what then helps you get nearly 105 mph from 95 stock?

I'm curious because I do beleive you and want to do what you have done to my vortec headed, 1.6RRs, slp runner and ported plenum, edelbrock headers, DIY prom and SLP CAI. I run 100-101 most days with a 1 day best of 103. My car runs really well, but I'd like to see 105 mph.

My car stock ran 89 mph, so in all honesty even you 95 mph is a little higher then normal, factory freak indeed!

 

Most of the stock cars I have seen run 89-92mph. The TPI has plenty of torque on the low end, but a STOCK intake (meaning: plenum,runners,base) cannot support a stock head/cam to 105mph. The top end HP to carry that heavy car through the traps that fast is not possible. HP, not TQ is what makes your trap speed. This is why a lightly modded 350 TPI car will easily hold with an LS1 car to approx 60mph, then the LS1 car blows it away and then will trap 105-108mph because the HP is there in the high end.

You would need approx 290-310 HP to get that car to run a 105mph. A stock head,cam,intake TPI WILL NOT make that kind of HP without a power adder. Therefore, I think you are spraying the motor or it has more work than you are willing to provide details for.

I am sure it would have been done by now. There are TPI Vette guys who have run 12's but cannot trap that high.

Like I said before, if you are using 1/8 mile times to calculate your 1/4 mile time, your TPI car falls off enough that it will be innaccurate.

I have been working in this quest for over 10 years and know TPI motors VERY well. I know your times are impossible with all the variables you have provided.

 

does every one understand how mph is calculated in the 1/4? The timers at the calculate the time between the 1000' mark and the 1320. Given distance(320ft) - "x" time to travel = mph(I'm not going through the whole formula). The lights don't always pick up the same area on the car, so it varies. Thats why mph can vary from track to track and from run to run, even with a consistent ET. - I have time slips with as high as 132 mph. Most of the time I'm seeing around 120-125.

Many have tried, several have failed, most simply gave up before they got there(dollars vs sense). Now we have some one who has been able to do it and all we do is flame.......

 

120-132 trap speed...impressive. As long as don't come back later and claim your SLIGHTLY modded 305 TPI did it ? LOL

 

also, if your front of the car sits low... your air damn could set off the lights early and make ur speed look faster or slower.

my track.. i trap 92-93 in the right lane, but 100 in the left lane. 87_TA has also seen variances like this between lanes at my track.


my car is seeing 100mph with just headers and catback and gutted airbox.. 3.27 gears and 2800stall. stock TPI stuff. so i think it could be possible to hit 102 in a better conditioned car with good gearing and such.

but 105 seems a stretch unless that going into overdrive during the 1/4 run does actually help alot.

either i should throw in some 4.10's and try it, or GTA matt get your car dyno'd to really see what power its putting down.

 

Shifting into O/D will actually slow you down. It is not an acceleration gear. You do not want a 700R4 to leave third gear the big end of a dragstrip.

 

If all you care about is 1/4. Id put some 3.73's in. I think those are the lowest gear you can run with a 700r4 without shifting into OD by the end of the 1/4. I wouldnt go over 3.45 but thats just me. Gas isnt cheap lol

 

Ok now that I have read through all this I'm throughly prepared to call BS when I still had my stock intake on my car the best time I got it to run was a 14.45 at 96.93 mph with a best mph of 97.91 this was with a fresh (less than 5k miles) 350 40 over with vortec heads edelbrock headders (that are junk btw more on that later) 3.45 gears and a stick in a formula so I had a lighter car with more mods on it and still am not anywhere near the claimed 12.9 granted my 60 ft times were high (about 2.2)

Since then I have gone to HSR with changing just the tpi to HSR I ran consistant low 14s high 13s in the 100mph range now after changing my edelbrock headers to Hooker Longtubes and my 3 inch cat back for a 4 inch mufflex I only have gotten 1 run out of the car but ran 13.48 at 103.42 with a 2.037 60ft

Now I know my 60fts are slower than the car in question here but what I cant understand Is how with as many mods as I have on a much lighter car (with more than likely a lighter driver too) how It could possibly be slower than a car thats only advantages are a 3.73 gear and an auto with a shift kit it doesent add up

The only other bolt on thirdgen I have seen run besides mine was another black formula (I think wingers) and it had slp runners slp headers and a dr and I still wasent running as fast as mine it doesent make add up maybe if the car was gutted with a converter and long tubes but with the mods you say it has it seem verry unlikely

 

Left it in 3rd one pass last year (pulled it into second for the burnout and only bumped the shifter up once, woops) and lost a tenth, crossing the line at 5200 in third. Like I said the motor is done at 5k.


Oh, just for laughs and to see more bs flags, my girlfriend races my truck, 2004 Dodge Ram regular cab with a Hemi. I tow my car to the track unhook the truck and tell her to have at it. With her, one of her friends and a full tank of gas, it runs 14.30's at 96. Thats with the factory 20's. Mods are long tube headers, high flow cats and y-pipe, and 3.5 inch exhaust. Superchips tune, K&N intake and throttle body spacer. True story

 

formula350sd - mid 14's with vortecs? ouch! I know of atleast 2 cars on stock heads that went into 13.7X range with exhaust and a cam, nothing else.
- to all else. He may be right. 3.73 - 4.XX gearing and use OD may work for a TPI car. Think about it. Put it in OD and make it pull. With lower gears you could easily pull a .70 OD ratio...
- "mods" in sig

 

can't wait for you to put the 4.56's in. With your car that should put u into the 11's easy!!
LOL, just messing with ya

 

Im running a very small cam (stock LT-4) with stock rockers gets awesome mileage but isnt exactly the hottest performer

 

remember location makes the difference.... weather/altitude, density altitude. all those factors can change. a mild bolt on L98 might only do 14.3 at 96 in one area.. then in another in good cold weather might do high 13's at 99.

you never really know

what we need here is complete info on the conditions the day of the runs. temp, humidity, altitude/density altitude and compare those to other cars running in similar conditions

 

The car is just setup perfect and thats all there is to it. Congrats Matt. I'd kill to be near your ET's when i go to the track in a couple weeks....


awesome job

 

I agree with that totally.
Also he is a GM tech that thing must be tuned to the hills.

 

This is just funny

 

I'm running a stock L98 cam, get great gas mileage, run mid to high 13s and with an auto....you should be faster then 14s with vortec heads and a manuel. What's your MPH?

 

i just now remembered a magazine article on a bolt on 86 l98 corvette. it had headers, catback, throttle body, and some other minor things

they did some chip tunning and ended up picking up nearly 30 hp.

theres alot left on the table with a tune, even for bone to the paper filter stock. bolt on mods will be better bang for the buck with a good tune just for them. most guys with bolt ons dont have custom tunes.. i'm curious to see what some great tunning will do on mild L98s. i always thought these cars werent as bad performing as everyone makes them out to be. i think tune is mainly where its at.

but i dont think that the hypertech chip he is running is the answer LOL the biggest gains are seen from the 1.6 rockers combined with abit more fuel from AFPR. electric waterpumps have been proven to add alot of hp. same with pullies. smog/ac delete will reduce weight as well as add some power. i'm willing to bet you stand a better chance making more power with those mods than TPI bolt ons like runners/base/plenum porting

the hardest thing to believe is the 1.7 60's on stock converter. the torque arm helps i'm sure but damn.. thats impressive. thats TPI low torque for ya.

i'd like to see what ur car would do with a converter. should rip off 1.6 60's easily although taking some top end power

 

TunedPort 335 - she'll get there. You're still getting more and more outta that combination...it just takes money!. - Still a sweet car.

formula350sd - i still can't believe you don't have better numbers than that....

 

with the stock intake i ran a best of 98 mph

With big headers 4in cat back and hsr its run 103 and thats the only run I got out of it b4 my headers ate my battery cable
----------
street tires suck and im pitchin that motor in the trash can i got some new **** 4 this season well see how it does

 

- still plenty of cars going 1.9X or better on street tires. I was cutting 1.82's on 255 Fulda's, now 1.66 on 315 nitto dr's.... Don't thow it out, just figure out whats up with it. Did you degree the cam in? can make a huge difference.
- check Matt's old thread and look at his 60's on street tires/factory wheels...you'd be amazed at what can be accomplished with the right suspension tune/driving
- sorry to be off topic

 

actually im trading it to a friend of mine (plus install) for one with forged internals and heads set up for more lift so im gonna get that togeather and hopefully cut my first 12.x this season

 

with good track prep I run 1.91-1.92 60ft on my street tires. it's all in the suspension. I've boxed everything and install oply bushings + frame connectors.

Car went from 2.1 60ft with high 14s and 91-92 mph to 1.9x 60ft running high 13s@100+ mph. My 2.1 was spinning and now the 1.9 barely spin. All this on the exact same rear tires, so obviously my suspension work has paid off. Now I'm going to install a 9.5" 2800 torque converter this spring. I'm hoping to brake into the 1.7x range with drag radials after that...

To me Matts MPH and 60ft are really impressive numbers, ET is a factor of those...1.7x 60ft on stock converter is insane. I honestly don't see how he's accomplished that with the knowledge and experience I have. For example, a used to own a 1978 Trans Am with a strong running 455. Car ran 12.7@107 mph with 1.8 60ft on Mcreary's (275/60/15) not spinning with the stock torque converter. That 455 had easily 100+ ft/lb more then a 350 tpi but a very similar torque curve and hp curve. When my brother bought this car off me and installed a race torque converter he got 1.62 60ft.

Again I believe Matt, but I can't figure out how he's managed those times, because they are truely very impressive.

 

I cut a 1.900 on 275/40/17 Yokohama A520's with heavy azz RONAL Firehawk wheels. On a drag radial, I bet at least a 1.800 or would have been possible, which would have meant a 13.30-ish time slip.

 

glad to here another person with fuldas... so far i have hit 1.88 with my 245 Fulda carat extremo's. i wanted 255's but they didnt have them in stock and i needed tires bad, so i got 245's. these tires hoook pretty darn good

 

Thats great Matt,,,I can believe it. Some of these cars run better than others. I am surprised at my 88 Iroc and I am not even finished yet. Mine went 99.xx mph with only exhaust, 1.6 rockers and adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and I am doing it with 2.77's. I ran 13.92 last weekend at 99 mph with some 14.0's mixed in but trapped 99 mph consistently. I beleive it will break 100 mph with some gears. And I am still running a stock chip, stock everything else, stock converter, stock intake system etc....mine has never been opened up other than valve seals and rocker arms. I did this on stock rubber as well,,,,with stickies there is atleast 2-3 more tenths left in the car,,,I could only 60 foot in the 2.10 range with mine on stock tires.
With a good tune, more gear, sticky tires, I think low 13's are easily obtainable with my car as well as running over 100 mph, so why should I doubt Matt with his high 12 to 13 flat car?
These cars are stereo typed as being somewhat slow, and I must admit I was not impressed with mine when it was a bone stocker,,,man what a difference the exhaust makes on these things.
I had 2 different guys at the track come up to see the car after my first 13 second pass, they were shocked it ran that well,,,seems these cars have a poor reputation,,,,too bad.
Thumbs up Matt,,,,very cool, glad to hear it. I will soon be on my way to doing the same thing,,,,I beleive it's possible,,,I just need a little more time.,,,,,Larry.

 

I'll trade you throttle bodies for mystock one..

 

dude, I'm running 11.7X's on a hyper pistons and a GM cast crank. She's seen 7600 a couple times, regularly sees 7200. It's got 4340 h-beams, but I was running low mid 12's with a flat-tappet and 5140 I-beams. I only switched rods cause I got a really good deal, and I had it down changing cams and checking everything out.
- as far as Matt's car, I'm telling you guys the set-up of the car, and the conditions. Everything just works well together, and he knows how to drive it for everything it's got.
- several of the cars on this board would be much faster with a better 60ft, but, whether it be driver or vehicle, they just haven't managed it. 1.9X's are attainable on stock suspension and tires, you just have to find it. Many have done it, so its there.....

 

I know but im bassicall stealing this stuff and want it for if i decide to put a garden hose on the car later this season or next

 

Good work GTA Matt. Mate i beleive it. The first time i took my car to the track i ran 14.08 @ 96.xx havent done it again though. Thats with exhaust street tyres lowered suspension air foil and air pump delete, no air cleaner. 60ft was about 2 flat. I Have run sl;ightly better 60fts.
Utilising 4th must help a lot as well as that 60ft. You are spending more time your peak hp/tq range. I think better driving, matching of the combination is the key. Obviously you know your car well.
What is your air like i ran my best at just over 1000ft add another 300ft and my times are back to high 14.2/3s.
Anyway, WELL DONE.

 

i guess with overgearing the 700r4 so u run into overdrive must essentially make it a 4speed manual thus making your gear ratios pretty close

if it does work great, thats awesome.. but i do too much driving to do that

 

I believe it.. traction, suspension,shift kit,hedders,catback, reduced acc drag,51-52fuel psi, unhooking the knock sensor and cranking the base timing helps if you are using a stock chip with these cars.. I picked up 4-5mph just breaking out the timing light..
Its easy to do this, just takes time to sort out your combo..

 

well i was browsing around for torque arms and this thread cam up and i figured i'd add to it.

i finally made some passes on my slicks and hooked and my 60 foots were 1.80-1.83 or so. this is with 2800 stall and 3.27 gears

i also now have a broken trans mount bushing or i beleive so cuz the trans is moving around on first gear launches and downshifts/upshifts at low speeds.

i'm sure with a torque arm and new bushing i could hit 1.75-1.80s pretty consistantly

i just now find it very hard to see how one could pull off a 1.75 60 foot on stock converter with a mild bolt on L98. that just seems unreal. my buddies full bolt on L98 goes 13.6x's at 100mph on 1.90-1.95 60 foots with stock converter and 3.70 gears on street tires. he says he can mash it off the line and not spin tire! slicks would show almost no improvement in that situation cuz hes using everything he has now. how do you pull off 1.7 60's without having lots of power on stock converter ? lol thats very impressive

 

Did you happen to write down the code on the original GM Torque convertor sticker? Why you ask, well its very simple. You couldn't possibly have a 1200 rpm stall from the factory with a 350 tpi motor. If the car is original than the sticker code will tell us all that you have a factory high stall convertor. (all or most of the 350's have them, if you don't then yours has been replaced at one time or another by some inexperienced tranny guy)The "B" and "C" code convertors stall at 2000rpm. Code "E", "H", and "K" stall at 1200-1400(bottom feeder Lg4 and such). Codes "E" & "F" stall at 1611-1654(found in 305TPI cars), . Check your 4 digit code on the convertor tag, its the(4) letters portion of the 8 digit numbered tag. Letter number 2 will give you your stall range. This fact is a definite help to your claims of all stock.

 

i believe it is stock i mean sh it happens... so don't knock it.....

 

Who is anyone here to call him a liar? Unless you have seen the car in person how do you know? It does sound a bit unbelievable, but if the car is setup right and works then more power to ya!

I know of one 1990 Iroc that was completely stock and ran 13.9 @ 99mph. The "mods" done to the car were removal of the A/C, and he ran a smaller belt avoiding the tensioner. This belt just fit!! He had to remove the alternator to get the belt on. He had a set of 28 x 11.5 e/t streets. And the torque arm was adjusted to get the front of the car up and transfer weight better. Other than that it was a fully optioned, full weight 350 TPI'ed Iroc with 30,000 km (about 18,000 miles).

So too shave a second and add a few mph might not be that unbelievable afterall?

 

even that 13.9 at 99 stock time is hard to believe.. since he was running 28inch tall tires. i dont think thats possible to trap 99mph. the rear gears are 3.27 or 3.23's with the best option from factory, but with 28inch tall slicks that wide, the car wouldnt want to move. it would gear the car down sooo much. i lost about 2mph going to 26x10.5 ET streets from my 25.7inch street tires that were worn down to proby 25.5 or less. 99 seems way high for a car like that on 28's.

 

Wow, this got dragged up from the dead. Anyhow, I challenge anybody to see if they can get in the car and powerbrake it past 1100 without either sliding the fronts or spinning the rears. I just got back from a shoot with GM high tech yesterday, so read the magazine in a few months and you will see how stock it is.

 

Was just trying to help support your claim. Its good info in any event.

 

I don't mean to beat a horse that's been dead for over a year....but

I can't believe no body picked up on the biggest "mod" of all. He is running absolutely NO accesories other than an alternator. I've heard of guys picking up over 2 tenths just droping the power steering belt. Get rid of the a/c, air, and water pumps and you have a recipe to knock some serious time off. I bet a half a second and 5 mph is because of this alone. LOL, he even has underdrive pulleys for the alternator.

Then you look at the fact that he removed the biggest restriction on these cars with the exhaust. He's probably making close to 450 ft/lb's of torque, hook that through some deep gears and you are going to be moving down the track.

I think it's possible, hopefully he ran the car for the magazine guys and they can vouch for the stockness.

 

I was at the GM high tech shootout with Matt on 8/1. All I can say is his car ran very strong. I can't see inside his engine but it def had stock plenum,runners,base with Iron heads. Anyway it was nice meeting you Matt but the 104 temps at the track plus high humidity took alot of fun out of the event. Wish they did the shootout in Oct. when the temps will be in the 60's

 

You can do the "Cecil Mod" and run at Cecil County raceway in MD where everything runs super quick.

 

I just have .4 to go and alittle more tuning and thats on 17 inch heavy rims, and unopened engine as far as i know, i wouldnt consider him having stock heads because of the roller rockers, still impressive times.