87camaro kid

i just got a built 350 that has heads cam and a few other mods if i just use a computer from a 350 tpi and i dont get a burnt chip how will the car run?

speed88

It depends on how big the cam is. The stock computer can manage to a certain point. Is your car a MAF car?? The MAF cars are better at compensating for change than the SD cars are.

87camaro kid

i have no idea how do i figure that out?

antoine

I am running a comp cam 510/510 lift with 220/230 dur with 114 lsa and i have a stock 350 chip runs good

speed88

Do you have a Mass Airflow sensor (maf) on your intake??

87camaro kid

well this engine is coming off my friends car its a 91 camaro 350 and no it doesnt have the maf the engine is actuially in his 89 chevy S10

wako29

okay, its a SD system. Will it run? Yes, but not well at all. Depends how extreme the cam and heads are, but you could pick up 15hp and loads of driveability and fuel mileage and everything else by getting a burnt chip. Better yet, start burning your own.

Red Devil

Wha?? Is the swap into a thirdgen, or into the truck? What induction system are you trying to pair up to the tpi ecu and which ecu are you using? Did you drop a 350 into an '89 s10?

87camaro kid

ok my friend about a year ago bought a 1991 camaro 350 tpi engine and rebuilt it with a cam and heads and porting and headers he put that engine into his s10...now a year later im taking this engine out and puting new pistions and head gasket on and puting it into my 1987 camaro z28 that origonaly camr with a 305 tpi engin

Red Devil

Ok, now, when he got the engine, did it come with the ecu and wiring harness or was it just the longblock?

Now the $64,000 question: When it goes into your car, what harness and computer are you planing on using?

edit:my spelling sucks.

BadSS

Ok,,, I’d suggest using the MAF sensor and the wiring harness and computer you have. If the 91 has the stock runners, you’ll want to swap them with the stock runners from your 87 so you can keep the cold start injector. Use the fuel injectors from the 350 and go to the GM dealer to get one of the following chips that matches your gear ratio.

1988 – 350 TPI – Automatic – 2.77 gears – GM#16075399 / 5400ABYA
1988 – 350 TPI – Automatic – 3.23 gears – GM#16083268 / 3269AKXX

The stock chip along with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on a long tube runner intake system using a MAF sensor will get you running decent enough until you can get into burning your own chips.

If the 91 has aftermarket runners with no cold start provision (it's possible they might have a provision for a C/S injector plugged),,, I'd still keep the MAF system and see if you can find someone willing enough to burn a 89 chip for you with the VATS disabled.

Edit- if you can get the SD computer and harness,,, hang on to them, because depending on how serious you get and if you get into chip burning,,, you'll more than likely want to swap over to the SD system eventually.

87camaro kid

id do that but then id be losing power from the 350 cause the 350 has ported runers and plenum so i wouldnt wanna lose that...i think im just ganna use the wiring harnes i have now and i already can get my hands on a 91 350 computer chip and i will have tpis burn me a chip even though its almost 600 dollors for the chip i would need unless u no of a better cheaper place that can burn chips?

Red Devil

Wha?? Dude, you have got to slow down a bit. Why don't you want to use your current harness? You would just need a chip change, and if it's only a runner change you are not going to see any increases. I'd stick with what you got and just change the chip.

87camaro kid

yeah im going to use the harness in my car now but i need a new computer obveously cause im going from an 87 305 to a 91 350 and ill need to have a chip burnt because of all the mods on the engine right? or it wont run as good

i plane on using the wiring harness curently in my car used on the 305 and use it on the 350 but im going to buy a computer from a 91 350 which i already have

the engine in my car now-
1987 305 tpi with headers

the engine i bought for my car-
350 tpi with headers, eldebrok heads, cam, ported plenum and runers, MSD ignition, lifters and few other things i cant remeber


this is y i need a diffrent computer and chip for the car but i can use the same harness right and is it absolutly nesecary to have a burnt chip for it to run right?

Red Devil

Ok, lets see if we can square away some things here. Long blocks are notoriously absent minded. Once you strip it down, it doesn't remember the wrapper. What you should say, is 'I have a 350 roller long block'.

You can't use a '91 computer on your '87 harness. Keep the computer you have and buy the correct chip as mentioned above.

I have done this to a stock chip ECU in an '89 (my old car):

Headers, full 3" exhaust, big mouth base, AS&M LTRs, ported plenum, 52 mm TB. No change in chip. Not enough variance to call for a new chip, the stock one handled it fine, car ran rather well.

With the edel heads, you may need to eventually step up to a custom prom, but to install etc. you should be fine. It will really depend on the cam installed. If you do need a custom prom, you want to learn to do it yourself. Follow so far? Did I miss anything? Feels like it.

Red Devil

Y'know, of that has a stock base on it, the stock chip will be fine unless you have an unmatched cam in there. The base doesn't flow for sh*t so the stock ecu should be able to handle it.

87camaro kid

sry im still a little confused...i can use the computer i have in my 87 z28 even though its for a 305 and still use it on this 350? there both tpi engines

Jekyll & Hyde

The chip is the only thing different about the computers for 85-89 TPI engines. You can use the 305 computer because it doesn't know anything. The chip has all of the info on there. Injectors, fuel, gears, tranny, etc., etc.

Here is what you should do.

Keep:
87 Harness
87 Computer
87 Sensors (except the knock sensor)
91 knock sensor
91 engine with everything else not listed above.

Aquire:
A 350 chip matching the rear-end and the transmisson. This will be easy to do if you have someone local to burn the binary file to the chip.

To Do:
Once you have chip, remove the one in your 87 computer and place new chip in it's place.


Does this help any?

87camaro kid

yeah thanx alot...just one more qustion...this 350 didnt use the maf sensor but when i put it in my car i should use the maf thats in my car?

Red Devil

Yes.
Just pretend you are reinstalling your 305. Use everything that was connected to that prior to pulling.

87camaro kid

alright thanx alot guys that helped me out alot ill let u guys now how it goes after its all in

BadSS

Yep,,, that's pretty much all there is to it. However,,, not meaning to confuse the issue,,, but the MAF systems / chips needs a "maf" knock sensor (1987 - 1989 for 350s). The S/D knock sensors have a different resistance. You probably could get away with using the 1987's 305 knock sensor and wrapping the threads heavily with teflon tape and installing the sensor with no more pressure than it required not to leak - that's what I did to prevent buying a "350" sensor when I installed my 355 in my 86 IROC. Seems to be working OK without any false-knock.

What runners are on the 350? It's not 100% clear if they're Edelbrock or stock runners. If they’re the stock runners you can’t really port them – you can gasket match them to a small degree (some call this porting),,, but you would loose next to NOTHING swapping them for your stock 1987 runners – or you could do a little gasket matching on your own 87 runners with a drum roll ($10 at the hardware store) and electric drill . Doing this would allow you to swap to a 1988 chip as I posted above (for around $50) and have the car running for under $60.

If they’re after market runners and there is no provision for the cold start injector on the side of the runners, still use your harness and computer and get someone to burn you a basically stock 1989 chip with the VATS (vehicle anti-theft system) disabled. I’m sure there are guys on this board that can point you to someone,,, or a company that will burn a basic 1989 chip (so you can run your MAF sensor and existing harness) with the VATS disabled - probably for under $150. If not for the VATS,, you could just swap the 87 305 chip for a 89 350 chip and let her fly.

Jekyll & Hyde

Dang, thanks BadSS, forgot a couple things.

Captain C

I have an 89 computer with an adapter that I ran on my 85. I used an 89 No-Vats chip. The only problem I have run into is that the wiring on the A/C is evidently different on the 86-89 than the 85. Something about a switch being normally open on one and normally closed on the other. I went through so many compressors that I just switched back to the 85 computer. Once I find out "exactly" which switch/sensor is involved I will change it out or make a TEE connection so I have both available. (anyone got the answer?) Thanks to this site I also have wiring diagrams so I can double check that the person who built the adapter harness originally did it correctly.

I get better gas mileage with the 89 and it runs more like a stocker. I have a custom $600 dollar chip from TPIS for the 89 computer, I need to get it checked out to see if it has the same problem as the stock 89 chip.... Fuel Injection Specialties or TPIS can burn you a No-Vats chip, but you could probably just buy a stock one for $75 at the local Chevy dealer.

My TPIS chip has way more power than the stock 89 chip but you need to know the specifics on your engine for them to get it close.

Red Devil

No answer, but my '89 is in peices right now, I can take some pics if you want. IIRC there is a resistor or some suck wired into the plug in the front of the compressor.

87camaro kid

would puting my 305 tpi setup on the 350 help the swap go easer? cause i dont think the runners are ported on the 350 i just riped the whole motor apart today

Red Devil

You can't really port runners. What exactly is the problem? Yes you can use it, the TPI unit is the bloody same!!! (sorry, related to another thread), just change the injectors. Again, what exactly is the problem, we can help you a lot better if we can understand the problem.

BadSS

Since the 1991 350 runners are stock,,, the easiest thing to do would be use your 87 305 intake, runners, plenum, and throttle body, your 305 wiring harness, computer, MAF sensor,,,,, everything EXCEPT the 305 knock sensor, 305 injectors, and the 305 chip.

You’ll want to swap the 305 injectors for the 350 injectors from the 91 set up, get a knock sensor for a 1988 350 TPI car (less chance of error than wrapping the 305’s with Teflon tape), and one of the 1988 chips below that matches your gear ratio (from the GM dealer),, it’s just remove and replace,,,, super simple.

1988 – 350 TPI – Automatic – 2.77 gears – GM#16075399 / 5400ABYA
1988 – 350 TPI – Automatic – 3.23 gears – GM#16083268 / 3269AKXX.

(I know your computer is an 87 model, but the 88 chip has one more year of revisions and updates than the 87).

I hesitate to confuse the issue, but if the base intake from the 91 350 is ported, you can use the base intake from the 91 and bolt your 87 runners (with the cold start injector provision), plenum, and throttle body to it. You’ll want to run the 87 plenum since it has an additional idle air passage for the cold start injector that the 91 plenum does not have. If the 91’s throttle body is in better shape than the 87,,,,, I’m pretty sure you can run the 91 throttle body on the 87 plenum without modifications. However,,, if you use the 91 T/B, swap the 87’s throttle position sensor,,, since it’s slotted and will allow for sensor adjustment.

Here are a couple links that might help give you an idea of the differences between the TPI systems,, and might prove helpful with the swap.

http://www.classictrucksweb.com/tech/0402cl_tpi/

http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel%20i...%20pg%20AA.htm

I’d suggest porting the 305’s (1987) plenum (easy to do) and for you to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you don’t already have one. I’d consider both mandatory if you want this thing to run decent under full throttle. The Holley TPI regulator is very nice,,, WELL worth the money difference between the rest.

87camaro kid

well instead of buying the ship from gm i was ganna have tpis burn me a chip would that be ok?

BadSS

I'm not a fan of aftermarket chips. You can buy the burning equipment to do it yourself for the cost involved. I ran the stock 88 chip and ran almost 110mph with it on a mild 355 TPI - full weight car in near 90 heat. There's just as good a chance,, in my opinion a better chance, that the GM chip would run just as good as the aftermarket on the MAF car as long as you get an AFPR to trim full throttle enrichment.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

TPIS is a ripoff.

Personally, I'd go with the '91 harness and ECM, and get into prom tuning. A S/D setup is a lot easier to tune than MAF, plus you dont have the worries of the MAF sensor.

You can also repin your '87 harness to work with SD, if you dont wanna snake the new harness in.

I suggest you do some reading in diy-prom.


-- Joe

87camaro kid

there is no way id beable to burn my own chip are there any other places other than tpis?

87camaro kid

i can get an 88 350 tpi chip and use my 87 harness with the maf and it would run? id just have to get vats removed? and another option what about dfi? is that any good?

Red Devil

Yes, you can. (88 chip for the 87)

Yes, you could. (burn your own chip)

VATS was '89-up. (self-explanatory)

Red Devil

Oh, and if you are convinced that you can't burn your own chip, you really don't want to touch DFI.