wideband vs narrow band O2 (results inside)
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Originally posted by 11sORbust
My eyes tell me that the narrow band has 0 use for wot tuning.
My eyes tell me that the narrow band has 0 use for wot tuning.
I think plotting both on the same graph would only strengthen the argument that only a WB is useful for tuning. But it would offer definitive proof as to why the NB is useless.
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I don't know how to add polt lines with my software. I can say that the mv was 960-925 both runs. You can see that the stock O2 looks the same in both runs. Mv's dip a hair in the same spot and everything. I think it's clear that the NB missed the 17:1 ratio on the first run.
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Was the wide band sensor at the tailpipe? I would have to say something is wrong with one of the sensors (or setup of them) in the first run, maybe the narrow band wasn't warmed up? The narrow band is fast reacting, I find it hard to believe that it should showed a 925 mv when the afr was 17:1.
Good post though.
And yes the wb sensor is the only way to tune wot. But I think a gtech and a narrow band sensor are pretty good too.
Good post though.
And yes the wb sensor is the only way to tune wot. But I think a gtech and a narrow band sensor are pretty good too.
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Put them in a table in Excel and then graph them.
Was the wide band sensor at the tailpipe?
I would have to say something is wrong with one of the sensors (or setup of them) in the first run, maybe the narrow band wasn't warmed up?
One other little thing that scares me about using the nb. A pal from team3rdgen told me an odd story. He had DFI and nitrous. The nitrous company told him to start with 2X% more fuel for the spray. So he sarted spraying it with 1000mv output from the stock o2. He would reduce the fuel and the car ran faster. The car ran the hardest with the mv at .200-.300. It didn't blow up either. Nice little scarry story.
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This the first time I've seen a nb vs. a wb, good info man! I gotta tell ya, I don't trust my nb as much now.
So were you making changes to your VE tables, or your PE afr. And where these baby steps or big changes?
So were you making changes to your VE tables, or your PE afr. And where these baby steps or big changes?
Last edited by Low C1500; 11-17-2003 at 11:54 PM.
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Thanks, I worked really hard to document that day at the dyno. Like I said in other threads, I have the bins,log files and scanned dyno sheets for each run(8 total). I made changes between each pull and everything. I have all 8 dyno sheets/logs/bins in a zip file if you want to check them out.
Tim
Tim
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I had to lear how to get the a/f lined out, cause it was far off and I was working with static injectors. But if you look at all the data, you can get a feel for how much to add/subtract. I experimented with spark and fuel...
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Hey Glenn, I think this is what you were looking for. This is from my 11.66 run. The anamoly in the middle is me letting of the gas slightly when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I didn't even realize I did that until I compiled this data. You can also see the excessive pump shot that needs to be reduced ... while decreasing the decay rate. I need less pump shot but I need it to hang around longer.
Tim
Tim
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Nice log trax, the argument could be made that shooting for .880v on narrow band can yeild an ok afr. Thats also the mv that my motor pulled the hardest at .
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Originally posted by Low C1500
Nice log trax, the argument could be made that shooting for .880v on narrow band can yeild an ok afr. Thats also the mv that my motor pulled the hardest at .
Nice log trax, the argument could be made that shooting for .880v on narrow band can yeild an ok afr. Thats also the mv that my motor pulled the hardest at .
Nothing acts like a Wideband though. In the graph above you can clearly see that you can get several NB O2 readings for the SAME WB AFR reading. Thus, the NB O2 is clearly not accurate.
Tim
Last edited by TRAXION; 11-18-2003 at 08:57 AM.
#16
Originally posted by TRAXION
Hey Glenn, I think this is what you were looking for. This is from my 11.66 run. The anamoly in the middle is me letting of the gas slightly when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I didn't even realize I did that until I compiled this data. You can also see the excessive pump shot that needs to be reduced ... while decreasing the decay rate. I need less pump shot but I need it to hang around longer.
Tim
Hey Glenn, I think this is what you were looking for. This is from my 11.66 run. The anamoly in the middle is me letting of the gas slightly when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I didn't even realize I did that until I compiled this data. You can also see the excessive pump shot that needs to be reduced ... while decreasing the decay rate. I need less pump shot but I need it to hang around longer.
Tim
The way you have it, the two outputs deviate from each when the car gets richer or leaner.
The reason why a wideband works better for tuning is because its easier to read the 11.0-13.0 AFR's. the wideband is extremely linear while the narrow isn't. The narrowband can read the same AFR but a small change in NB voltage corresponds to a larger jump in afr and its not linear so you can't say that .20mv changes the AFR ratio by X.
A wideband is definately not magic, i'm figureing out if you learn to read both on the same datarun you can find a wealth of information.. particularly useful in finding misfires
ALSO, turn up the sampling rate in your scan tool, alot of times the stock o2's won't see the quick change that your wideband is reporting because your don't sample your stock o2's fast enough.
#17
also rescale them correctly so they more closely follow each other.
for instance, graph the wideband from 13.5 TO 10.0
then graph the narrow from 850 to 950
I hate graphs cause you have to take special attention to graph them. They are alot like statistics, you can play with them to get the results you want.
for instance, graph the wideband from 13.5 TO 10.0
then graph the narrow from 850 to 950
I hate graphs cause you have to take special attention to graph them. They are alot like statistics, you can play with them to get the results you want.
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And so far no one's looked at EGT's and backpressure which further skew the NB's.
880 might work in 9 out of 10 cars. Personally I don't want to be running car number ten long term.
Not to mention that it seems like lots of folks are falling prey to ONLY watching a NB O2, and thinking that it's an good answer, when in fact it's not. There are other forums where folks to this day are thinking 850+ is safe and constantly blowing HG's and wondering why.
880 might work in 9 out of 10 cars. Personally I don't want to be running car number ten long term.
Not to mention that it seems like lots of folks are falling prey to ONLY watching a NB O2, and thinking that it's an good answer, when in fact it's not. There are other forums where folks to this day are thinking 850+ is safe and constantly blowing HG's and wondering why.
#19
exhaust pressure effects the widebands in the exact same way.
i'd still like graphs replotted, i'll think they will be surpizingly close for you guys.
When tuning, you should tune for what the car likes, not 880mv or even 13.0 on a wideband.
remeber, a wideband isn't a magic wand for the tuners
i'd still like graphs replotted, i'll think they will be surpizingly close for you guys.
When tuning, you should tune for what the car likes, not 880mv or even 13.0 on a wideband.
remeber, a wideband isn't a magic wand for the tuners
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Rooster433,
I'm not replotting anything. It's on a different computer and I had to make a reasonable effort just to get the JPG over to here. Since you have similar data ... please plot YOUR data in the manner that YOU want. My plot is fine for the point I was trying to get across.
Tim
I'm not replotting anything. It's on a different computer and I had to make a reasonable effort just to get the JPG over to here. Since you have similar data ... please plot YOUR data in the manner that YOU want. My plot is fine for the point I was trying to get across.
Tim
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Originally posted by rooster433
i don't have that data in any excel format.
If you don't want to plot the data again fine, i'm not going to cry.. but i will tell you your not making a good point with the graph.
i don't have that data in any excel format.
If you don't want to plot the data again fine, i'm not going to cry.. but i will tell you your not making a good point with the graph.
1) The NB and WB show the same trends
2) You can get a really good idea of AFR based on O2 mV so long as you have put a wideband O2 on your own setup and compared that to your own narrowband O2.
3) Small changes in O2 mV can represent big changes in AFR
4) Sometimes the AFR changes with no changes in O2 mV.
5) Sometimes the O2 mV changes with no changes in AFR.
What points are you trying to make with my data?
Tim
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Tim, I also like your graph. I do not see where you lifted off the gas? Are you positive that you did this?
To me it just kind of looks like you went slightly rich at the top of your gear, then lean at the shift recovery which seems pretty normal to me... especially give the big load the engine sees with a manual transmission.
Just wondering.
I also see the point rooster is making about scaling the graph so it's a more accurate visual comparison.
To me it just kind of looks like you went slightly rich at the top of your gear, then lean at the shift recovery which seems pretty normal to me... especially give the big load the engine sees with a manual transmission.
Just wondering.
I also see the point rooster is making about scaling the graph so it's a more accurate visual comparison.
Last edited by 305sbc; 11-18-2003 at 03:26 PM.
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Originally posted by rooster433
exhaust pressure effects the widebands in the exact same way.
remeber, a wideband isn't a magic wand for the tuners
exhaust pressure effects the widebands in the exact same way.
remeber, a wideband isn't a magic wand for the tuners
Wouldn't it depend on how you define majic wand.
While it's not perfect, it's a tool that allows one to better use their resources. And sadly plug reading is getting to be a lost art.
#26
The tech edge guys have a warning on thier page about supercharged/turboed cars having different exhaust pressure and to be cautious that they don't as they should.
I agree I have no data saying by how much each are changed by exhaust pressure
Temperature also matters..
What matters most I've found is ignition health
Also, I don't know about you guys but i've personally had this happen to me on three different cars now. All supercharged. You can dial the wideband to whatever you want say 12.0 to one but the stock 02's will say 400-600.. well because the car isn't running right for kicks I'll throw in an obserb amount of fuel and the wide band will jump to 13-14:1. From then you can continue to tune and get it right with the wideband.
SO my point is somehow you can get the car so lean that the wideband will actually read in the other direction.
Agian, its happend to me maybe 3 times now, all on supercharged cars (don't know if thats the determining factor or not) and every time i've like trippled the PE values. I've had this occur with 3 different brand wideband controllers all useing the honda sensor.
For me, I'm happier getting it close with the narrowbands, verifying with the wideband, and tuning the rest of the way at the track.
I agree I have no data saying by how much each are changed by exhaust pressure
Temperature also matters..
What matters most I've found is ignition health
Also, I don't know about you guys but i've personally had this happen to me on three different cars now. All supercharged. You can dial the wideband to whatever you want say 12.0 to one but the stock 02's will say 400-600.. well because the car isn't running right for kicks I'll throw in an obserb amount of fuel and the wide band will jump to 13-14:1. From then you can continue to tune and get it right with the wideband.
SO my point is somehow you can get the car so lean that the wideband will actually read in the other direction.
Agian, its happend to me maybe 3 times now, all on supercharged cars (don't know if thats the determining factor or not) and every time i've like trippled the PE values. I've had this occur with 3 different brand wideband controllers all useing the honda sensor.
For me, I'm happier getting it close with the narrowbands, verifying with the wideband, and tuning the rest of the way at the track.
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Originally posted by rooster433
The tech edge guys have a warning on thier page about supercharged/turboed cars having different exhaust pressure and to be cautious that they don't as they should.
I agree I have no data saying by how much each are changed by exhaust pressure
Temperature also matters..
What matters most I've found is ignition health
Also, I don't know about you guys but i've personally had this happen to me on three different cars now. All supercharged. You can dial the wideband to whatever you want say 12.0 to one but the stock 02's will say 400-600.. well because the car isn't running right for kicks I'll throw in an obserb amount of fuel and the wide band will jump to 13-14:1. From then you can continue to tune and get it right with the wideband.
SO my point is somehow you can get the car so lean that the wideband will actually read in the other direction.
Agian, its happend to me maybe 3 times now, all on supercharged cars (don't know if thats the determining factor or not) and every time i've like trippled the PE values. I've had this occur with 3 different brand wideband controllers all useing the honda sensor.
For me, I'm happier getting it close with the narrowbands, verifying with the wideband, and tuning the rest of the way at the track.
The tech edge guys have a warning on thier page about supercharged/turboed cars having different exhaust pressure and to be cautious that they don't as they should.
I agree I have no data saying by how much each are changed by exhaust pressure
Temperature also matters..
What matters most I've found is ignition health
Also, I don't know about you guys but i've personally had this happen to me on three different cars now. All supercharged. You can dial the wideband to whatever you want say 12.0 to one but the stock 02's will say 400-600.. well because the car isn't running right for kicks I'll throw in an obserb amount of fuel and the wide band will jump to 13-14:1. From then you can continue to tune and get it right with the wideband.
SO my point is somehow you can get the car so lean that the wideband will actually read in the other direction.
Agian, its happend to me maybe 3 times now, all on supercharged cars (don't know if thats the determining factor or not) and every time i've like trippled the PE values. I've had this occur with 3 different brand wideband controllers all useing the honda sensor.
For me, I'm happier getting it close with the narrowbands, verifying with the wideband, and tuning the rest of the way at the track.
He doesn't mention that the backpressure difference was something that I first alerted folks about?.
And it was specific to turbo cars where in some applications, there EBP can be 2x the boost level so in a 20 PSI boost situation you maybe looking at 40 PSI. A search of DIY-EFI.org site would give the dates and specifics, of what I found. It's been established by many people that going post turbo is the best answer. The Bosch may not suffer from this at all, but I don't know of anyone stating that as fact.
In the sampling I've done at the tailpipe, vs at the collector, I've never been able to measure any difference. This was with 2 WB's operating at the same time. While not done as or with lab grade equipment I couldn't see where any reasonable amount of EBP effected the readings.
But, like I've said many times, tuning includes notes, and looking at trends.
The operating temp of the sensor's element is 850dC, or about 1,800dF. If your EGT exceeds that then yes, EGT can effect it.
Yes, timing and ignition do effect the O2 level in the exhaust. But, we were agreeing that the WB isn't to be used solely as the final verdict.
And I'd add plug reading to the process you discribe.
#28
Have you been able to notice any post turbo/supercharged differences?
The TE website actually says (if i'm not mistaken) that it could occur on the supercharged cars too.
I'm not quite sure how thats possible, or if its revelent enough to matter.
I believe the only reason why I see such anomolys with the widebands is because the cars I've seen this on have been 1 bar speed density supercharged cars. all of which need way more than usual PE settings.
The TE website actually says (if i'm not mistaken) that it could occur on the supercharged cars too.
I'm not quite sure how thats possible, or if its revelent enough to matter.
I believe the only reason why I see such anomolys with the widebands is because the cars I've seen this on have been 1 bar speed density supercharged cars. all of which need way more than usual PE settings.
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I know its been covered before, but does anyone (TRAX?) want to share what kind of 3 wire NB sensor there running, and did you just get it off a gm vehicle listing (ie: 97 4.3L).
Gotta go get me one right away.
Gotta go get me one right away.
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Originally posted by Low C1500
I know its been covered before, but does anyone (TRAX?) want to share what kind of 3 wire NB sensor there running, and did you just get it off a gm vehicle listing (ie: 97 4.3L).
Gotta go get me one right away.
I know its been covered before, but does anyone (TRAX?) want to share what kind of 3 wire NB sensor there running, and did you just get it off a gm vehicle listing (ie: 97 4.3L).
Gotta go get me one right away.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=209443
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according to my results, the NB is good for nothing. I agree with tim that .XXXmv could be verified for your setup to be X a/f ratio. But when the sensor's output is like the charts I have, I wouldn't trust it.
On the flipside, could an exhaust leak effect both or one of the sensors,theoretically.?
On the flipside, could an exhaust leak effect both or one of the sensors,theoretically.?
Last edited by 11sORbust; 11-18-2003 at 08:35 PM.
#33
you and trax might have the same sensor... but you also have a horrible way of graphing them.
I'm trying to show you guys that you can get better results from them if you scale your tables right..
refer to my taco vs burger chart.. noticed how each are scaled.. i tried to make them have the same price curve threw the years BUT look at one goes down while the others going up... look familiar?
maybe i should make the chart hustler vs playboy with a few little visuals.. maybe that will open your eyes
I'm trying to show you guys that you can get better results from them if you scale your tables right..
refer to my taco vs burger chart.. noticed how each are scaled.. i tried to make them have the same price curve threw the years BUT look at one goes down while the others going up... look familiar?
maybe i should make the chart hustler vs playboy with a few little visuals.. maybe that will open your eyes
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or I could send you the data and have you graph it!? I am horrible at graphing. But I am a HS dropout, so what do you expect? I don't think it takes anything special to see the NB is way off on the first pull. Those are actual bits of log data. I took snapshot of the diag software and just slapped on some text.....
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Originally posted by rooster433
you and trax might have the same sensor... but you also have a horrible way of graphing them.
I'm trying to show you guys that you can get better results from them if you scale your tables right..
refer to my taco vs burger chart.. noticed how each are scaled.. i tried to make them have the same price curve threw the years BUT look at one goes down while the others going up... look familiar?
maybe i should make the chart hustler vs playboy with a few little visuals.. maybe that will open your eyes
you and trax might have the same sensor... but you also have a horrible way of graphing them.
I'm trying to show you guys that you can get better results from them if you scale your tables right..
refer to my taco vs burger chart.. noticed how each are scaled.. i tried to make them have the same price curve threw the years BUT look at one goes down while the others going up... look familiar?
maybe i should make the chart hustler vs playboy with a few little visuals.. maybe that will open your eyes
As said previously - my graph supports what I wanted to get across. If you have an opinion that you want to get across then post your data according to your own graphing methods. Either put-up or shut-up.
Tim
#36
Heres how you can do it
11.5/950mv
12.0/930
12.8/900
13.0/890
14.0/600
14.7/460
BY
your RPM..
Do it on pencil and paper or maybe paint it doesn't matter what you do it in.
**Disclaimer I'm not totally sure about 2-3 of those Y points.. I'm taking a resonable guess.. the important ones between 890-930 13.0-12.0 are correct. BESIDES... what are you tunign for a number or more HP?
I don't have your same datalogging software
11.5/950mv
12.0/930
12.8/900
13.0/890
14.0/600
14.7/460
BY
your RPM..
Do it on pencil and paper or maybe paint it doesn't matter what you do it in.
**Disclaimer I'm not totally sure about 2-3 of those Y points.. I'm taking a resonable guess.. the important ones between 890-930 13.0-12.0 are correct. BESIDES... what are you tunign for a number or more HP?
I don't have your same datalogging software
#37
Originally posted by TRAXION
Maybe you need to chill out and contribute something instead of making requests and telling everyone what you think they are doing wrong. I know plenty about graphing and scaling graphs. Why don't you just say what you want to say regarding the NB vs. the WB instead of trying to get someone else to cater their data to support an opinion before you even state it.
As said previously - my graph supports what I wanted to get across. If you have an opinion that you want to get across then post your data according to your own graphing methods. Either put-up or shut-up.
Tim
Maybe you need to chill out and contribute something instead of making requests and telling everyone what you think they are doing wrong. I know plenty about graphing and scaling graphs. Why don't you just say what you want to say regarding the NB vs. the WB instead of trying to get someone else to cater their data to support an opinion before you even state it.
As said previously - my graph supports what I wanted to get across. If you have an opinion that you want to get across then post your data according to your own graphing methods. Either put-up or shut-up.
Tim
Why don't you just prove me wrong?
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Originally posted by rooster433
Why do you get so hostile when someone challenges your idea. If i had the same data laying around I would do it. Doesn't matter u don't seem to listen anyway.
Why don't you just prove me wrong?
Why do you get so hostile when someone challenges your idea. If i had the same data laying around I would do it. Doesn't matter u don't seem to listen anyway.
Why don't you just prove me wrong?
Tim
Last edited by TRAXION; 11-18-2003 at 09:46 PM.
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Originally posted by 305sbc
I do not see where you lifted off the gas? Are you positive that you did this?
I do not see where you lifted off the gas? Are you positive that you did this?
Tim
#40
aight
This guy started the post saying the o2's are useless..
Instead of you sharing with the guy, showing him that thats not the case that they are good for something you have to post a hodge podge graph that means nothing towards or against that arguement.. in fact it would just make the normal person believe that is the case, that at wide open they are good for nothing.
Do you understand now?
I've been, the whole time trying to say that they are consistant and pretty good for tuning.
I've been the entire time getting someone who has the data to post a accurate chart that would show what i'm saying..
This guy started the post saying the o2's are useless..
Instead of you sharing with the guy, showing him that thats not the case that they are good for something you have to post a hodge podge graph that means nothing towards or against that arguement.. in fact it would just make the normal person believe that is the case, that at wide open they are good for nothing.
Do you understand now?
I've been, the whole time trying to say that they are consistant and pretty good for tuning.
I've been the entire time getting someone who has the data to post a accurate chart that would show what i'm saying..
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Originally posted by rooster433
aight
This guy started the post saying the o2's are useless..
Instead of you sharing with the guy, showing him that thats not the case that they are good for something you have to post a hodge podge graph that means nothing towards or against that arguement..
aight
This guy started the post saying the o2's are useless..
Instead of you sharing with the guy, showing him that thats not the case that they are good for something you have to post a hodge podge graph that means nothing towards or against that arguement..
I graphed it the way that I did for two major reasons...
1) To show that you can get a really good idea of AFR based on O2mV.
2) To show that a given NB mV doesn't always correspond to the same AFR.
What does that mean? That means that I can use O2mV to get in the ballpark on my setup and that the Wideband will allow me to fine tune and really nail down the fueling.
I already said exactly what you are trying to 'prove' and yet you are poking at me? I don't get it.
Tim
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I gotta say that TRAX's graph is pretty clear. A narrow band isn't linear, and a wide band kinda is. So by inversing the NB .mv and plotting it with the WB nothing will be proved other than they went up and down together.
Rooster, I see your point, but man, its pointless.
Although you could probably fudge the NB values and make them just about match the WB, you'd have to use logarithmics though.
Rooster, I see your point, but man, its pointless.
Although you could probably fudge the NB values and make them just about match the WB, you'd have to use logarithmics though.
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Rooster,
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
Now, let me throw another idea into the mix here, I may even start a new thread about it. Has anyone messed with the 0-1 volt output on some of the wideband controllers? Has it been more linear, and therefore a more reliable input to the ECM for O2 voltage? I guess I'm just wondering if I get a WB with the 0-1 output, would it's 0-1 be any better than the basic NB O2?
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
Now, let me throw another idea into the mix here, I may even start a new thread about it. Has anyone messed with the 0-1 volt output on some of the wideband controllers? Has it been more linear, and therefore a more reliable input to the ECM for O2 voltage? I guess I'm just wondering if I get a WB with the 0-1 output, would it's 0-1 be any better than the basic NB O2?
#44
Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
Rooster,
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
Rooster,
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
Go check trax's table again
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Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
If he were to scale the chart differently, it would just make the differences harder to see. Anyone that has any idea about AFR vs. O2 mv knows that they are opposite, lower MV is a higher AFR.
Tim
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Let the fun begin ....
I got access to the computer in question and regraphed using the scales that YOU suggested. Let the fun begin. So tell me rooster .... exactly what does this graph show that my previous one didn't? I'm waiting on your answer. Be specific please.
Tim
Tim
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rooster, I posted the data to show what I have. I didn't title the thread "narrow band is useless". I tune big cammed,n/a engines. They seem to show the same trend. That the mv is useless for some reason. It could be cam overlap or something. I really can't explain why one can't use o2 mv for the type of engines I work on. For milder apps, the o2 might have some use. But when I see a a/f ratio of 17:1 and a mv readings of .950 then I know that the NB is worth a crap. You can't argue that.
You might have a point BUT you have to have the technical data to back yourself up in this forum. I don't think you have bad intentions. But you are going to get nowhere w/o any hard data. I am the kvu guy tim mentioned. I never had anything in the past to support my theories. So the result was I couldn't PROVE my point. Then the my post turned into bait. So before you start making a point in diy-prom, you better have the data.
Trust me, I wanted to scale the a/f to mv. But I really don't think it's honestly possible. The position of the sensor and a billion other things makes it impossible to make the mv convert to a/f ratio IN GENERAL.
please don't get upset and find the data to support your views. But you really need to take my data into consideration. Cause the factory o2 is far from a a/f ratio gauge.
Tim
You might have a point BUT you have to have the technical data to back yourself up in this forum. I don't think you have bad intentions. But you are going to get nowhere w/o any hard data. I am the kvu guy tim mentioned. I never had anything in the past to support my theories. So the result was I couldn't PROVE my point. Then the my post turned into bait. So before you start making a point in diy-prom, you better have the data.
Trust me, I wanted to scale the a/f to mv. But I really don't think it's honestly possible. The position of the sensor and a billion other things makes it impossible to make the mv convert to a/f ratio IN GENERAL.
please don't get upset and find the data to support your views. But you really need to take my data into consideration. Cause the factory o2 is far from a a/f ratio gauge.
Tim
#48
Pretty consistant from what I've been saying from all along and pretty consistant with every car i've tuned.
They aren't useless, and when graph properly (like the treadstarter can't do) You can see the data you need to make this assumption.
They aren't useless, and when graph properly (like the treadstarter can't do) You can see the data you need to make this assumption.