ski_dwn_it

Wanted to share with you my results I got yesterday.

As always it was a blast to head to Mason Dixon, MD for some good racing with Corky and Jim (85vet) and their wives.

This was the first time back to the track since mortally wounding my D44 carrier and having my stall converter upgraded to 4200 Stall.

I worked my butt off Friday night getting the car put back together. Took it home from the dealership for a shakedown run ~5miles with the new converter and rear (thanks Jburnett) for the cryo treated carrier. All was good. The car with that converter stall is UNREAL! At 35-40mph with slicks on the street it will break them loose! I about crapped my pants. Not to mention I probably woke up a few neighbors at 1am testing it out. I was also VERY surprised that street driveability is actually no different than before. Which I was sorta worried about with going this high. Anyways off to the track

It was the mean street nationals there, so the place was packed.

For the first run of the day I left the converter unlocked as instructed by Vigilante. Got out of the water box with a good burnout and no report from the rear differential so I was pleased with that Got to the line and staged.
Came off the line at about 1200RPM just enough to get the slop out of the rear, and get the motor off its ~900 RPM idle. Man did that sucker hit nard when I nailed it! Cranked down the 1/4 like no other. Got to the end and figured for SURE it was a 10sec pass. Here are the results from that run:

R/T .627 (must have fallen asleep)
60' 1.481
330 4.467
1/8 7.017 (new best)
mph 95.93
1000 9.223
1/4 11.112
mph 119.72 (didn't like the looks of that! Said I was going to go against Vigilantes advice and lock up the converter)

Second run with the converter locked....

R/T .537 (still asleep...left at about 1800)
60' 1.496 (Not as good as the first run..crap)
330 4.484
1/8 7.003 (new best)
mph 96.62
1000 9.208
1/4 11.074 (new best ET :cheers
mph 121.17

The shifting of the car is totally different now, in the sense before I could *hear* when to shift, now all that is messed up with the new converter. So I am a little behind in my shifts. Probably a lot behind actually. ~300-500 RPM off I would say. It *feels* like a whole new motor with this higher stall. I got very used to the other one after a zillion passes. Got to the point 1/2 the time I wasn't even looking for the shift light, just new where to shift. Usually my runs were within .001 second if comparing 60' =>1/8 mile =>1/4 mile intervals. Now its like relearning everything over again.

The first round of eliminations I dialed a 11.00....as Corky said putting the 10.98 would be a jinks, so I entertained his superstition and dialed flat 11.

The one A-hole official sent me to the other lane (wanted to keep as much the same as possible for comparison), after having a few choise words with him in the staging lanes, I got to make my run. Corky has been getting 1.44 60' times leaving high in the stall, so I thought I would try it higher and see what happen.

Dial 11.00
R/T .634 (WTF and I doing...this day was my worst light all year long)
60' 1.488 (after this 60' time, I am convinced I am better off at a lower RPM launch..If I would have gotten a better 60', it would have been there)
330 4.456
1/8 6.964 (First sub 7 eighth mile! :cheers: :thumbs
mph 95.61
1000 9.164
1/4 11.026 (new best ET :cheers
mph 121.02

Man that was soooooo friggin close. Again I hosed up my shifts...lol....the friggin motor in this thing is just screamin with this converter in it....I don't hear the climbing RPM anymore...so I am going to have to lower my shift point to about 4700 RPM so when I miss it, I am at about 5300 till I get used to the car again

But dang that was close. The bad news is I got eliminated by .02 sec...Dangit. Without a doubt if I would have gotten one more run, with the lower shift point, I would have gotten the 10sec slip. But Oh well. It will give me something to work for next time out. Made some nice gains across the board with the car this weekend with the mods done to it. I have a few more tricks up my sleeve, one I know will gain me some ET...so stay tuned for more to come! :cheers: :thumbs: :lurk:

Also I thought it would be important to add...if your looking Precision Industries....YOU do not know dick abou your own product. Locking it makes a world of difference. Why you would tell people not to lock it, is beyond me. If its because of longevity...then tell them the risks and let them make up thier own minds.
:mad

DannyT

Awesome times. I'm still confused as to why you are shifting so early (5200RPMS?) when that is right at your HP peak. What do you run when you stretch it out to 5500-5700 RPMs?

ski_dwn_it

Danny that intake is done at 5150 with the CI motor we have. If you had a 350 it might take it to about 5600, but not with these air hungry motors.

Thanks for the comment!

clippjr8

congrats ski! sounds like you are gonna beat down the 10 sec door on your next time out. im thinking on which converter to get for my setup and by the way it sounds, i might lean towards the art car. what is your overall opinion on vigilante converters versus the competition? just want some input.

ski_dwn_it

CHIPPER,

Interesting quetion. I have to say driveability is extremely good with this converter.

But if I had it to do all over again I would buy a TCI non-lockup like Corky has. Its about 300 beans less and can't argue the results he's having. This past weekend, he ran 10.91! That is the only difference beween his car and mine really.

It took him a while, as it is me also to get everything lined back up and put the whole package together, but it will happen I think. I am 100% happy with were I am at and this combo. In the modified class we ran this weekend at the National Mean Street event, Cork and I were probably, from what I saw, and the comments we got the two fastest fun trim N/A cars there.

So as I said, anything more, is just icing on the cake. Cork is pulling out his motor and piecing it out....getting ready for more fun to come next year from us

DannyT

Hmmm. Although my 383 is smaller than your 406 it pulls hard all the way up to 5600-5700 RPMs when I shift. I am running the stock tach though so I can't say I truly know where I am shifting at. Since my 60fts and 1/8 are becoming fairly consistent I guess it wouldn't hurt to try a few runs at 5200 RPMs for comparison. I am running a smaller cam than you also (ZZ9) along with more resrictive headers, not sure how that affects my power band compared to yours.

ski_dwn_it

Give it a try....can't hurt. Most SR cars like mid to low 5K range. It really is too tough to determine without trial and error testing. unfortunately, sometime you only get 3 runs

camarojoe

Since your other threads got closed , Ski, I'll give you congrats here. Good Job with those times. Those closed threads did have some hilarious posts didn't they?

Even though I know a lot of people are sick of you and Bruce going at it, I think the majority of us think it's really quite funny. Some people just don't get what the performance aspect of this hobby is all about. I can't believe that some people take so much $hit for running good and actually proving that they got good results from their tuning efforts. It's funny how some boards on this site are like swimming in waters infested by great whites, you never know when you're gonna get torn to pieces. Put your enigne in an f-body and I'm sure you'll get treated equally in every board then. jk.

bigals87z28

yeah i hate it when i pull 1.4 60'!! hehe nice times man! Very nice! MD dragway....ahh memories of the TGN running the worst times ever and getting a 2.56 60'.

ski_dwn_it

Thanks Guys...

Yeah camarojoe, but at the end of the day when you go and compete with 500+ street cars, and your one of the two quickest N/A cars there with full interiors, it speak volumes compared to any board. So life goes on. I do not do this stuff to appease a few on a board here for there. I do it because I love the challenge getting a car to that point and competing...That is what its all about.

BigAl, yeah you find that your never happy. Remember with my 350 being in the 1.6s and seeing guys in the 1.4s. Thought if I could get there life would be splended. However, as humans I don't think we are ever really satisfied.

Fevre

Truely impressive, congrats. How are you locking your t/c? Are you locking it at the line or after 1 st gear? Wanted to experiment with that, also have a vigilante, but did not want to have it blow up on me.

ski_dwn_it

Ferve,

Your going to have to play around with the lockpoint with respect to your setup. I think its best, and this is my take on things...is you want to lock it just as you hit max torque, so that your car can get the max acceleration from the motor. As you know the TC multiplies torque, so there is a benefit from that, however as you travel down the strip, the Torque multiplication fades. If you can find that trasition zone where the multiplication fades, locking it at that point would surely yield best ETs.

Wish I could tell you more, however as you can see from my post, even the manufactures do not know what works the best.

Thanks for the nice comments. I am extremely pleased with the way the car runs and the ETs its getting.

bigals87z28

I gotta try that TC lock up. Which parts of the aldl do you short?

Hawk92z-TDZ

Some cars it just dont help to shift late. I shift at 4400 RPM for my best times, if I hold in till 5000 or 5500 I cant even break into friggin 13's. Shifting at 4400rpm takes me from my peak HP right into my peak TQ. Now when I upgrade from my stock TPI my powerband will shift, so I hope to get several more RPM out of it.

ski_dwn_it them are some sweet times, I wish I could get some traction. My best 60' is like 2.1 most are 2.4-2.6. Time for some Drag Radials.

Fevre

Thanks Ski

I need to hard wire to t/c, right now I have the Accel computer doing it and it locks in 2, 3 and o/d no matter where I have to the shifter. But it also unlocks at higher RPM's so I can't hold it. You idea of locking at the max torq area makes sense. I am going to go to an aftermarket shifter with a buttom on the handle then bypass the computer all together so I have full manual control over the t/c lock up. Keep posting the good info, always llok forward to reading them.

ski_dwn_it

Ferve,

Thanks I enjoy sharing with people that appreciate the entire aspect of performance, not just one facet of it.

If your running your converter totally unlocked, you will without a doubt in my mind see a gain if you lock it. I am still shocked that PI would tell me to leave it unlocked.

As for the warranty etc. If your going to sell to racers, which is basically the only people crazy enough to spend 700 dollars on a converter, and you do not think they will hold up, then do NOT sell racers lockup converters. If they would have told me that upfront I would have just bought a non-lockup like corky's running with great success.

Oh well. That is why I shared this post. Hopefully some can report a gain from locking the converter if they were also mis-informed.

Ed Maher

Easy there killer. PI is quite aware that locking up the converter is worth et/mph. That's why they have been making and selling multi-disc lock-up converters for years now.

You see, the turbo regal guys have been locking up converters since they got hot. Of course, with how easy TRs are to make fast, they began to regualrly eat the TCs just as fast as the junk 2004r trannies. So PI and others started making the multi-disc units that are designed to take that abuse.


Apparently, instead of doing 5 minutes worth of research you instead just bought the converter based on name alone. Or maybe you just had the dealership that installed it order it for you to?

Either way, considering you know you like to lock-up the converter i have no idea why you didn't buy their piece designed for that. Or why you'd sit here and pound your chest like you really think you are smarter then them when you're the one tearing his TCC up hitting it with almost 600lb ft of torque and they're the ones that will gladly take more of your money to replace it because you can't take advice.

ski_dwn_it

You know this is all ****in too much......Now the gosh dang moderators are kickin in on the bashing....what a place! But you watch I will be the one accused of starting sh-it again.

I am TOTALLY aware of the multi disk lockup units OK. This is the same exact converter I used with my modded 350 last year. They told me I would be perfectly fine with the converter. Again this time he said with this motor that was the converter I should be using. So unless you were there on the phone with me talking to him, keep your foot outta your mouth. I then specifically asked him if I should have it converted to a non-lockup he said NO you should just not lock it. When you lock a converter unless your making ungodly power Excess of 600-700 hp then I would recommend a multi-disk.....so I heeded his technical advice, and kept it unlocked for the first run. OBVIOUSLY when you call a place that specialized in a product, pay 200-300 more dollars than your standard run of the mill product, you expect them to give you good sound advice.

I'll tell you what.....next time you have some bone to pick with me.....or anyone else on the board,,,,,take a second to remember your a big old moderator....

Frankly till you bring something to the table as is the same with your buddies...I don't have the time of day for you or for them. Nor am I going to give you a reason to ban me.

So basically all you just did was show your true blue colors. Thanks

Sorry for the rest of you that were making nice comments etc....its sad to see a moderator have to ruin a thread. But we can all look past it.

Vader

Then you might want to clean up your post, and refrain from circumventing the board filters by altering prhibited words and phrases with punctuation. That is one of the posting rules. Just trying to save you some grief.

Additionally, this thread would have been more appropriate on the Racing board, since it isn't TPI-specific.

Incidentally, nice times. If you don't break something metallic first, you'll likely break that 10-second barrier with just a little driving adjustment and tweaking. Even a slight weather change can get you a tenth - you're just that close.

ski_dwn_it

Vader your right....sorry about the swearing...but enough is enough with a few of these guys.

While your right with the maybe it being more appropriate in a specific section. I see lots of posts similar to mine in here. Incidentally I share this stuff to perhaps help someone gain that .05 sec they might be after...but that seems to always get lost in these posts, due to some that feel either threatened, jeolous, or just disappointed with their setups. For the last three I have no time anymore.

Sorry again to you Vader....

As I keep saying, getting a 10sec slip would be nice with this setup, although as I said before I am extremely pleased that I am where I am, so any more is just icing on the cake. If it happens, it happens.

8Mike9

Definitely an appropriate post for TPI...Ski's adventure (as I recall) came about with MAF vs. SD debate. Ski's point is to show/prove the ability of a MAF car and what it's capable of.

I applaud him for sharing all this, as well as his other tips, to show what's best...i/e shift points...TC lockup...all which can gain or lose you .5, as others will attest to. Sure, many would be hungry for the info on the racing forunm, but the TPI crowd with SR's, stock TPI, MR's, etc, can all benefit too.

But in reality, we all know if he'd convert to SD, he'd already be in the 10's

OMINOUS_87

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, board just ate my post.

Kingtal0n

Much respect Ski... very impressive. Thats all ive got to say

OMINOUS_87

So back to it, its time for me to throw in my .02.

Anyway Ski is right at the point where he will benefit from a lockup somtime down the track. Most folks lock their converters manually for 2 reasons.

1. If they run out of gear at the end of the track they will lock it for the last 300rpm-500rpm push to keep the motor in its power band.

2. Right after the 2-3 shift if they if they have enough power to benefit from direct drive in the 1:1 tans gear at the end of the 1/4, if there is not enough power the motor will bog, if the converter is not locked the ET will suffer from the inefficiency of the looser converter.

Its a fine line, not always universally aplicable.

However, Ski, I would not recomend locking the 1-disk unit. Right before I bought my Vigi I had the opportunity to talk in length with a 10.5sec GNX owner, ran in full street trim full power, AC, factory ecm, etc... He claimed to be one of the pioneers of locking Vigi 1-disk units back in the day, he seemed ligit, hence the offering of the 5-disk unit to market. He talked about all kinds of people popping the 1-disk units, some on the first try, said that none of the 1-disk units lasted long though. All he runs now is the Vigi 5-disk.

It would suck to pop the verter and take the tranny down with it, but its your choice. Would be great to get the 10.9xxx asap but I would hate to see the combo hurt in the process.

ski_dwn_it

Ominous_87,

Thanks for the input.

I have been locking this converter for a long time with this combo. Since the begining of the summer. The only reason I tried to run it unlocked at the track this time was because of my conversation with vigilante.

I realize the possibility of the converter failing, but its under warranty as is the tranny But yes you must realize the possibility it could go, and yes take the tranny out with it.

One other thing...maybe its my combo, or something I will address later on in the post, but my RPMs locked verses unlocked remained the same as I went through the traps. Perhaps of the increase in MPH?? Wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference though. As I said there might be another possibility too...that the converter can't hold the power and is still slipping some?? That I guess we will never really know. But if that is happening, I can only imagine its hurting ET, and maybe that is why Corky and I have such different numbers.

I just thought of something. If corky takes apart his engine this week as he alluded to...I would like to try his TCI non-lockup converter and see what it gains me. Hell its only a little time under the car to realize that the vigilante is not any better than a TCI...as corky said....He doesn't like them....thus far I can't argue that as he's kickin my azz in the ET/MPH. His converter is ~2-3 lbs lighter with the vacancy of the clutches.....WIsh I would have insisted on the non-lockup now....OK thats it....my converter is officially up for sale.

People should realize the efficiency of a non-lockup converter is just as good as a lock-up in the locked up state. Its the design of the converter that makes it possible.

OMINOUS_87

No way man, keep the lockup for highway cruise if for nothing else.

Some folks swear that the Yank units are more efficient up in the Rs, but damn 900$, i dont know if its worth the gamble.

Or hell, call Yank and question them, if they preach they will beat a Vigi tell em to make you a deal of sorts, tell em to put their money where their mouth is.

OMINOUS_87

Blah blah blah, send us 900$

http://www.converter.cc/super_stock.htm

http://www.converter.cc/vigilante_3200_dyno.htm

ski_dwn_it

Ominous_87....

Yeah now your talkin..lol.

On the non-lockup....personally it really wouldn't matter too much to me. Not to concerned with gas mileage, as its not a daily driver, but driven often. And my tranny guage all summer long never once even reached 160*....most of the time is down around 130-140*. So little slipping heat could be tolerated, especially if its one less thing to worry about. Not to mention if it gained me ET/MPH...guess that is a no-brainer though.

I too have seen yanks claims.....the money where their mouth is is a good idea....maybe a call to them tomorrow is in order.

PS: On another note the manufacturer of the single plane intake is trying to meet the weeks end deadline to get me the single plane test. If it arrives by weeks end, then I can get it installed/tuned the following week, and track test it. I think about .1-.15 gain is going to be realized. 10.8X- on a this motor in this car would be UNREAL. A few of you might have been waiting for the results....I too can't wait.

novadude

NOT True. You will never, ever have the input speed equal the output speed in a non-lock-up conveter. There will ALWAYS be some slip, and this slip in measured in terms of efficiency.

Just keeping the physics straight for anyone reading this and bying into these claims.

ski_dwn_it

Well please explain Corkvette running the exact same combo as me, with the same exact numbers almost only better with a non-lockup converter?

He is getting 10.92@124...nearly 3 mph better than me, and .1sec quicker.

If time permits this season, I will run his non-lockup in my car....that should tell the tail.

PS there are no claims here...I am just reporting what happened. If you want to refute them, there were about 10 people there that can confirm them, along with ET slips/videos.

TRAXION

Ski,

novadude is correct. A lockup converter in the locked-up state is more efficient than a non-lockup converter. I am talking about the same exact converter - one can lockup and one can't. The lockup will always be more efficient than the non-lockup converter. There must be another reason for those gains. Unless there is a communication problem here with regard to 'efficiency'? I am specifically talking about driveline power loss. That's why the higher hp cars see a gain when locking up the converter ... because they decrease their overall driveline loss. They key, however, is knowing WHEN to lock it up because you'll get an excessive RPM drop which can hurt lower powered setups.

Tim

ski_dwn_it

Bingo...the key here is efficiency....how did the one converter guy I spoke with put it............

98% of the people I talk to that ask about converter efficiency don't know what they are even asking about.

I asked him to humor me and I explained what I "thought" it was....and I actually used the lockup vs non-lockup comparison.

After all was said and done,,,,he said wow, one of the 2%ers.

So while I agree with some of what is being said, I do not agree with others. And instead of getting into another battle on this board I will leave it at that.

Its true if you are talking a lockup converter, when locked is more efficient than in the non-lockup mode. I clearly showed that this past weekend.

But I can assure you this is not ALWAYS true.
"A lockup converter in the locked-up state is more efficient than a non-lockup converter"

Just one little aspect of the whole efficiency scenerio is the fact that most non-lock converter weight 2-3 pounts less due to the absense of the clutch components...what does ridding 2-3 unsprung pounds directly attached to your drivetain gives you?

Pro-built told me the other week when I was talking to him, that he could gain me a few 1/10ths just by removing some of the reverse/overdrive clutches from the tranny. I said...no its still a street car...so how much does a clutch weight in comparison to the clutch in a converter. My guess its a lot less than 2-3 pounds.

Schultzy89GTA

Ski,
Congrats on the times and thanks for sharing your experiences.

-Schultzy

coolcorkvette1

in my research on this i would base everything off of on paper that i read the yank looks to be the best but is the most expensive the vigilante that jesse went with is a little less eficent that he allready had on the big end but is hitting harder down low


now for my tci i allways ran a tci no matter what bad press i heard about them ive been running the for 15 years the converter i pulled out was a box stock 12 inch unit that stalled between 2600-2800 and i got a best 60 out of it a 1.52 or 1.53 last season well anyways i got to talking to one of the head enginneers down at tci about my car and he was very impressed with what it was doing before so i asked him could he get me more bottem end and just not lose no top end which is a hard task for a torque converter well we went back and fourth for a couple of weeks before we setteled on the one i have installed now and he also said if it was too much or not enough he could change it so i said send it out and we installed it at jesses place and thats what is in the car right now it has improve the 60 from a 1.52 to a 1.44 1/8 et from 7.02 to a 6.88 and qtr from a 11.10 to a 10.91 went from 124.5 mph to a 125.31 mph and got better gas mileage to boot it got 22 mpg from a trip from pittsbugh pa to carlisle pa and back total mileage was over 400 miles and that was cruising at 70-75 mph with the ac on

Ed Maher

ski, as with most people i argue with in life, you have a communication problem.

- When i jumped on you for bashing PI, it was because you acted like they didn't know locking the converter made the car faster. Apparently they had a moron manning the phones the day you called if thats what they told you, and if so i apologize. But since PI makes converters designed expressly to be locked up at WOT, it's pretty obvious that the people that are actually making the go fast parts know what they are doing. But you implicated the whole compnay as idiots rather than say you talked to a dumbass tech.

- Now i look at the more recent debate over converter efficiency. You clearly state "People should realize the efficiency of a non-lockup converter is just as good as a lock-up in the locked up state. Its the design of the converter that makes it possible."

A slipping unlocked converter can NEVER EVER be as as efficient as a locked clutch. Only a total moron, or someone attempting to bait a fight would say something so stupid.

Now you are backing down and changing your story. Of course a non-lock up converter can be more efficient than a lock-up converter during non-locked operation. Just like your 4200 vigilante feels tighter than the car you mentioned in another thread about this with ~3500 converter. And just like the converter efficiency graph that was posted here a few spots ago.

So if you understand those concepts, why can't you just say so clearly instead of posting something flat out wrong and then even arguing about it with a couple people instead of just correcting / clarifying yourself directly.

Either way, a 5mph unlocked - unlocked difference would be a pretty big for just a converter difference. You really should try it, if you do find that kind of mph from a converter then a lot of people might start looking sideways at precision.

OMINOUS_87

I can back this up as well. I called with a question or 2 after I bought my Vigi from Thunder Racing, wanted to run a couple questions by PI real fast as Thunder wouldnt commit and answer. The first time I called I talked with a complete monkey, I am surprised he even had a job there. Then called back and got the info right from Terry.

Ed Maher

I guess i just thought it was funny because they so obviously know their stuff even if it isn't the best converter in the world. They can hit about any combo's stall perfectly from what i've seen. My converter does exactly what they said it would stall, and how many of these can they really be building for heavy low geared 305 cars. Same with anybody else i know with one. Thats why everybody always says they wished they went bigger. It's like you expect something extra but don't get it.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ski,

Your not helping me with my internal debate as to chop the firebird and get a '90-92 vette.

-- Joe

ski_dwn_it

Well Ed,

First of all, I was not baiting anyone. I was telling you specifically what I was told from Vigilante...If they have an idiot working for them, then I guess they should be considered idiots for having and idiot represent them.

If you think that a non-lockup converter can't be more efficient than a lockup, then sorry.

Also I was pointing out to people. Based on Corky's performance (but who bases anything on that here...that would be unheard of ) there might not be a need to spend $900 on a converter. Corky's converter is kickin the crap out of my 700+ dollar one.. in 60' times, in 1/4 mile ET and MPH.

But I understand its less efficient....

Just as you have found in life, I have found some things out around here about a few...like yourself.

They blindly accuse people of things, not realizing that they themselves are guilty of exactly the same thing.

(1) Starting an argument in a post that is going fine....

(2) Call of names......(real mature) please see aboves post "total moron"

(3) Love to speek about stuff without having any hard proof of claims. Dyno, ET slips, logs, videos, etc are all unheard of. But rather 100% based on one persons point of view.

Shall I continue? I hope not as any time conversing with you...is viewed as a total waste of my time.
........................................................................................


Joe,

You will love the Vette. Go for it, there is no comparison!
I know of an awesome one on the vetteforum. A buddy with a 383/SR/Acell DFI/Lingenfelter motor, built and installed by them. Its in mint conditioin, admiral blue , he seldomly races it, but he ran it this past weekend on street tires, it went flat 12s@119MPH.

If you interested hits jay383 on the vette forum..Tell him I sent you! Pretty sure its a 90...wants around 20K, but he might have moved that figure since the last time I spoke with him.

Good luck!

Ed Maher

You're putting words in my mouth, and everybody elses mouth that you are argued the point with. Re-read what you said about a locked converter being less efficient than an un-locked converter.

Just because corky's car is faster than yours doesn't mean you can reinvent physics. What you said was either an honest mistake, or you have no idea what you are talking about. NOONE is saying that a non-lock up converter can't be more efficient than a lock-up design WHILE IT IS IN THE UNLOCKED STATE. So if thats what you meant to say, then great, we all agree. If you think a locked clutch is less efficient than a fluid coupling, go back to high school.

Rather than just admit you were wrong in your first statement and letting it drop, instead you'd rather ASSume that i and others don't understand the concept of converter efficiency. Noone is disagreeing that corky's converter might be better than your vig.

I'm not ASSuming anything anymore in this post, thats why i said either / or. As for a clutch being more efficient than a fluid coupling, that isn't an opinion, it's simple fact, NO experiment can prove otherwise.

ski_dwn_it

Thanks Ed for your input

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Damn guys! 10's or close to with 22 mpg !!

How good are you and Cork tuning speed density systems??


Congrats on the timeslips!

ski_dwn_it

Cork is not into the tuning, via computers that is, I do the tuning and could tell you, but it would be against the rules here

TunedPortTerror

Rules were made to be broken!

coolcorkvette1

i use a box stock formato chip and tune by ways of a narrow band o2s that a lot of people on this board and other boards do not have a lot of confident in but it works for me and every car i tune this way so what gives the best way to tune a speed density car will need to be hooked up to some kind of scanner for input

coolcorkvette1

if we ever max out these mas air meters and have to change over to speed density i have alot of confidence that jesse can get us in tune with the speed density system also

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Well, I'm trying hard to break into the 11's like Jesse is trying to break into the 10's. You guys are leagues faster than mine right now! It would take a charger or a decent pill to get mine into the 10's !!

Congrats!

camarojoe

If that's the case, I'll be taking a road trip in the next month. The short block is almost built now, and my engine is going to be in the car within a week at the latest.

TRAXION

What? Ok - if you are trying so hard to break into the 11's then report your times. AFAIK you said you haven't been to the track or the dyno. NOW you are saying that you're trying hard to break into the 11's? Jesse goes to the track all the time .... that's the only way to try. Somehow I get the feeling that this just another 'free post' for you. I'm surprised that you didn't attach a picture of your car like you do on all the other free posts you make.



Tim

ski_dwn_it

I must have missed something along the way.

Anyways, Trax is really right with track testing. And I guess that is what bugs me so much with other methods of determining success in either mods or tuning. We (Cork and I) not only use the track for measuring, but also gage off one anothers cars. If I mod like I did my converter last week, we go to the track, he have not only my past runs, but also his to compare to. If he makes gains with no other mods/adjustments, that much is decucted off my gains to the net is what that mod got me. Like my TC I nearly gained an entire .1 sec, however comparing the two, with weather , it really only netted .06 sec. In other words I would have seen that .04 sec anyways, just because of the weather. I feel oour methods of comparing are VERY accurate, and I guess that is why I argue when people claim gains/improvements/techniques etc and do not ever include ETs etc, well anything could be responsible for the gains....even a heavy tailwind. Last weekend we had a HUGE headwind. So maybe the converter would have gained more, but we can only say what it actually did. For me getting to the track is not at all easy or conveniant. Its 3+ hours each way when I go....but that is the ONLY way to test changes you make.

On a side note my single plane intake will be here by next week! Sure would like to see this SR combo squeek out a 10sec run this weekend, However it looks like the weather is going to be much warmer than normal, so I will probably run a little slower.