Cat59

Ban?? What? And cut your nose off in spite of your face? Na, don't ban the dude. A good hand of poker can take a while to play out.

Give the dude his props. He's been called out already. It's time to wait and see now.

1tpi

I think he was joking

subliminal

iTrader: (1)

JulieGTA

How about some hypothetical pictures?
Like, photoshop your own interpretation!
This thread isn't nearly long enough...

(runs for cover)

danziger

FWIW, if it will clear the Vette hood, I will buy one. I have a mild 383 and would love to see how this intake performs. You can't beat the price. Now if the price ends up being $800...

Burnout91

If it performs as preliminary tests indicate, AND is CARB approved, AND holds the price stated, they will sell (at least 1, to me).
Bill
P.S.: Happy 4th of July! G B A!

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

If It performs as tests indicate, and can use stock fuel rails/comes with it's own fuel rails, AND it stays at the price stated I'll buy one.

gmgod

So uhh....... Where dem pics?

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Took to long for me, I bought a Stealth Ram; I know what it looks like and it'll be here in a week

scribbles

First post ---- 10-29-2004, 06:58 AM
Last post ---- 7-7-2007, 01:12 PM

Talk bout delayed gratification almost 3 years.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

If you understood how long it actually takes to think up, design, develop, prototype, cast, build, refine, install, and dyno a new intake manifold, you wouldnt have such an ungrateful attitude.

I am happy someone is building a new thirdgen intake manifold, and am hoping it actually comes out for us to purchase. If you cant be patient, then be quiet, please. Throwing out nasty comments only makes the developer question why he would bother to build something that people are quick to bash.

Kids today... such short attention spans.

charlie31603

iTrader: (10)

I'm happy also that they are doing a new intake. But I just want pictures. His boss said after they dyno it. Well it's been dyno'ed now. I just want to see what it will look like. I like the way it performs, and if it looks good. I will wait and deal with the stock piece till it takes them so long to make it available to the market. But if it looks but ugly. I'll just move onto something else now and not wait around. I'm sorry if it makes me look like I have a short attention span. But..... Oh look a penny!

Jeffrey Fontaine

While I agree with you (except they're not going to stop developing a product if a customer is nasty, every company cares about $$$), you also have to put it in perspective. If they took 3 years to even dyno an intake for the GenIII motors, they would have a hole the size of China in their market share. Things like this are what slows down the process:
"I got it started and running today, but they sent me on a delivery truck run that took most of the day. Unfortunately, having been a chauffuer for 5 years, and a mechanic/technician for 13 years (on and off, but mostly on) over- qualifies me to do alot more than just wrenching at BBK...... "

Do you think they send engineers at NASA on a pizza run just because the guy knows how to drive???

It all boils down to this - the engine has been dyno'd, so maybe Bryan can print out this very long thread, and show it to his boss. I am just like at least a dozen people that have posted to this thread and are waiting to buy an intake, or can no longer wait. For the most part, all we have gotten are empty promises and scant descriptions. Its like selling a used car (cash talks, walks).

It is very simple to keep everyone interested, EXCITED, and waiting rather than dropping coin on a new FIRST, SR, or HSR. Post pictures, listen to our input (rarely do you get such direct communication from potential customers), and keep us updated on realistic expectations for dates and cost.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Wow well writen and summed up. I don't think it can be said any clearer than that.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I guess I look at it differently, because I have been thru the design, R&D, and roll-out process at my last job. We're not talking about a Gen3 intake for today's hot cars/trucks, we're talking about a 20 year old TPI intake. Face it, we're yesterdays news and not on the front burner. I can be patient because I am still building my new engine. But I can sympathize with you guys who have an engine ready to go, because we went thru this with my dad and the Vortec TPI intake. It was a year of waiting later before he could install his engine.
If you have an engine ready to go into your car and no patience, I wouldnt wait for this intake manifold. I'd say its at least another 6 months to a year before its out.

Zipdrive

Previously built and designed intake manifolds as a business. Everything was done in-house except the dyno testing.

Design - required reverse engineering (i.e. measuring) the interfaces, port size, runner lengths, runner taper, etc. Build surface models, run computational fluid dynamic sims, modify based on results and repeat till convergence goals (both design goal and the numerical computational goal) are met. Took about a month give or take a week.

Build prototype molds, and prototype manifold - 2 to 4 weeks. TEST prototype unit - 1day.
Analyze data and rework as necessary - this could range from no effort to holy **** that was bad, try again.

My point is that they have ample time to come out with a manifold and the dyno graph showed good results for a stock pos motor. They did not loose the bottom end by 50% and gain 2% on top. They had decent gains throughout the power band and extended the top end which is what "the collective we" have been wanting for a TPI based manifold. If you see a manifold from them in the next year, I would be extremely surprised. You are suppose to build up the hype just before you release a product so the excitement carries the orders in the first part of production.

They have a prototype. It made some hp. It breathed well up top. We won't see one anytime soon.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed.

... and the wheeeeeeel, goes roooooouuuuuund. <sigh>

TPI

Where is our "deepthroat" informant from BBK anyway?

Haven't seen him post since, ..well since the Dyno results!

gmgod

I agree with the previous poster that said there should'nt be that much of a delay if the prototype tested well. It did, what changes would need to be made? It made good power, it's an intake for a freakin sbc, if the intake and coolant ports are good to go, the runners seal, and everything bolts together, what else is there?

Bryan Rogers

"What else is there" is the problem.

There is the lone R&D machinist on his 2 week vacation (lucky bastard) who is the only person here that can make the modifications that were are palnning before the next dyno tests.

There is a SHelby GT 500 (Headers, CAI, TB proto)

There is an '02 Zo6 (Longtubes and X-pipe proto)

There is an episode of Horsepower TV being filmed on Aug -02 (whole shop is turned upside down to get it cleaned and organized).

And then there is the boss' dad's 06 Charger (longtubes, X-pipe, CAI) which requires immediate and undivided attention from the very moment it pulls in the shop (honks the horn when he gets here like it's drive through oil change or something) otherwise he will make my life VERY uncomfortable until the project is finished as he sits and watches the whole time the car is here.

There are 4 new products that are waiting for me to write installation instructions for before they can be released.

I can go on......

I'm doing the best I can, but there are too many other thing s going on to have fulll time focus on one project (drives me nuts)

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Brian for the update. Remember three things.

1. Have a radius on the roof and floor of the intake runners where the intake manifold meets the head.

2. Have enough meat around the intake manifold runner ports especially at the head where we can grind out the material for higher flow and proper shape with the bigger and built motors.

3. Have enough meat around the runners themselves so we can also grind them out for higher flow for the bigger and built motors.


This will put you well ahead of the competition.

Thanks, Allen

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the update Bryan. I hope that helps people understand.

86IROCTHD

thats why i bought a 4th gen loved my 83z, 86iroc, 88 trans am but a cam only genIII making 395/381 at the wheels with JUST a cam and exhaust... is why i got rid of mine... everyone just swap in ls1-ls7 and be done with it... j.k i loved the older cars thats why i did an lt1intake coversion... but just didnt get what i wanted out of it

Cat59

Looks like you're playing a pretty fair hand of poker Byran. Can I get a "Amen Brother"?

Zipdrive

Bryan,

I think that your last post pointed out the product development schedule for the TPI manifold. There are too many other programs at BBK that are of higher priority because the market share is bigger and more exciting (hence quicker to recoup NRE and NRM and thus starting to see revenue going to profit).

If man power is in issue at this point, it will continue to slide down the priority pole, as a dead program. I am not trying to be mean, just pointing out the basic business trends of product development.

Tom.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

:chanting: PICS! INFO! PICS! INFO! PICS! INFO! :/chanting:

Bryan Rogers

O.K. I just got done dyno testing the new upper portion of the prototype intake.

What we did was re-shape the area behind the throttle body to open it up more.

The first design worked well (previous dyno graphs are in post #314 of this thread) but I felt that area could use some work since it looked like a bottle neck with the naked eye.

The results?
RED line is the initial design.
BLUE line is the re-shaped inlet.
Horsepower

Torque

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Not bad, I look forward to this intake even though I don't own a TPI car anymore (lt1 baby)

Some excellent gains.

BTW, these dyno runs did not have any ECM tuning did they? If they did you'd see bigger gains that what has been show before.

Any chance we can get a look at the Air/Fuel curves?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Looking good. Looks like power was added throughout the rpm range.

Just make sure when you are done that there is enough material in the throttle body area so that we can open it up to 58mm or a monoblade.

Bryan Rogers

No tuning was done for these tests.

The timing was the same for all tests.

It was basically a back to back test with all of the same parameters.

A/F ratio was monitored, but not recorded (Innovate LM1 handheld).

The next round of testing will be on a modified car so we can see what she will really do.

Stay tuned
----------
Being a high RPM intake design, we already made sure to make the throttle body openings 58mm

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Being a high RPM intake design,"


Sounds like music to my ears. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Bryan, looks awesome!

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Wanna use my car for testing? My Super Ram intake and manifold is already off.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

Is this testing on a 305ci motor? Max power looks like it peaked close to stock. The power seems to drop off quickly. How does this intake differ from stock? My 350 dyno'd higher than that in stock form.

KenV

Given how that Z is modded, that'd be a good scalability test.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

norcalz28, the BBK testing is on a chasis dyno and is rear wheel horse power. The horsepower quoted by GM is on an engine dyno.


Bryan, Vincents car would be a good test bed for a high horsepower setup. He has one of the fastest Third Generation cars around. It just needs a better intake system for more power. It already has cam, heads and an excellant exhaust system.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

1989GTATransAm, my car made 214 rwhp stock, with much more solid torque and hp cures across the power band. I am not seeing how this intake is an improvement. HP seems on the low end for a 350, and torque is way down.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

norcalz28, sounds like your car may be a bit of a factory freak
i have heard with a 700 you get about an 18~20 percent power loss,
214 would be about a 13 percent loss if you have 245 at the flywheel. 18 percent would put you around 260 at the flywheel.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

I've known a few guys in my area that made similar power stock. We all baselined around the same time. My 89 and my friends 91 made almost identical numbers. His picked up 20 rwhp with the addition of hedman shorties, which I installed later. I don't think 210-215 rwhp is uncommon for a B2L motor.

Will

Jeffrey Fontaine

Hey, can't complain when you gain power at every RPM point (edit: just to clarify, I'm referring to the modification to the upper manifold shown in post 377 vs the original dyno post). Great job, and keep up the good work. I can't wait to see the testing on a modified car!!!

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

fuel does make a big difference, maybe the gas you Cali guys get isn't so bad for performance. when the gas changed here back around may of 06, i saw a pretty noticeable drop in both performance & fuel mileage. maybe Bryan will post up what gas they use for their runs.

the intake didn't up the maximum power output by much, but it does extend it. according to the first runs Bryan posted back on 6/20, they gave up about 12 HP at 3000, but gained almost 25 at 4500, not a bad trade off IMO. on the same run, maximum torque actually dropped by 16 pounds, but showed a big increase at 5000 RPM as did horse power. a gain of 50 in both torque & horse power at 5000 over the stock intake is a good gain.
this intake breathes much better than the stock intake does. i think on a modded motor, it will really shine.

Pennocks91ws6

so,, will this intake be ready for christmas,, i understand develuping takes a while.. but comon,, my buddy got a bbk intake on his 5.0 mustang and he keeps making fun of mine cuz i got the "funky looking header intake"

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Many people consider your "funky looking header intake" to be the best looking EFI intake ever made. And NO EFI intake on ANY mustang even remotely looks cool.

I think you're the first person in history to want to get rid of their TPI because of looks!!!!

Jeffrey Fontaine

At the risk of being called a "flip-flop", I feel that as long as they are continuing to be actively developing, modifying, and testing the intake, I don't mind waiting. Wouldn't you rather wait a month if you get an extra 10hp across the RPM band for no extra $$$?

My biggest gripe was the lack of pictures after the condition was satisfied for their release (dyno testing). Oh well, I'm sure its not Bryan's call to make ( we ALL have bosses). Now if the ball was dropped and they were no longer testing, or redesigning it, then I would be

TPI

I concur with that statement entirely!

The BEST looking intake to be mounted on a SBC is
Tuned port, I dont care who you are.. And I wouldnt
listen to one thing a Mustang owner has to say... It'll be biased!

But yea, MANY people disagree with your friend =)

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I agree with the sentiment. Its like a pissed off spider protecting the engine.
They just look cool!

Sorry for the leaves, It was spring when I was working on it.
http://student.dpg.devry.edu/~d00712...s/DCP_0426.jpg

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

you can't really listen to a FORD owner for advise,just look at what they drive.
do you like the intake?
does it perform for you?
was it worth the money you spent, to you?

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

Werd, I'd rock the "header intake" any day over ford's "bagpipes!"

Will

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

What if this intake ends up looking like the 5.0 "bagpipes"?? It would only take a redesign of the lower intake manifold and the maybe a change at the place where the throttle body bolts on to adapt our twin 48mm, but you could use a Mustang style upper intake with a dedicated SBC lower intake on our cars.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

If they did that, it wouldn't have taken x amount of years to develop! I really doubt they are going to halfass something like that. And I really doubt it's going to cost the 399.00 we've all been led to believe. A new set of runners costs almost that much. Time will tell I guess, but I think you guys are in for a big surprise!

Will