383 TF Heads. 219 cam and miniram?? I see on edelbrocks website about their LT1 combo with the 350, edelbrock 170 heads 218/218 560/560 112 cam and its pushing 400 hp and 375 torque. What would the miniram do for this combo? I figure the 219 and 383 could provide the TQ and the 195 TF heads and miniram could support upper power. I know the cam is critical but I feel the 219 cam can support upper power like shown in edelbrocks graph. Am I nuts?

 

What are you up to now??????

I guess we are not ever satisfied.

The miniram makes better power at higher RPMs. The 219 cam you suggest is not best for high RPM HP. The 383 should get you very good grunt (low RPM torque). I am not an expect on cams. If I was, maybe my 395 would be making more power. I would recommend a 224/230 or even more radical cam to match up with the miniram.

 

Oh i know another cam would be well suited. I'm just basing this off of Edelbrocks setup with a single pattern cam, semi small duration and a high RPM intake

 

Quick comment on the TF 195s: The TFs will probably not flow enough for you and should be ported a bit and cleaned up. The money spent on the TFs and more for porting work would justify buying AFRs from the get-go. just my 2 cents worth.

 

Oh I agree. My motor is all put together already. I have the TF's SR and 219. Got the heads new for 895 with upgraded springs 4 years ago so I stuck with them. i must say this combo causes tire burn lol. Takes 3 gears for it to hook lol

 

Have you ever had this car on a chassis dyno?

 

Have you ever had this motor/car on a chassis dyno?

 

Last year I had the stock 85K 350 with the TF heads, LT4 cam and SR. With stock chip and injectors it was at 274HP and 326 TQ.

This year is the 383 10:3:1 TF Heads SR and 219 cam. Also have LS1 injectors now and a somewhat custom chip. Motor now has about 2.5K on it now. I havent dynoed it or taken it to the track yet. I'm still figuring out detonation problems withteh chip burner. It doesnt like WOT. Car is sleeping for the winter but when it comes back out and we can tune more, I'll post some resluts.

 

Have any data to back that up? I did research a month ago on heads, and the only thing the trickflows didnt outflow were the AFRs, at about $600.00 cheaper. (in the 170-200cc range)

The Dart PRO1's had some impressive .600 lift intake #s, but the exhaust was bad, and the low lift points were too.

All in all, the trick flow seems like the ideal street/strip head.

-- Joe

 

I have the 195 TF Duttweiler heads. I talked to Brian Tooley at TEA and he recommended with my setup to run them and port down the road if I want more power and the combo changes. While we were talking I asked about the original TW heads and the flow #'s they list in the mags as being better than the inline ones I have. His response was he has read this too and from his flowbench he has always got better flow #'s out of the newer inline head than the old G1 head. Go figure

 

Let me clearify something. the Twisted G1 heads suck. Everyone I have talked to has complained about them. Infact, if I recall, I think trickflow has discontinued them.

If you want to roll the valve, angle mill the heads. Stay away from the G1s. (Not YOU, but people in general)

I'm refering to the 23* Kenny Duttweiler signature series. They rock.

-- Joe

 

No data, except for what was printed in Chevy High Performance magazine concerning flow rates of many heads. As you stated, the AFRs are very impressive.

I have AFR 190s on my new 395 cu in stroker. Along with a ported SR runners, and port match interfaces, I think I was flow restricted to 340 RWHP. The above 383 could be awesome with the TF 195s. I was just thinking that the miniram would flow plenty, any restriction would be at high RPM in the Trick Flows. As far as my motor is concerned, my main restriction is probably the intake base which was not ported, but is the Accel larger port intake base for TPIs.

 

Heres some of the CHP:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=265816

Looking at the flowdata from Tim's AFR 190s, the trickflows beat 'em up to .500 lift on intake. The AFRs were better on the exhaust.

I'm not going to say something foolish like trickflows are better than afrs. I'm going to say AFR's are a ripoff, and should be about $1100.00 with decent springs. The $5-600.00 more the AFR's cost, one could do home porting to get the trick flows close or exceeding the stock AFRs, and spend the money on good pistons.

-- Joe

 

anesthes:

I dont know where you are getting your flow comparison. The data base I go to has flowed several dozen heads of varying sizes on the SAME machine at the SAME test conditions. I do alot of testing as a mechanical engineer, it is important to compare stuff on the same level playing field, otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.

Check out the Chevy High Performance magazine site, select tech articles. You will see a tech article on cylinder head flow. Awesome comparison here.

You will see that the AFRs flow the highest amount at all valve lifts than any head between 180 to 199cc intake port volume, including the TF195s.

Comments: I had a set of trick flow G1s, yep they sucked, sold them. I argree with you about the AFR valve train. One would expect that $1500 heads would have bullet proof springs and rocker studs.

 

I used to have a set of TW G1 and they netted me 12.56 @ 113mph, but Brian Tooley ported them and gave false flow #'s in which I drove the car like that for 2 yrs. He told me they flowed 279 cfm @ .600, but when I had them reflowed this fall they flowed 241 cfm at a local shop and then I sent them to another shop to confirm. Needless to say Tooley flowed the heads before installing the new guides and did not cut down the new ones properly after installing them. And Brian didn't return any of my e-mails.

People can say whatever they want about Trickflow not being as good as AFR's. All I know is AFR's are over priced for what you get. Bang for your buck that's what people are looking for. I just sold my TW G1's 2 months ago and purchased a set of Trickflow Kenny Duwatler signiture series from summit. I went to summit and they had them on display, both the new casting and the old casting.I noticed right away that the new casting had no casting shift and little to no casting flash in the runners. So when I got them home for porting it was so easy to smooth out the ports with some help from a port and polish video. I can't believe I paid someone to port my heads when I could have been doing it the entire time. I was short on time so I didn't have them flowed. but I'm sure I picked up some flow after a week of porting, they flowed 258 cfm @ .600 out of the box. I'll try to get some photos up. Let me just say I'm very happy with my TF 195's and the car pulls like a beast even with the Wide Band showing 10.1:1, so I have some tuning to do on the dyno this spring. Can you say 11's.

 

Intake side

 

Exhaust side

 

I wouldn't say that the TF twisted wedge heads sucked (as far as flow numbers go). They flow in the ballpark, almost, with AFRs on the intake and the same as AFRs on the exhaust. The problem is that you can't run much lift with standard sbc valve relief pistons, which is a big problem, especially with roller cams (tend to have high lift). You can buy twisted wedge pistons and run high lift, but they're about $600 a set. You are also severly limited on which rocker types you can run. Or buy ones made for those heads.

 

A friend of mine (Bowtye8) ran this combo:
383
Edelbrock RPM heads ported and milled to 62cc
LPE 219 cam
MiniRam
58mm t-body
30 lb injectors
He ran consistent 11.60's with that combo.
He later switched to a solid roller 248/248 and went 11.30's!

I don't care what anyone says, a properly set up MR motor hauls azz!

www.geocities.com/dzperf

 

There is a comparison of both intakes with the 219 cam on this site: http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8/85vette.html

Stay with the superram, it is a better intake for an auto car, and you will miss the torque loss. This is from someone who has run both intakes.