FIREBIRD7777

Hey, guys im about buy a set of heads for my 383 l98 block . My guestion is realisticaly how much better are ARF over the 23 degree trick flows.As far as horsepower numbers.\

383, lt1 intake. lt4 hot cam.. and 1.6 rockers with slp headers

roughly 400 horsepwer with trick flows _____?
and with the ARF_____?

The trickflows with cnc and dual springs can handle up to 600 lift my cam with 1.6 will be around 525 lift, but thats a mild cam in a 383 so later on if i wanna swap for a bigger cam i want that option .

so trick flows with cnc and dual springs run about $1400
AFR would be around what ? $1800 guessing ?

Allso im not real familiar with rockers, if i get the self align rockers does that mean basically i can just install them and not have to adjust anything, they should adjust themselfs?

dj haf

what do you think your rpm range is going to be?

FIREBIRD7777

Im not real sure, no higher then 6500 rpm im sure. I not real big on top end motors. I just want the most torque in the bottom end motor i can get. I think whats what you were asking right ?

dj haf

ok.... here's why i ask. there are lots of heads that have different rpm ranges. if you don't plan on revving past 6500 rpms, then get one in that range. ill get you slow flow info right now... give me a sec.

btw, is your car auto or stick shift? cuz you'd really want to get a TC that'll compliment your heads, cam, and intake... 2500+ rpm stall maybe for the lt1 intake?

dj haf

AFR 195's are good from 2000 to 6500 rpms.
Flow Data:

dj haf

Trick Flow Kenny Duttweiler 23 Degree Heads Flow Data:

FIREBIRD7777

well my car right now is a auto , but im swicthing over to a t-56 once i find one

I deffiantly going with any other intake other then stock or siamese runner types, i know they are built for torque but thats torque i can give up. The install and ease of the other intakes are just far better. And i do want some mid range power to

I know when i take my lt1 camaro out on the highway at around 70 mph she will wake right up and move out

but with my old tpi setup would take a bit of time.Granted there is hp diffrences but still the lt1 type of intakes are so much better then factory intake setup , so i know i know for sure im going with , lt1 intake , or holly street ram,

like i said cam right now im stuck with the lt4 hot cam its new and installed and it was like 250 bucks. so maybe later on i will swap it out once i get everything running right.

allso depending on how much horses i get from this motor , later on i might add a ati force induction to it. I should have went with a 406 build up but i wanted to keep the orginal l98 block , which was stupid lol , 406 are cheaper to build then stroker motors. All while keeping this a street driving weekend /fun car . And pray that the county i live in doesnt get emissons.

MYBLUZ

To awnser you question on cost, they are $1275, plus 50 bucks for shipping. That shipping to Oregon, may very, depending on were you are at. I should be ordering mine in two weeks.

Kevin G

dj haf, that graph shows a set of fully ported 195cc AFR heads correct? Not an out of the box set.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

Please explain. What is this rpm range based on?

FIREBIRD7777

Cool thanks for the help guys. I think for the money im going to go with trickflows. Then later on force induction. 500 horses for a street car is plenty enough for me.

The afr look like cnc trickflows compared to regular non cnc trickflow heads. But is it worth 600 + dollars when im looking at force induction anyhow later down the road probally not to me. At least thats what im thinking , am i right or wrong ?

dj haf

the AFR's flow better than the trickflows, which would give you more power... when you start running out of mods to do, you'll regret not paying the extra money for better heads that would give you more power. get yourself a big cam with a 2000-6500 rpm range, and you'll be making a lot of power. more power than you would with the same cam and trickflows...

smithtc, the rpm range is set on the specs of the heads. the larger the cc, the higher the rpm range is. go to www.airflowresearch.com and check it out...

EDIT: look here mate https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&threadid=1896

SweetS10v8

those are AFR competition port heads $1900!!!

I would still go with the afr heads! I had em and loved em. Here is a link to about the cheapest place to get em, and free shipping to boot!

http://www.jdsperformance.com/index....nmake=all&pg=1

antoine

my trickflows work ok for me for the price trickflows can`t be beat also with the money left over from not buying afrs you can buy somthing else maybe nos and the test numbers should be from third party not afrs because they would like you to by there heads what makes afr flow is because they are ported if trickflows was ported i would like to see the test.

RedIrocZ-28

Holy CRAP! Where are you guys looking to find your prices on heads?

I bought a set of 195 AFR's about 2 weeks ago, they should be machined shortly and sent out to me within about 3 weeks. Granted I didn't get the CNC ported ones but still... I got the regular 195cc AFR's for... lets call it ~$700 less than the quoted price for the cnc ported ones someone posted about 2 replies up from mine.

FIREBIRD7777

Well I read the other post, so it looks like a toss up VS. the two heads

How much will cnc AFR cost me ?
383 motor here?

Trick flows with cnc and dual springs are about $1400

SweetS10v8

AFR 195s CNC'd are $1250 shipped in that link I posted earlier.

I was thinking that trickflows were like $900. If you pick trick flows over AFRs(especially since AFRs are cheaper) everyone here will repeatedly!!! I might go as far as to find your address and do it in person, LOL

AFRs are the cats @$$... the Rolls Royce, if you will, of "affordable 23* heads"

FIREBIRD7777

haha ok ok ok if afr are really that cheap 1250s then i will deffiantly check them out . I did read that other post and they said its like a 7 week wait I dont want to loose my motavation i got going now to finish my car 2 + year process here

I was just thinking afr were 1800+ which if that were true would have been just to much for me . Since i will be adding a supercharger later down the road anyhow.

Thanks all for the help and replys. I dont have much exp with motor internals , its good to have people I can go to for guestons. Its not just a post to some people , we really are asking for help

FIREBIRD7777

ok a copy and paste from there site. So which would work best for me the 68cc or 74cc ... my cam is only .525 lift with 1.6 rockers lt4 hot cam . I notice that these heads will only take up to .550 lift that doesnt give me alot of room to play with a bigger cam in my 383 which i will replace in the furture since the cam in now is mild. The 210cc heads are not emissons legal so looks like i have to go with the 195s . Allso what is there competition package , what do they mean by that, cnc ?

they sell a push rod girdle and spring high rev kit but its extra money.







-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
195cc SBC Street Head Part Numbers
CNC Ported Pairs of Cylinder Heads Complete With Parts and Ready to Install


CNC Street Ported Heads
195cc Street Heads, Straight Plug w/heat riser, 74cc 1036*
195cc Street Heads, Straight Plug w/heat riser, 68cc 1034*
195cc Street Heads, L98 Angle Plug w/heat riser, 74cc 1038*
195cc Street Heads, L98 Angle Plug w/heat riser, 68cc 1040*
Competition Package CNC Ported Heads
Description Part Number
195cc Street Heads, Straight Plug w/heat riser, 74cc 1091*
195cc Street Heads, L98 Angle Plug w/heat riser, 74cc 1094*

Stage 1 Bare Heads (no parts or porting) are available.
*Only models with heat riser (marked by an asterisk)
are emissions legal, all others are not legal for sale or use on
pollution controlled motor vehicles in the United States.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basic Package Components
100% CNC Ported Combustion Chambers
100% CNC Ported Exhaust Ports
70% to 100% CNC Ported Intake Ports
3-angle Valve Job
Intake Valve, 2.020" standard length, AFR #7204
Exhaust Valve, 1.600" standard length, AFR #7219
1.450" OD Hydraulic Dual Valve Spring, 120 lbs. on seat, .550" maximum lift, AFR #8020
10º 4140 Chrome Moly Retainers, AFR #8510
10º Valve Locks, AFR #9005
3/8" Rocker Studs, AFR #6410
Guide Plates, AFR #6105
Valve Seals, AFR #6611
Hardened Shims, AFR #8043
Intake Valve Seats, AFR #9060
Exhaust Valve Seats, AFR #9070
Bronze Valve Guides, AFR #9050
Special orders available upon request.

All Accessory Holes are Predrilled & Tapped!

Specifications, Features, and Supporting Components
Head Torque 65-70 Ft. Lbs.
Rocker Stud Torque 55-60 Ft. Lbs.
Intake Port Gasket, 1.280”x2.090” w/ 3/8" radius, AFR #6810
Important: Do not port match your intake manifold to this Fel-Pro gasket, as they do not exactly fit AFR heads.
Exhaust Port Gasket Fel Pro #1404, AFR #6834
Head Gasket 350cid Fel Pro #1003, AFR #6800
400cid Fel Pro #1014, AFR #6802
Head Bolts & Studs Standard ARP, AFR #6310 & #6305
Head Bolt Washers Manley, AFR #6320
Stud Girdle AFR #6201
Suggested Manifold Edelbrock RPM Performer, AFR #5030
Spark Plug Starting Range AC FR3LS
Combustion Chambers 74cc or 68cc
Spring Pocket can be cut to 1.625, no deeper.
Valve Spacing Standard
Rocker Arms Standard
Valve Angle 23º
Angle Mill .008” per cc
Flat Mill .006” per cc
Pushrods 5/16” Hardened AFR #6600 & #6601


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SweetS10v8

Depends on what pistons you have, to get the desired compression ratio. Do you have dished, flat tops, or domed?

That is with the springs they send with the heads, you can run any lift with the corect springs. Anytime(when you upgrade) to a new cam, it is always smart to buy the matching springs. This will ensure proper seat pressures or your cam.

You dont want bare heads, Most people get the CNC Street ported heads, which means 70% Intake CNC porting and 100% CNC Ported Combustion Chambers with 100% CNC Ported Exhaust Ports.

The competiton port($1800-1900) The only change is 100% intake CNC porting rather than 70%. You still get 100% CNC Ported Combustion Chambers with 100% CNC Ported Exhaust Ports. They have to change some of the exhaust a bit, because it also flows more.

FIREBIRD7777

eeck, umm i know i dont dont have domed pistons, so i have to go with either dished, or flat, i bought the eagle 383 kit, with the keith black pistons , so im thinking they are dished

far as springs , yeah thats kinda the problem i ran into now, with my stock l98 heads and my hotcam, with rockers, after i put the head on i realized the springs would bind, so either replace springs or buy new heads, might as well go with the heads since its a 383 kinda pointless having a 383 with stock heads

Ic yeah competiton heads are a bit to much $ for me besides if my motor envolvs to a full out blow race motor in the future i can allways get them ported out .

SweetS10v8

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FIREBIRD7777
eeck, umm i know i dont dont have domed pistons, so i have to go with either dished, or flat, i bought the eagle 383 kit, with the keith black pistons , so im thinking they are dished


You only need the street port heads ($1250). I would also get the 68cc heads. They have them avaliable in an L98 spark plug design which would be your best choice. YOu can always port them later, but people run low to mid 11's N/A with standard AFR 195s.

I feel like a preacher, lol, i say this all the time....

"Heads are what make or break the power potential of your motor. They should be the most expencive thing you put on your engine."

Say you have two 400hp engines, one has AFR heads/10:1 compression and a small cam. The other has Stock heads 12:1 compression and a bigger cam.

I would take the first one any day of the week!! There is so much more potential in the first one. For example: You could take the compression and bump it up to 12:1 and add the same bigger cam. And the AFR motor will put out most likely 100hp more than stock headed motor.

Order em up, you wont be dissapointed. I sold my S-10 and i dont miss it, i just miss my AFRs!!!! They made such a HUGE difference, and I ended up paying $1600 for mine, so your getting a deal IMO.....

FIREBIRD7777

cool deal, i think your deffiantly right . Im about to sell my 95 z28 lt1 and use that money to invest into finishing my drive train up in my car. Since my daily driver is a 2003 4.3 vortech s/10 . My formula car deffiantly wont be stock with some inovations that hopefully will work out correctly.

since im sure this post is helping others out aswell, how about 1.6 rocker information., should i get the self align or non , im looking at the summit self alignes they are like 270ish

icecold

get the pro magnums in non self aligning as the afrs have guide plates.i would assume the trick flows also come with guide plates and you dont want self aligning rockers with guide plates
pete

FIREBIRD7777

Ok will do, you guys rock

camarojoe

Good choice, Firebird. If your going to spend at least 1 grand, why not spend a couple hundred more to get a better product out of the box? That's the way I look at it. Another thing is that I would consider another cam with that combo other than the lt-4 hot cam, unless you're after big low end tq #'s.

FIREBIRD7777

well reason im using that cam is becuase i built my motor off combos of what people are running here . There is no way i could have spec the motor i built out . I just dont know the mathmatics and number, and simple put engine knowledge to say well i will put this cam with these heads to give me x - amount of hp

Instead i just kinda used combos that everyone else is using, becuase i know they are turning some good times. so one thing leads to another and bigger and bigger the motor gets. If i had to do it over again i would have went with a 406 , since cheaper then 383 or for me it would have been , and besides as the saying say's there is no replacement for displacement but i had this crazy ideal of staying with my orginial block , which was dumb becuase now my car has gen ,2,3,4 parts on it. So stock went out the door anyhow.
Anyhow so the cam i bought is brand new and well its in the block allready ect ect, i have to take it somone who could put a cam in, i dont know how to change cams, i have seen it done, but im not confident to risk a 5k motor on it

And i kinda like the ideal of torque , im not much for 80mph+ anymore. Besides thats just gonna get me in trouble with smokie.

but im curiours what other cams would be good with my combo, how much more horses could i squeeze out with a better cam then my hot cam? And still be streetable.

camarojoe

If you want a lot of streetable tq, then you'll be happy with the hot cam, Firebird. I ran it in my old 350 Superram motor, and it was great, but then again it made me realize I want to have more top end. To each his own.