whitess

I did a search for this but with no luck, sorry if it's out there.
I have an '85 HO 305/carb that I want to add TPI to. I have a setup off of a '85 TPI motor so I can use the same heads. Can I use the 86-89 wiring harness and ECM with it? If so is there a "best" year harness/ECM to get? Should I also get the fuse box?
Any other suggestions/help are welcome.
Larry.

8Mike9

Do you have a harness or only the intake?

whitess

Just the intake.

8Mike9

Well, for cost issues, I'd suggest going with a 90-92 setup (speed density) to eliminate having to buy a MAF ($$), infact the cost of a MAf will be close to the cost of a new harness.

LD85

iTrader: (2)

I swapped a 1985 870 ECM for a 86-89 165 ECM, very easy to pin out and a MAF sensor is not that expensive,,, at like Autozone.

TKOPerformance

I'd go with the SD system mentioned. The MAF systems a twitchy. The MAF is like $300 from GM, which is all I'd recommend. Plenty of people, myself included, have had problems with reman MAFs.

Use a '90-'92 setup as mentioned.

LD85

iTrader: (2)

Just an FYI, www.TPIS.com has the MAF sensors for $250

whitess

Thanks all.
I had planned on buying the harness, et al. from someone like thirdgenresource so as to get all the "bells and whistles", but at some point the MAF will need replacing and cost could be a factor. So if the SD wiring will hook up to the '85 manifold then maybe that's the way to go. Is there anything on the '85 intake that isn't on a SD one (and vice versa)? I assume that the SD doesn't have the 9th injector, can the fitting just be plugged up for that?
Larry.

Captain C

You can plug the "Cold Start" injector hole in the intake with a 5/8" freeze plug IIRC. I would take the fuel rail to a Parts store (a real one not an Autozone or Kragen/Northern/Schucks, etc) Find the proper fitting to plug it with. Also, remove the intake air temperature sensor from the bottom of the plenum and install a 90* fitting that you can hook a vacuum line up to for your MAP sensor ($60). You will also need a different knock sensor for your MAP computer ($40?) as the 90-92 units are different from the 89 and earlier units. Install a 90 air temperature sensor (much better than the old one) in the air intake "Y" in front of the tube running to the MAF or throttlebody (if no MAF). BTW, the 89 setup requires no Cold Start injector yet retains the MAF. Just remember, the more you jack with things the more you get jacked around......

If you are running a stock/mild 305, a MAF system will run fine. The last unit I bought was $170 (reman) and works fine. you might want to try a "Thick Film" unit ($230) if you are going to install a mild 350 or radical 305. This will flow about 20% more than a stock unit.

With the induction system you bought, did you get the air intake ducting? Like the "Y" that goes over the top of your radiator for your cold air intake. How about the piece that it bolts to in front of the Radiator? Also, do you have electric fans or a regular fan? If you have a conventional fan you will have to change to an electric setup as the "Y" won't go over the shroud on a conventional fan.

Have you considered going to the Upgraded carb ECU
(#1228079) and knock sensor (#10456018 )? With this setup you should get better gas mileage and if you use the correct chip (#24502456) a ZZ4 or 385 hp crate motor should run really nice for you..... You can find a Part Number 1228079 ECM in any Caprice, Monte, Camaro 87/88 LG4/L69 or 350 police car as long as it has a Q-jet. So if you decide to upgrade your pre 87 ECM you'll have quite a few choices in the junkyard.

Here is a link to the spot on this site that covers a swap from a carb to TPI (and many other useful things)....

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/

:werd:

whitess

Captain,
I've done the update to the 87/88 ECM and prom already(car is an 85 Monte Carlo SS). By the way the ECM # has changed to 88999154.
When I get the harness I'll just get the ECM/PROM that goes with it. As far as the snorkel I've got one from a 1LE. The fans will come from an LT1 F Body.
Larry.
EDIT: I came across some more info on the differences between the '85 and 90-92 systems. It looks like I'd be better off just getting the whole shebang from the SD system and using my intake base. The one thing that could be a problem is the Throttle body differences. Thanks again for all the help.

Captain C

If you look deep enough on that section I gave you the link to, they have links on them that will show you what you need to do to make any combination of intake, runners, or throttle bodies work.

I didn't realize that you were putting this on a Monte Carlo SS. you will probably be better off using a cold air setup off of a LT1 or LS1 Camaro. You will still probably need to get some flex hose (GM TBI pickup?) to hook it all up. I think if you do this you will still be able to use your stock cooling fan. I think you will cool much better that way than with the electric stuff. Then again, you are in Boulder, Colorado.... Much cooler there than Bakersfield, California!!!!

The 86-88 injection setup is identical to the 85 setup. If you are planning on leaving the engine alone, I only see one problem. That being your engine has more cam than the 86 305's. The 85 LB9 305 is exactly the same long block as your engine. Just go with the entire 85 setup.

If you are going to change the engine to a larger or more radical engine. Forget the factory stuff and go with an Accel DFI computer. It comes with the wiring harness and sensors you need. It will allow you to modify all your settings with a laptop. That also allows you to take a "picture" of how your car is running while driving down the road. Infinite tunability.... Just a thought....

whitess

Yeh the '85 cam is more like the '87 350 TPI one. Ought to run pretty good.
Larry.

Captain C

Mine in bone stock form (other than an ADS Superchip) would pull 5K with power. If you added headers it should do even better. I didn't get headers until I had the 350 in the car....

Why are you converting your SS over to TPI for a stock motor? It will detract from it's collector value and realistically, not make it enough faster to worry about. If it's because of the cold engine driveability, definitely stick to the stock 85 computer, albeit use the IROC-Z or the ADS Superchip. The stock Z28 chip stunk!!!! BTW, I only reccomend the ADS for the 305, not the 350... I didn't care for the ADS 350 chip.

You should be able to get a factory chip for the 870 computer for about $50. Be sure the other chip in the computer (went brain dead on the name) is from a Camaro. That chip has the info on it for the vehicle, weight, gearing, transmission, etc. You want it to match as close to your car as possible!!!! The 2nd chip is $20 or so. I paid $13 for mine about 5 years ago.....

whitess

I want a little more horsepower and torque. A little more of both in the mountains will make it more fun to drive. As far as keeping the value the Monte's aren't at the "collectors" level like the Camaro's and Firebird's are. If I ever sell it all the original parts will go with it. As far as cold drivability I have no problems. I have no use for a chip, I'm not going to race it and for every other kind of driving there are better ways of getting the best use of the power that's there.
Larry.

Captain C

All computers have "Chips" in them, including the one for your carb. The chips I recommended were for drivability improvement.
The stock one in my first 85 Z-28 was so bad there was a factory recall on it. The name of the 2nd chip I couldn't remember is the Memcal. It is a separate chip in 1985

The chips I am suggesting are basically stock (IROC-Z is stock) with a slightly higher rpm before the converter locks up, thus helping your low end torque and maybe giving a little more horsepower to boot. I am talking the street chip for the ADS, not the off road chip. There is only a minimal difference between it and the IROC-Z chip for the 85 305 TPI. Not worth spending the money to upgrade if you already have the IROC-Z chip

If you buy the computer new/remanufactured, they don't have chips in them so you will still have to purchase the chips separately.

whitess

Sorry I meant the aftermarket chips.

Captain C

I have a friend who is getting ready to rebuild his 1984 El Camino. He is looking to upgrade the motor to at least 1985 L69 305 specs and maybe to ZZ4 level.

I'm wondering what did you actually have to do to upgrade the computer in your car to the #88999154 computer? Did you have to change the knock sensor and add an ESC module??? I've checked some of the Monte Carlo sites and they are about as clear as mud in most cases. Certainly nothing like the schematics and stuff you can find links to on this site.

whitess

Try this:
http://www.montecarloss.com/cgi-bin/...;f=12;t=001935
If that doesn't link try:
http://www.montecarloss.com
Message board
Search
"ECM"
"All Things Electrical"
Member #691
It's the 1st one. With that search you'll find answers to the ZZ4 questions and a lot of other help. Please recommend to your friend with the SS that he come and join us, we'd love to have him or anyone else with a 78-88 A/G body car.
The knock sensor and ESC will be the same with the 305. If he goes to a 350 then the ESC and knock sensor will need to be changed out for ones for a 350. The ZZ4 chip doesn't work if he's keeping the EGR on a 350, it's for use on engines without the EGR valve and will fry the chip and pop up a code (51 or 54).
The ZZ4 with EGR will work with the 350 ESC and Knock sensor.
Larry.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Larry, try & find a wrecked car so you can go complete and not have to scavenge for parts. I did mine all off an 86 IROC and not having to chase down missing parts is well worth it! Right now w/ a stock engine, I wouldn't worry about whether you get MAF or SD.

88-89 firebird air ducting works great in your car; relocate the battery to the drivers side w/ a firebird cable & it fits perfect.

whitess

J Matthew,
Boy you're everywhere!
Thanks.
Larry.