87tpi

iTrader: (5)

what would the difference be between a lightly modded l98 and an ls1,1/4 mile,0-60 etc?I'm trying to come up with a good combo for my build?I may go with a super or turbo charged l98.

Scott 88 GTA

As an owner of both, I can tell you that an LS1 is going to be faster than a modded L98. My heads/cam (but stock intake) L98 is slower than my stock LS1.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

if you are goin to run any kind of power adder setup besides nitrous it is overkill just to beat an LS1 and you better have a fat wallet to fund the project. i read in magazines where these jockeys get "stock" SS camaros with 6speeds to run 12.9. but here in the real world they run mid 13s, some as high as a low 14. its kinda like all the fabled stock L98 cars around here that supposedly run low 14s, well in the real world a stock L98 car is good for a high 14 at very best. (I say that because i have seen many L98 cars run at norwalk OH and at milan MI, and the fastest stock L98 car i have seen ran a 14.7, and even it had runners and base.) anyway if you can shuffle down the quarter to a high 12, most LS1s wont be a problem on the street. As you can read here if you do a search, it is easy to get an L98 in to the 12s. Lots of guys here have good heads, cam, runners, base, and exhaust and are solid in the 12s, ask them how much trouble they have with LS1 cars. Again its been covered here hundreds of times, so do a search and you will find all the info you need to make your L98 car run.

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

think before you talk....i have an all stock L98 in my 89 iroc i run 14.4 all day long and touch 14.2 every so often.....ihavent even done the freemods .....all about driver...

SweetS10v8

Ditto, 14.4s all day. Hit 14.25@ 95 2.0 60fts, ONLY mod is SFCs with 145k on the clock too at E-town NJ

omcrider

A mild L98 will still lose to a LS1 in the 1/4. 0-60 might be alot closer. But to me mild is a fresh rebuild with some intake, exhaust mods maybe some 1.6 rockers. Start changing heads that are matched to a cam and then complete intake and exhaust and your right there or in front of a stock LS1. Supercharger will get you there faster but very costly. Nitrous will get you there the quickest and cheapest way.

You want to kill em all day long in the stoplight to stoplight race build a 383. We already have a torque launch advantage, a 383 will just make it more obvious.

nick418

if you are goin to run any kind of power adder setup besides nitrous it is overkill just to beat an LS1 and you better have a fat wallet to fund the project. i read in magazines where these jockeys get "stock" SS camaros with 6speeds to run 12.9. but here in the real world they run mid 13s, some as high as a low 14. its kinda like all the fabled stock L98 cars around here that supposedly run low 14s, well in the real world a stock L98 car is good for a high 14 at very best. (I say that because i have seen many L98 cars run at norwalk OH and at milan MI, and the fastest stock L98 car i have seen ran a 14.7, and even it had runners and base.) anyway if you can shuffle down the quarter to a high 12, most LS1s wont be a problem on the street. As you can read here if you do a search, it is easy to get an L98 in to the 12s. Lots of guys here have good heads, cam, runners, base, and exhaust and are solid in the 12s, ask them how much trouble they have with LS1 cars. Again its been covered here hundreds of times, so do a search and you will find all the info you need to make your L98 car run.



Man i wish i grabbed the slip from my orginal owner, my Stock L98 (besides exhaust) Ran low 14s all day long. Think b4 you type

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

Man i wish i grabbed the slip from my orginal owner, my Stock L98 (besides exhaust) Ran low 14s all day long. Think b4 you type [/B][/QUOTE]

if you had a nice new exhaust it wasn't stock now was it?

nick418

just a new muffle and the tips, And also if you add a Vortech supercharger onto a good running L98, that would give you 100hp and 85Lbs of torque, So a stock l98 is 245hp so that will be 345hp, and a stock L98 tq is 345pounds, so the s/c would make it 430 pounds of tq, so a s/c 345 hp 430pound tq l98 could hang with the Ls1, rite?

rx7speed

if you had a nice new exhaust it wasn't stock now was it? [/B][/QUOTE]

wow he pointed that out by saying stock OTHER THEN the exhuast


thank you for pointing it out once again just to make sure that he knew that an exhuast wasn't stock

nick418

Com on now exhaust is just 15-20hp... I betcha if i threw the org exhaust on there, My org owner still could run mid 14s, which he was a very good driver, too bad he cant drive no more, due to paralyzed for life

nick418

And wat does your 1.3 Rotary run in a 1/4 ? (STOCK) I admit i never raced on the tracks, i prob couldnt put good #s up is i was driving an Ls1

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

wow he pointed that out by saying stock OTHER THEN the exhuast


thank you for pointing it out once again just to make sure that he knew that an exhuast wasn't stock [/B][/QUOTE]


if it had an upgraded exhaust then it's not stock genius.. he called his car stock then said oh it has an exhaust... therefore IT IS NOT STOCK...

nick418

not gonna argue... In way i agree wit ya.. But a stock L98 in 1990 ran 14.4.... STOCK as u would say...

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

i'm not disagreeing that a stock L98 can't run 14's because I know it can. It just kinda bothers me when people say "oh i ran this 13.9 with my stock L98 camaro/firebird". Then they come out and say how they have done free mods, new exhaust etc etc but they still try to consider it stock. Or you get these other guys that do all kinds of suspension mods to get loads of traction and call their cars stock because they did no engine mods. To me stock is how it comes straight from the factory.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Well I'm thinking about afr heads,cam,super ram and A supercharger.I was going to spend 3000 - 3500 on the engine but I think my car looks good enough so I might spend the full 7000 on the engine.

rx7speed

if it had an upgraded exhaust then it's not stock genius.. he called his car stock then said oh it has an exhaust... therefore IT IS NOT STOCK... [/B][/QUOTE]

now yes he said the word stock
but he specified that the exhuast is not stock also

to me it sounds like he is saying everything on his car is stock OTHER THEN the exhuast

he never said the car was all stock

he said stock EXCEPT for the exhuast
so argue this
is he lying?
if he has an exhuast does that mean his statement
does that mean the rest of the car is not stock?

he specified the exhuast wasn't
and in the same line was saying that the rest was
so is he lying ?

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

sounds like you're gonna build one beast of an engine. You're not gonna try to put that power through a stock tranny and rear are you?

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

he said his car was stock except for the exhaust... i can read. is his car stock? NO. I simply said that his car IS NOT STOCK because it does not have the STOCK EXHAUST. I guess with your definition of stock I could say I have a stock L98 (except for a supercharger I bolted on). So according to you just because I put it in () that means it's okay. My car would still be stock according to you. As I already posted, my definition of stock is how the car comes from the factory.

nick418

What im trying to tell you ppl is that everything (the engine, Interior,exterior) is all stock besides the muffler and tailpipes! I havent even lifter the hood up more then 4 times since 2001 when i bought the damn thing. The valve Cover have never been taken off. The CATS, the rotars, the tires are bone stock from the factory... Everythin is stock besides the muffler and tailpipes... Even most of the fluids in the car is original.. I admit for awhile i had and airfoil and K&ns, but i took em off.. Even the fuggin wiperblades are stock from the factory if you want to count those... The only think that isnt org is the Battery and the Muffler and tailpipes... Everything else is stock.

nick418

I didnt mean it by saying its 100 percent stock

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

i know what you're trying to say man. I just don't consider a car with an upgraded exhaust system with exhaust tips stock. If you want to consider it that then fine, that's your choice. But i'm not going to consider your car stock. Sure it's 99% stock but as I already said about 5 times, I don't consider it stock unless it has all the factory parts. Now if you had said it was all stock except for the brake rotors and pads and such I could understand that. But adding an exhaust system that adds 15-20 hp doesn't make it stock anymore in my book.

nick418

Okay thats what you think, thats cool man, im not having any issues wit you, I know its not 100 percent stock, but the majority of it is...

rx7speed

hey if you said your car is stock except f or the supercharger to m that woudl be ok

cause that would tell me your car has no other mods other then the supercharger

so by saying that I know the car is not fully stock and I wouldn't throw a fit about you saying it is stock because all the stock part covers is the REST OF THE CAR OTHER THEN the supercharger



what is the difference between saying
my car is stock besides the exhuast vs my only mods include an exhuast


both are saying you have an exhuast
both are saying that the rest of the car is stock
niether are saying the car is fully stock
niether are saying he has no mods
niether say he never touched the car


it says right there he has a mod :-)

89Warbird

Well, when my car was stock I picked up 2/10's when I added a bunch of stickers to the back window, must have been better weight transfer!

Now, my car should be a solid low 14 runner.

To the original question, LS1's are tough, if you can hook up better that's half the battle since most street races aren't 1.4 mile and traction is everything. If it's on the strip, you need to free up the breathing so it will pull above 4500 rpm and hook up.

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

So you're telling me I can add a supercharger to my car and call it stock just because I put (except for a supercharger) in my post. I can go and add 100 hp to my car and it's still stock? Not hardly.

Yes it does say he has a mod, therefore the car isn't stock.

"my car is stock besides the exhaust vs my only mods include an exhaust" is the same thing. Either way the car still isn't stock, either way the car still had a mod done to it to make it go faster. Either way you want to put it the car didn't come from the factory that way so it's not a stock car. Just because he stated in his post that he upgraded the exhaust doesn't mean he can still say he has a stock car because it's not stock. If you and him both want to say his car is stock then go ahead. But with an upgraded exhaust it's not stock in my book or most other people.

DON 88T/A

Point is the car runs mid low 14's....tips/muffler won't do much at all...
Nick418...is your ignition all stock from factory (I mean never even replaced the plugs or anything..?)

Thats a good running car.. sweetS10v8/porkyzilla too...englishtown is a very/very good track...records are set there often...just proves with a good track/driver and conditions,an L98 can run well.

SweetS10v8

So im not in trouble for not being "Stock" because I have subframe connectors??

What did I start with 240hp?? lol

I havent ran it since I did a TB bypass and a TPIS airfoil. So lets see, according to ebay(tb bypass, that I did for $.17 at Lowes) I should have gained 10hp. Then add on like 11 or 12hp from the airfoil, man thats 22hp!!!! I need to get back to the track.....

I cant wait for my 20 hp K&N, and my 15HP flowmaster

nick418

Nick418...is your ignition all stock from factory (I mean never even replaced the plugs or anything..?)


yep Don the ignition is all stock, like i said even the wiperblades and the tire are origianal. It only has 14k orginal miles and the org owner threw it on the track back in the mid 90s.. He should me the slip, dammit i wish i had it with me, plus the slip is kind a like a collectible with the car.. im a moron. But you guys are just getting boring, The car is not 100percent stock, Just the exhaust, The engine, interior and the exterior and the suspension is all stock. Which makes it in my book , close to be stock.. Now Don is right, i dont think by addin a muffler and tips is gonna really do much besides adding some ponies, You wont feel a difference, If you add a S/C , yes you will feel the difference

DON 88T/A

And with the whole L98/LS1 comparo...its not really even fair.
I mean the LS1 is a practically a racecar from the factory...great flowing aluminum heads/solid cam/even has factory headers...
You put a long runner intake on the LS1 it will fall on its face too at around 5000 grand or so..Put a short runner intake on the L98 they both have the same potential...Granted the LS1 has 14 degree heads that flow very well stock/amazing ported...but there are so many solid aftermarket 23 degree heads for the L98 that they both can be built to run very well....

You really need to have a deeper wallet than the LT1 or LS1 guy to compete in a Thirdgen because you start with less...but its offset because you can get a decent 3rd gen for 3-5 grand these days.

nick418

And Rx7 you didnt answer my Question, WHat does ur 1.3 ROTARY run in a 1/4? stock

DON 88T/A

Oh I'm not getting caught up in the whole whats stock argument here...just thought you had a great running car..and if you threw new plugs/wires on it I would still consider it stock..I'm just saying an L98 for what it is/when it was built is actually a fairly impressive setup giving all of its restrictions.

Wow..only 14k on the clock...don't see that anymore.

rx7speed

I never ran mine stock

but my understanding for the 86-88 a mid to low 16 is about avg
myself ran a 16.4 but did have some problems
generally missed the shift into third (stupd driver error) and had some hesitation off the line due to afm not hooked up right

and never drove at track so 5500rpm clutch dumps good for a 2.3 60' time

but should be a little better now

as far as the 89-91 understand some of them have been able to hit low 16's to a high 15

nothing special though

then the turbos are around mid 15's to a high 14

rx7speed

ok I know this is a hard idea to understand

but he never said the car was bone stock
never did he say the car was fully stock
never did he say he had no mods

let me put it this way

my car is stock (besides the exhuast)
means
everything on my car is stock other then the exhuast


there by saying his car isn't all stock



so once again

he never said his car is all stock
he was saying the rest of the car other then the exhuast is stock


can you deny that?

rx7speed

hey guys I'm bored and at work

only thing I have to do is sit here and give customer service and bicker

nick418

Mikos_89

Well... I think you can safely say that most (stock) LS1's run low to mid 13's in the 1/4 while most (stock) L98's run mid to high 14's. So, you're looking at about a full second which translates to almost 100 more RWHP for the LS1. You get around low to mid 5-second 0-60 times for the most stock LS1's and low to mid 6's for most stock L98's.

On the other hand, a good high stall TQ converter put behind a (good running) L98 could chop almost 1-full second off it's 0-60 times. With a good high stall TQ convertor, the L98 could be just as fast or maybe a little faster to 60mph than an LS1.

Maybe if GM actually developed a bigger TPI intake for the 350cid SBC instead of using the 305cid based version, the L98 would've been a much better performer than it was. Of course, this was the same GM mentality that was putting 2-bbl carburators on 400 cid SBC's back in the mid '70's. Talk about choking up an engine.

nick418

Yep, Seems like GM forgets to do everything

Jekyll & Hyde

To clear the stock vs not problem:
The engine is only going to get back the hp that it lost since it came from the line. Age will lose some power, and a muffler and some tips wont add enough to make a difference, that and there is only one person that cares.


As for the L98 vs LS1:
The main problem is the powerband, you will need to make more power that the LS1 can up high, this will only happen with a different inake system, or one hell of a power adder.

The LS1 makes 300ft/lbs across the board from 2500-5500.

The stock (yes I said it) L98 makes 320ft/lbs but drops below the LS1 point at 4800. This means that the rest of the pull, you get spanked.

In short terms make 305+ torque in the same band, and you will win.

The problem is that the LS1 cars are high end while the L98 is all low. Hard to compare. Good luck.

HoustonL98

You guys argue about the dumbest crap.

omcrider

Your not kidding this should have been an interesting informative post, but instead I read through ten minutes of the silliest arguments.

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

well then there you have it, I must have a stock 12 second GTA. It's a stock red GTA (except for fully ported and polished heads, cam, hsr, 3.70 posi, headers, exhaust, 24# injectors, k&n air filter, and a few other things). A 12 second stock GTA... I should be proud to own it. :lala:

nick418

well then there you have it, I must have a stock 12 second GTA. It's a stock red GTA (except for fully ported and polished heads, cam, hsr, 3.70 posi, headers, exhaust, 24# injectors, k&n air filter, and a few other things). A 12


Atleast i have more stock in my car



hehehe what i meant was I modified The Exhaust, and everything else ( bolts, screws w/e) in the car is stock

nick418

muffler and some tips wont add enough to make a difference, that and there is only one person that cares.


Thats what im saying, its not gonna make a difference at all......

And for the Stock vs Not issue, Im not gonna argue anymore, i never once argued on TGO

ghettosmurf

HOLY ****......did the guy NOT ask the differences and what it would take basically to beat an LS1...or was he saying hey guys...Can you "define" stock for me and then precede to argue about it...***. So basically if you have say a mid 14 sec. L98. it wont take TOO much work to beat the ls1. Especially if you are saying you have 3500 to put in..I would say do suspension, torque converter, gears, pulleys, cam/heads, and HSR. You are def. good to go!!!

nick418

I would say do suspension, torque converter, gears, pulleys, cam/heads, and HSR. You are def. good to go!!!

i deff think your rite, I dont think it takes much for a L98 to hang with the Ls1 0-30 or 0-60, But Those things you listed can stick with an lS1 , I dont think ull rape it but you can deff be near him and esp if your a good driver

CashMunson

iTrader: (1)

alright man i won't argue anymore on this. All i'm gonna say is that you originally said you put an exhaust on it. You never said it was just a muffler and tips when you first posted it. You could have put a 3 inch catback exhaust on there and to me that would make a difference. A free flowing exhaust is one of the bigger upgrades you can do to a car.

and for the guy that said he is just gaining power back that he lost since his car is old, his car only has 14k miles on it. how much power could it have lost? it's not like he has 100k-150k on it. most cars from 2002 have more miles then his car.


you should take it to the track and see what it will do since you've never ran it yourself.


SweetS10v8 where do you race? Quaker? I'm in NE ohio myself.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

well heres the scoop, all you guys with stock L98s that can go better than 14.6 need to come on over here and show me. i am not saying it cant be done, i am saying i have never seen it. i can usually add about .5 sec to what everyone says around here and thats what people actually run at the track. i am jsut very skeptical of all these claimed ETs when i have never seen one come close myself. in the past few years or so I have known lots of guys with beautiful well maintained L98 cars, no junk, and the fastest one of the bunch was a GTA, it would have went about 14.8. thats not bad considering the fastest 305 car that i have actually seen besides mine went 15.1 with cam and exhaust.

LS1s are not unbeatable, i answered this guys question in the 2nd post yesterday, now i come back here and all this garbage is here. 87tpi, the answer to answer your question was stated above. it is obvious from this thread that there are lots of guys out there with modded 350s, follow what worked for them and you will be good to go. there are about a million ways to build a 350 so pick which way you want to go and start modding and good luck wiht the LS1 boys!

nick418

well heres the scoop, all you guys with stock L98s that can go better than 14.6 need to come on over here and show me. i am not saying it cant be done, i am saying i have never seen it.

Then you havent seen many stock L98s then A 1990 Iroc Z l98 runs 14.4 Stock, which is .2 better then 14.6

REDZ28

I bought my 91 z28 350 car in 1991 and bone stock it went 14.24!!