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iTrader: (2)

I plan on changing my valve springs at the same i change my valve seals and will be adding some comp 1.6 rr's. I also plan on buying the zz4 cam in the future.

What springs can I use now that will adapt smoothly to the zz4 later, but will be fine with what I am doing for now? Was looking at these:

CCA- 63-983-16
Comp Cams Valvesprings, Stock Diameter, set of 16.

I heard LT4 springs would work as well.

Should I get something else or will the zz4 work fine with the stock comp diameter ones?

80smetalfan

well, as far as what will work well with the zz4 well, yeah the LT4 valve springs should work well, since they are the valve springs the zz4 engine uses, which you might and probably know. as far as the comp ones, dunno about those, i'm a GMPP nerd . i wouldn't think they would make much of a HP gain over the LT4's. i don't think you're usually gonna get much of a noticeable gain in HP out of valvesprings alone unless the ones you're using are worn out or as you're talking about, ill-suited to your cam.

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iTrader: (2)

thanks for the reply.

not looking for a hp gain from the springs, just compatibility. i want to get the best suited springs for before the cam and after in case it's a year or so before i get to putting one in. i want to make sure the combo of springs/roller rockers alone work well together on their own. hope that clarifies.

bigals87z28

Nice set up man, almost exactlywhat Im doing. Have you ran it at the track? Im in the middle of a very slow, very long cam/head swap on my 305(read lazy) using the ZZ4 cam. Im going to go with pro mags for rr's and ported and cleaned up LB9 heads. I hope that I can net 13's after its all tuned.

80smetalfan

bigal-
thanks. haven't ran it at the track or much at all yet, besides a few highly illegal (speed-wise) trips around local county highways when the weather is unusually nice. i keep the car garaged for the winter, cause the paint job is the original, but starting to chip, and the previous owner treated the car like a g o d (didn't even let it see rain!), and i felt kinda guilty, lol. i believe it's capable of 13's, depending on how well i put the power to the ground. it's certainly a LOT better than the stock L03 setup that the car had when i got it. i probably won't run it till summer, as i'd like to get some aluminum drivetrain hardware and a shift kit before i run it. it won't even resume daily driving until march or so. i'm scared to drive it on snow. my older bro totalled his 84 Z on snowy/icy roads!

hovrbord- sorry, can't help ya much. if i was a betting man, i'd say it would be safer not to go with the lt4's since they're still GM (and not pure aftermarket) if you're really worried, better safe than sorry...

Captain C

What you have to consider when buying springs is at what lift they will bind. The ZZ4 cam is .474 intake and .510 Exhaust with 1.5 rockers (love it in my 350!) However, when you change the ratio to 1.6 then the lift becomes .506 Intake and .544 exhaust. So you are going to want springs that will handle about .560 lift minimum.

One thing to consider is that your heads won't flow all the air that setup is capable of. They would be fine after the porting with with the ZZ4 cam and 1.5's. I think the 1.6's would hurt you in this case. Unless you do something to your induction system, I don't think it will flow the air to the heads needed for that cam. Yes you will make good power, but not what the cam is capable of providing. There is a 500-700 rpm difference in the powerband on my car just by installing the larger Edelbrock runners vs the stock ones on my Edelbrock intake manifold. This with 1.5's on a ZZ4 in a 350.....

Another thing to consider, how much is the porting job going to cost you? $500-600??? Check into the price of a set of World Products S/R Torquer 305 heads. They have 171cc intake ports and 1.94/1.50 valves right off the bat. They already come with springs that will handle your ZZ4 (for around 50K miles) and should flow around 207 cfm intake right out of the box.

Just my $.02

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Great $.02. Captain, thanks.

I guess really I'm trying to see if the specs. below will handle the .560 lift needed. How am I finding the max lift from the given 1.150 bind?

CCA-983-16 Specifications:
* Single spring, no damper
* Inside diameter: .836 in.
* Seat load: 105 lbs. at 1.700 in.
* Open load: 310 lbs. at 1.200 in.
* Coil bind: 1.150 in.
* Rate: 410 lbs.


I was aware of the heads issue, but for now I want to see what I can do w/out changing them. I would definitely just buy a new set instead of paying to have them ported.

I too have the Edelbrock base and runners and both are ported. I do understand I can't take full advantage of the cam w/out the heads, but I will raise the power band some, right? Where abouts will it stop breathing?

Captain C

I would call the manufacturer about the springs as to what they will handle. They are the folks in the know. Also, a machine shop will be able to tell you as well.

As to the power band with the ZZ4 and 1.5"s. My car pulls hard to 5500 and stays flat to 5750 rpm before dropping off rapidly. Depending on the chip I have in my car, it starts pulling hard at 2500 or 3500.... (Very long story). The chip is going to be critical!!!!!!!!!

With the ZZ4 and 1.5's, I would imagine that you would pull hard to 6000-6250 in your combo with good heads. I think you will run out of air about 5500 even if you modify your existing heads. The problem is, you will lose low end due to the cam and calibration changes needed on the chip due to the head, induction, and cam changes. You won't gain back what you lost (or break even at best) on top end due to the lack of breathing capability in your heads. You only magnify the situation with the 1.6's....

Here's the long story......

When I had unmodified S/R heads and stock exhaust manifolds on my car (3" cutout before the CAT) using the stock 870 computer and Corvette chip: The car would pull like a bat out of Hades to 3500 rpm, pull pretty hard to 4500 rpm and totally laid over at 5200 rpm. With my adapter harness in place, 165 computer, and custom aftermarket $500 chip: It was a dog until 3500 rpm and pulled very hard until 5200 rpm.

After adding a 52MM TB, 1.5/8” headers, added 2.02/1.60 valves to bring them up to S/R Torquer specs, then pocket-porting the heads.......

The 870 computer/ stock chip pulled really hard from 2500 to 4750 before pulling (while surging) to 5500 rpm. The 165 computer/TPIS chip started pulling at 2750 and pulled hard until 4500 where it started pulling really hard until 5500.....

However, after all that money I only gained a half-tenth in the Q-mile.... Grrrrrr!!!!!! Of course the car is not setup for dragging, it’s setup for handling. I also suspect my fuel pump and injectors are on the small side........ I am running a Buick GN fuel pump and #24 injectors. I have a Bosch pump in the garage that is supposed to support 500hp, and I’ve been told that 28-30# injectors would be a better choice as well. I bought what was supposed to be the right size at the time....... I am grateful there is a board like this so that others don’t make the mistakes I did 10 years ago...... Read as much as possible so that you do it right the first time. It will save you a ton of work and more money....

PS: Car Craft had an article in their last issue about installing valve springs that would handle the LT4 Hot Cam with 1.6 RR's. They were pricey, but would last longer than the LT4 springs and would fit in the stock spring pockets where the LT4 springs won't.....

joshwilson3

.

bigals87z28

The world heads are good, but im looking to buy a set of ported LB9's with .550 springs. The Worlds are too $$$ for my taste. I think the 850 is better spent on a 350, and not on a 305. Ive thought about just staying 1.5, and if I do that im not gunan buy a set of rr's. When I go to a larger motor, the 1.5's will need to be 1.6's!! Unless I go with something different all together, i.e LS1/6, Big Block.
But if I could find a set of cheap 305 torquers, Id pick them up.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

i'm going to hold off on the cam i believe.
i want to see how deep into the 13's i can get with bolt-ons and some chip work. (need to read up on that DIY board!)

i think i might stick with some comp stock size valve springs in addition to some comp pro mag 1.6 rr's. that should give me some extra power as it is right?

anything else i might want to consider changing along with the seals, springs and rr's while i'm at it?

Captain C

The board just ate my post!!!!! It was a long one too!!!!!!Grrrrr!!!!! Looks like i have to write them in Microsoft Word and then post them.... It's going to be tomorrow before I will have time to rewrite everything......

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

<- - anxiously awaitng, heheh.

Captain C

Hovrbord: For some strange reason I was thinking you were building a 305.... I just noticed yesterday that you were building a 350. The ZZ4 cam will work pretty well with your engine with no other changes from stock. However, the stock heads are still the holdup for best power. Un-ported, the base and runners will flow more than your heads will. If you take the heads off to add the springs do a few things to them. Match the ports; try to straighten out the short side of the intake and do a bowl job. If you decide to rework the area around the valve stem, just remember which way the air flows around it and grind accordingly. The ported induction will work well with the ZZ4 and 1.6RR’s. I would suggest a set of AFR’s in the future..... If you decide to buy the 1.6RR’s now, buy the “Hot Cam” later instead of the ZZ4. It’s good for about 40 hp over the ZZ4/1.5...... BTW, if you don’t already have one, get a 52MM TB. You will love what it does for your car. And whatever you do, don’t gut the MAF!!!!! The computer will figure out something is wrong and lean you out in a big hurry. That means serious pinging at 16* initial advance!!!!! That’s why I’m running these stinking heavy forged pistons right now instead of the lightweight hypereutectic pistons I was running...... Try the newer style thick-film MAF, it’s supposed to flow about 20% more air that the stock type.

Since you are from California, remember that you still have to get this thing through smog. Your timing is supposed to be 6* and they do check that, so you will have to be sneaky at whatever you do. My ZZ4 likes 16* best so I set my timing at 16* then moved my adjustable pointer until it said 12*. When it comes time for smog I back the timing off until it says 6* which actually equals 10*. Right where Chevrolet says to put it in the smog legal carb setup.

BigAl: I wouldn’t even waste any money on the 305 if you are planning an upgrade to a 350+ engine. Just drive it until you get the new engine ready.

JoshWilson: The LT1 cam is better for your engine than the ZZ4, especially if you are running stock heads. They would still do much better if they were ported and upgraded to 1.94 intake valves. The World Products 305 S/R Torquer’s would still be the way to go if you are planning on sticking to the 305. I only recommend them because no one else makes a good head for the 305. All their efforts are directed towards the 4” or larger bore size. If you are planning on a 350 down the road save your money and build that. BTW, the dowel pin on the LT1 is longer than the Gen 1 cam dowel pin. You will need to cut off to the correct length or it may rub (or so I heard). Not exactly a big deal..... Bottom line is, what do you plan on using the car for???? Your stock cam is like .385I/.403E. The L98 cam is .403I/.415E (early roller version) and should be good for a solid 5K with no other work done to the engine or exhaust. With headers, maybe 5500 rpm. I think there was a later version of the L98 that was like .430/.450 lift. I don’t have the figures with me right now, they’re located on another computer at the moment. TPIS makes a “cheater” L98 cam. It has stock lift, but longer duration for more top-end. You might want to go to their website and check out what they have to offer.

TPISpecialties


To all: If you are planning on running roller rocker arms, tall valve covers may not fit your vehicle. They sure didn’t fit mine!!!! I ended up running late 70’s Corvette valve covers that I still had to modify for clearance. I had to grind out the dripper tabs and run two thick valve cover gaskets.... This is all I have time for today guys!!!!

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

woohoo, good reading.

I have left my MAF sensor oem, kept the screens even. Tryin' to stay away from throwin' codes until I find some help here in Sac regarding PROM tuning.

I'm going to hold off on the cam for now and go with the 1.6RR's and valve springs.

Whats the difference between the roller tip (63-1418-16) and the pro mag roller rockers (63-1318-16)? Which should I use for my app? And which valve springs to use? Will the stock diameter Comp ones I posted above be fine or another suggestion?

Captain C

I never threw a code for the gutted MAF...... As far as the roller tip versus full roller, it’s a strength issue. The roller tip reduces parasitic horsepower loss over a stock rocker, but it probably isn’t much stronger than a stock rocker arm. If you are running lots of spring pressure (310# is kind of high) and/or lots of RPM you would have a much greater chance of putting a pushrod through the cup.

For your purposes I would run the full roller. They are much stronger and further reduce the parasitic horsepower loss.