1992rs/ss

well I just got back from SEMA and let me tell you if you ever get a chance to go, do it. I stopped by the BBK display booth to see if they had a prototype of the intake and there was nothing. I asked about what was going on and I found out quite a lot.

first off, it turned out that the guy I was talking to was the co-owner and head engineer, Kenneth Murphy. it turns out that the base manifold has been done for over 8 months now, but the new mustang intake took presidence over the tpi setup. the new setup will be similar to the tpi in that it it will have 8 runner tubes with the left side tubes feeding the right head and vice versa. what sill be different is that they will be 8 seperate tubes that actually just pop into the base manifold with rubber o-rings. a plenum will then pop on top of this. basically it will be similar to the superram in looks. the setup will re-use the original throttle body and fuel rails. the base will have an egr provision for both the corvette and f-body passages and re-use the egrs for those setups. the base will also come drilled for both early and center bolt heads. there won't be many bolts involved to put this together as he agreed with me that putting the tpi and superram setups together is a PIA!!!!!

now, neither the runner tubes nor the plenum have been designed yet so this is where we come in. he gave me his email address and wants me to get back to him on what features we might want. he had said they were even thinking about making the setup so the runners would be VARIABLE LENGTH. for those of you that don't know what that can do for you, it is quite a nice feature. I mentioned to him that a vortec style base would be a big help for those running the fastburn heads, but he wants to know more about the setups you guys would like to run with this, especially power bands your looking for.

along with this he is curious about what other things we would like for third gen f-bodies, particularly headers and cold air intake kits. I told him a nice set of longtubes that dosen't drag on the ground when lowered would be great but do you guys want shorties instead? do you guys want air tubes on your headers? Y-pipes?

these are all things he wants to know so post your thoughts on what you want from BBK.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

we need another company other than SLP to make 1 3/4 inch primary shorty headers.. WITH AIR for us smog people...

for the intake.. a power band past 5500 rpm would be nice

for the tubes.. what is the stock diameter of the Accel large tube runners? needs to match that or go bigger.. need a big diameter for the tube runners..

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

variable length would be awesome., and a super big plenum.

89 Iroc Z

I think it needs to be similar power band to the superam but pull a little past what the super ram pulls in terms of RPM's. There are plenty of options if you want a high RPM intake, like stealth ram, mini-ram, & LT1 intake so this intake should not be made for past 6000RPM. If peak power was at about 5500 RPM that would be great.

Stock TPI peaks at 4500, aftermarket TPI around 4800, and the superram at about 4800-5100 RPM.

Also my brother talked to ken's and got his email a year ago at last Sema and he asked to email him the same info but I never heard back from him, hope you have better luck. Maybe I will try emailing him.

89 Iroc Z

Why? Big plenum doesn't mean HP just because it's big. The whole intake has to match up in it's design.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Stock ID of Accel/AS&M runners is 1.66". I beleive stock TPI runner ID is 1.48"

I could be wrong though, its been a while since I measured the AS&M SS runners I had, but they are now gone anyways.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

i read somewhere, so tell me if im wrong, but i read that a plenum with the same CI as the engine was optimal for performance.

Rob Wade

I want it reasonably priced. There's lots of choice's out there for many different combinations but everyone's trying to get rich selling me one! Be reasonable about your product and your pricing and it will sell itself! My $.02

AZ406TPI

iTrader: (2)

im actually surprised no 1 has came up with a LSX style intake for those who have older engines. *pre 97 ls1's*

6SpeedTA95

I really think steady power to 6000 RPM is what is needed. The FIRST intake appears to provide this but even it has a bit of fall off above 5500 or so. Granted its not much at all but it does start to fall off. We need something that preserves much of the low end grunt but allows us to build a motor that will rev to 6k without falling all over itself. If peak power numbers can be attained around 5500 to 5800 that would give us usable power to probably 6500, and easily 6000. This might be enough to strike a good balance between low end brute force and good passing power.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

as long as the runners are big enough to feed a 350 to the 5500-6000rpm range and really support 383, 406's to about 5000-5500 would be realllly nice. basically runner length about that of a superram, maybe abit shorter. superram can support over 5500rpms

FerrMaro

OMG. Tell them to go with a DUAL PLENUM intake!!! Just like the Mustangs....Hawt. Variable length runners are a great idea too. ™


Edit: I dont want a side mounted TB though...

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

It won't be an LSX style intake because of the head runner locations. LSx/big block are evenly spaced. SBCs runners are one -two- one.

Basically they're no closer to doing this than they were a year ago.

Finish it!!!! That's what I would like to see!

Axoid

I would like an intake that can work into the 6000 rpm range with a 400 hp 350 and will still fit under a stock hood with a strut tower brace. Right now my only choices are MiniRam (expensive) or SuperRam (pain in the butt and pricey). Variable length runners might be nice.

I haven't started on my new motor yet, but will some time in the next 6 months.

1 3/4 headers with and without air tubes would be nice, but I'll stick with shorties for my autocross car. It would be nice is someone just made the parts for cold air kits available so some could design their on layouts.

Chrome

With the Stealthram available for $650 I see no reason for another intake that will not net much more or less?

Unless people just want it for the cool factor I can't see them beating Holley's price and mass production of that unit.

Holley has this market pretty much wrapped up.

3.8TransAM

They would get a lot of the market for one reason.

Clearance clearance clearance. Also if true about reusing stock fuel rails, it might even come in a little cheaper than the stealthram.

I would love something to clear a stock firebird hood.

Or if it indeed is made using o-rings for sealing componenets, it could also be a modular style intake and you could make changes down the road without disturbing the base :-)

I would like to see what they do.

I want to see a picture of the base and stock fuel rails on it at this point too, and myabe we would all take it more serioulsy.

Mods, please move this to the alternative efi board for some better coverage

later
Jeremy

Chrome

Still...

$1000 for the setup at LEAST using the stock fuel rails. Holley can mass produce and has enough Casting relations they can make the lower part of the base super cheap.

1992rs/ss

I would like to point out that the Ken never said it was going to be 1000 for the setup. I asked him about price and he said they are looking to compete with HSR so 600-700 for the setup is what they are looking to do

FerrMaro

Nobody likes the dual plenum idea? I really think it would be exotic looking. ™

1992rs/ss

as far as his idea towards the plenum he said he was thinking "flat and round" as he put it

doc

BBK should design an LSx type intake. It can be designed as one-two-one setup. The LSx's have great breathing, great bottom end and top end. I have been asking for this type of design for over a year ago.

What we do NOT need is another TPI business with tubes.

1992rs/ss: can you give me that guys email at BBK?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Eh, I dunno. If ya look at the LSX intakes, they're all evenly spaced, left bank, right bank, left bank etc. They're evenly spaced just like the head runners. With staggered head ports, the even space runners on the LSX intake wouldn't fit, or they'd have to be different lengths for different cylinders.

Not saying it CAN'T be done, but I just don't see how. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it!!!

ULTM8Z

So the big question is, when is it due out?

I found this saying that it was supposed to be out early this year...

http://www.bbkperformance.com/news-archives.shtml

doc

An LSx's type intake is definately possible. I have worked in a pattern/mold shop in the past. I can design this myself. I would need backing and a design shop. But, I can do it!

1992rs/ss

well seeing as how they already made the base intake manifold it will be a "tubes"style intake. the shape and size of the plenum are still up in the air, but I doubt they are going to start over from scratch.
as for when it will come out, he basically said realistically sometime next summer as they are going to prob. go through a few variations. this is taking so long to be developed because let's be honest, there is more money in the new mustang stuff then there is our cars, and I can't fault him for that reasoning. he was also under the opinion that this was a product of limited appeal as he said where they are, people don't seem to give our cars the time of day. when I told him how many members our "little" web community has and how much interest there was in their new intake just from our site, he was legitimately suprised. his tone and amount of interest in the topic completely changed. he started asking all sorts of questions about what we wanted. in all honesty I really don't think they had any clue how anticipated this intake is.

IROCThe5.7L

Anyone have an idea how much improvement this intake might make on a stock L98?

3.8TransAM

Lets see the supposed base they have done already and it fitted with stock fuel rails :-)

Until then we should keep our mouths shut.

I am more than willing to work with them on whatever they need to make this intake.

I also here alot of talk and no actual proof.

later
Jeremy

6SpeedTA95

considering its not out yet and they've been talking about it for a while and have yet to do anything, no you can't speculate because it hasn't been designed. If you want an intake there are plenty of them out there for the TPI cars. Stealth Ram is the best for revving and building power. FIRST appears to be the best while maintaining the LTR setup.

89 Iroc Z

Why?? I don't care how it looks as much as it preforms. There is no point to add something for the sole purpose of making it look cool, it just doesnt make sense. Making dual plenum will make the intake take up alot more room, more complex, cost more, and doesn't really give you a performance benefit.

The whole intake design has to match for it to preform well. You can't just through stuff together and expect it to be some magic intake. There has to be a lot of well though out design time, then much testing to prove the design actually works as intended then go back and refine the design. Over and over...

89 Iroc Z

I really hope they changed the angle the air enters the head. On TPI intake the air enters the head at too large of a angle and hits the top wall of the intake port in the head instead of a straight shot to the valve. I wish we could get a picture of the base.

cali92RS

You guys are funny.
Everytime someone posts anything about this supposed BBK intake, everyone goes nuts.
Do you think this guy is going to sit in front of a computer screen, with his little notebook and pen, and jot down all of your ideas, so he can design a "perfect" manifold for us thirdgen enthusiasts
What business sense would that make when they have new Mustangs, new Vettes, new GTO's etc? What incentive is there to design a new manifold,all the R&D, the tooling, etc for a car that hasnt been made for 14 years?

89 Iroc Z

Because there is a market for more EFI manifolds for gen-I SBC's. This intake would be used on a whole lot more then just thirdgens. It will be used on corvettes and a lot of DIYers who convert older SBC cars to EFI.

Your right it's not a huge market or anything but there still is money to be made if done right.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

its not just for our cars.....


TPI is one if not the only way to go fuel injection for cheap for alot of project cars... from street rods to muscle cars to trucks.. its very popular swap for many cars

ppl use TPI setups and HSR/miniram/etc on their small block chevys and use TPI harness or DFI for their projects...

this BBK design will be good for all small block chevys. it offers another affordable alternative to fuel inject your small block over expensive MPFI setups, but providing better performance than TPI longtubes. cheaper and easier to install than superam... more clearance than HSR and possibly smog legal.

i think its well worth it to spend time on R&D.

and i hope it looks good too. cars gotta look good too as well as perform.

6SpeedTA95

Yup, I think thats exactly right...there is a fairly significant GEN I market out there.

cali92RS

Who said its going to be any of those things IF it comes out?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

read the begining post and all the posts on this BBK intake....


thats what all the rumors are saying.... competes with the HSR price wise and will be abit better performing than LTR TPI setups...

thats all we can go by

cali92RS

Exactly, rumors...
Wasn't there a song in the 80's about rumors?

I'll buy you all a cookie if it comes to be

Red Devil

I'd like to see an actual manifold for cryin' out loud. All the BS that BBK has been throwing out... I'll probably avoid buying it at this point to boot.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'll take chocolate chip

yeah i know its just rumors but atleast we can hope... i have confidence that bbk can pull it off.. they made a nice mustang intake

Red Devil

A nice mustang intake? According to whom? 'Pretty' maybe.

6SpeedTA95

The mustang intake looks great, but the stock intake flowed decent and some of the aftermarket intakes even those offered by ford perform very well and I dont know a single mustang guy with the BBK intake.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

hmmm i thought i heard some good stuff about BBK......oh well

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

3 words: Polish, paint, chrome.

....not that I want a dual plenum, but It'd be cool if it looked cool. The TPI is so good looking as is, but just needs to perform. IMHO, the MR/LT1 is boring and the HSR not all that great a looker in my book. Appearance AND performance are needed to get my dollar.

6SpeedTA95

Good point, what do you think of the "FIRST" intake? What could bbk do to improve on this intake? It seems to be a great intake in that it retains the stock look but provides a lot more power above 4500 rpm.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I Like the first, but not as much as a TPI. Still, it looks good, and I've considered it.

I think a wider TPI plenum with larger runners would be cool. Or MUCH bigger runners, similar to the 92 concept runners on the anniversary heritage car.

I'm not sure why no company ever casted something similar to those. I guess SLP is the closest, but they're still not the same.

IROCThe5.7L

Yea, but the SR requires a new fuel rail...etc Not to mention I read some posts on here how switching from TPI to a SR on a stock L98 was not worth it.

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

man whenever i read a post about this BBK intake i just shake my head.
people act as if they are the ONLY aftermarket intake available,i do agree that a few more selections should be available but to be sitting,waiting and anticipating an intake that uses the stock fuel rail,regulator design and not its new modern technology you may as well get a superram and be done with it!
factory ltr design
slp,as&m,tpis runners
edel/accel/tpis base
slp t-ram(good luck finding!)
tpis mini ram
LT1 conv. intake
HSR
how many more choices do you really need all these intakes can run very good ETs when mated to the proper combo and to all you vortec head users out there you can use any of these intakes as-well all you do is have the bolt pattern drilled into the head for the conventional head after-all SCOGGIN-DICKEY sells the vortec L31 head re-drilled
the BBK mystery intake has been beaten to death by its own illusion of the "something better idea"besides if it looks like the one for the rustang an ugly copy of a VIPER intake i would pass on that!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well for starters, superram is a PITA to work on and install, and expensive. superram is the only smog legal alternative that has good performance.

TPI can do 12's but its abit harder to pull off than the other intakes. trap speeds arent that good with TPI and i care about gettin some good performance.

if this bbk intake provides superram rpm ranges, for less money, then its WELL worth the wait

1992rs/ss

not sure what all this attitude is about. It is not like the guys from BBK are lying here about what they are trying to do. the truth of the matter is that BBK is making a tpi type intake for gen-I small blocks, period. the only reason that development has stalled is because there is more money in making intake pieces for the new mustangs than there is in making one more MPF injection system for a chevy small block.

as far as market share goes, they get more share if they are the first to come out with new parts for new cars, then new parts for established cars. from a business sense they are doing the right thing.

I am not sure why anybody wants to cry about another intake option coming to market because if anything it will help lower prices on the other options already out there. I started this thread at Ken's request to give him some background info to what people are looking for. if your not really going to add anything but complants that you have had to wait so you won't buy it, please don't post here. thank you.

Red Devil

Ok Dir... wait, you're not him, thus, you don't own the board, so guess what, ANYONE can post here if they are a member. You can't do a damn thing about it, so stop trying to be pretentious.

Ever see a thread highjack? Congrats, you just did.

BBK has not been forthcoming with crap.They don't uphold their promises and they don't even have the courtesy to update their site to reflect anything.

And their Mustang POS manifold (IMO) is for the old 5 liter motors, what new mustang is using that? It certainly is not for the new Mustangs. Ford apparently wins again.