I recently purchased a set of TPIS runners along with their BigMouth Intake.....and I got a new catalog with it. I was browsing through it and saw the mini-ram intake....for $895?? Im really pissed because I paid $950 for my runners and intake.....and I could have got that cheaper??? I wanted to keep the stock appearance for my TPI motor....especially when the blower goes on.....but I talked to the guy at TPIS and he will let me exchange the runners/intake for the mini-ram....but I have to buy the fuel rail. Do I need the fuel rail?? Or can you make the stock one work????? Man I dont know which way to go now....

 

You will need to buy the fuel rails for a MR. the stock tpi ones will not work that I know of.

 

I found this info and I figured you guys might like to look it over, now the first thing I want to point out is where the DATA came from. and KEEP IN MIND ITS REAR WHEEL HP AND The TPI INTAKE IN THE TEST consists of 58mm TB, fully ported plenum, AS&M large tube runners, and highly ported Edelbrock base WHICH MEANS ITS ALREADY MAKING AT LEAST 25HP-30HP MORE THAN A STOCK TPI INTAKE) http://store.yahoo.com/azspeed/19latuinru1.html (runners $395)
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...65&prmenbr=361 (base $366total still needing extensive port work and your plenum=$761

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/winter01/dyno/

The engine was basically the same,in all the test except for the intake manifold, consisting of a ZZ4 crate motor, AFR190 heads, LT4 HOT cam, and SLP 1-3/4" SS headers. Trans is a 700r4 with a Vigilante 2800 stall converter. The Engine Control Module (ECM) was a '92 TPI stock ECM (MAP/speed-density) with a modified EPROM.

I HAVE GONE TRU AND WILL PICKED OUT THE IMPORTANT POINTS TO SAVE YOU TIME IN THE CHARTs AND GRAPHS ON THE SITE

TPI engine.....283 PEAK rwhp @4800rpm peak
AVG. TQ 291.5
AVG HP 269.5



miniram
http://www.moreperformanceinc.com/miniram.htm
cost about $1250
303 PEAK rwhp @6200rpm peak
AVG. TQ 285.8
AVG HP 269.1
IT LOST 29 HP at 3800 rpm and MADE 48 MORE HP THAN THE extensively ported large runner TPI
at 6300 RPM


stealth ram
342 PEAK rwhp @6400rpm
AVG. TQ 319
AVG HP 300 it lost 28 hp at 3600 rpm BUT GAINED 66 HP AT 6600 RPM
over the extensively ported large runner TPI
342 rear wheel hp is approximately equal to 427 flywheel HP FROM A 350 SBC ENGINE, figuring a 20% driveline loss rate.
and 342 rear wheel hp is 97 hp more HP at the rear wheels than the stock engine was rated at!!!

the use of a longer duration cam and only measureing PEAK HP would tend to benefit the miniram and STEALTH RAM intakes to a MUCH GREATER extent than the TPI, THATS HOW claims of gains of 100hp are made for some intake combos, while its TRUE that you can make in excess of a HUNDRED EXTRA hp at 6600rpms is due more to the TPI not being able to flow air (LOSSES) keep in mind that a LARGER ENGINE DISPLACEMENT WOULD BENEFIT EVEN MORE from the steathram

link to c-4 stealthram

 

I know how much better the Stealth Ram is over TPI, as well as the Mini-Ram. Im not too much worried about the natural Hp-Tq numbers because the engine will be forced induction. You make a couple good points about all three intakes...and all have their good and bads. I dont like the stealth ram because of losing torque at a very streetable 3600rpm. Now you have to admit....gaining torque above 6krpm isnt gonna help you much on the street. Plus, the Hotcam is WAY too much cam for a TPI setup(naturally aspirated anyway). Put a short duration high lift on a 110lsa and have it tuned....it will be much better. Im much more interested in average hp/tq....not the peaks. I mean, how often do you actually drive around at 6600rpm??? You shouldnt have to if your engine makes enough low grunt...or at least that's why I think. I was just pissed because I could have went ahead and bought the entire MiniRam setup for what I paid for the runners/intake. Thats not counting the plenum being CNC machined either

 

The hot-cam is WAY too much cam for a TPI?????

My cam is BIGGER than the hot-cam and makes more power than the hot-cam and my motor is a Naturally Aspirated TPI. The hot cam is not a big cam.

 

"The hot cam is not a big cam"TRUE even by chevys own cam list the HOT cam is mild

heres a CRANE cam chevy sells and its listed in there performance catalog

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1993&pid=29927
KYL98
your coments DON,T apply to a supercharged engine, in fact a stealth ram with its much straiter runners and less restriction would produce MORE low and mid range torque on a SUPERCHARGED ENGINEand MUCH more that even a PORTED TPI in the higher rpm ranges due to the lower air flow restriction.

 

I should clarify...a mostly stock TPI. Yours has been modified extensively. I myself think it puts the powerband too high for a "stock" TPI setup.

 

Anything above 5500 and you're asking for pistons in the face.

 

See, that's what Im saying...I dont want to rev it to the moon. I think we got a little off the subject about the cam and all......I know that technically a Stealth Ram and MiniRam BOTH make more power than even a modded TPI.....NATURALLY aspirated. When you start using forced induction.....from what Ive learned and been told....all the flow characteristics of an intake manifold change because the engine is no longer sucking for air(vacuum)...the air is being compressed and forced into the combustion chamber....at least thats ATI's thinking. I might go ahead and get the Mini Ram to see.....maybe Im wrong

 

How does gaining torque at higher RPMs NOT help you on the street? If anything it is MORE useable in a street car because you don't have the traction (or slicks) that you do at the track.
As long as you can spin the tires easily then you have more power than you need at that given RPM.
Of course you don't drive around casually at 6600 RPMs but you don't drive around casually at 5500 RPMs either. The only time most do is when they are racing someone.
I have tons of low/mid range torque but I can't hook up on the street so it's not much good to me

 

What kind of traction mods do you have??? I had a 90Z28 with a 415hp(@the wheels) 385ci. I had NO problems on the street with traction. The motor had close to 500 ft lbs of tq also. I had extensive mods to the suspension including a BMR trak-pak, LCA's, air bag setup..etc etc etc. ITs all in what goes into the suspension. TOO much torque is not good either....it's a balance game I understand....you want more torque, you usually trade higher HP. But, Ive seen first hand a 69 Nova(FULL body...no fiberglass) with a 406 TPI running in the 10's(ATI blown of course).....and he maxes out at HP around 5000rpm....Thats the point I was trying to make...why wind the crap out of it if you dont have to??? I always thought a good drag run was the measure of trap speed(mph). The elapsed time is only a representation of driver ability and AVAILABLE HP at the time. If you run your ENTIRE run at 6500rpm I could see......but lets face it...the majority of cars never see that....not on a daily basis. I just basically was interested in the MiniRam intake because of its size...with it being shorter I can build a custom "ram-air" cowl induction intake for the blower.......If I wasnt worried about that, Id just keep the TPI...

 

took my car to the track both these are on 120 n2o
befoe shifting at 4800 rpm
before with the siamesed SLP runners and Edelbrock base.

60ft - 1.815
1/4 mile - 12.493 @ 109.02

only swapped to the HSR nothing else. shifting at 5600 rpm now.
60ft - 1.855
1/4 mile - 12.145 @ 109.21

not much change on the low end. but lots gain on the mid to upper rpms as evidence of the .3 quicker but not much mph change.

NA

before
60ft - 1.90
1/4 mile 13.73 @ 98.98

after
60ft - 1.996
1/4 mile 13.630 @ 100.62

a tenth quicker and 2 mph faster. i don't see much of a loss going with a HSR.

 

Whaaaaaaaat?????????

Anyways.... Minirams rule. It has been proven over and over again. And I see little to no reference in this thread as to how broad the power band is with the various intake setups - let alone anything about matching the various intake setups with a cam that lets them shine.... AND even less about tuning, heads, etc......

People!!!! - engines are a package and you can't swap just an intake and expect to prove jack $hit. Everything works together as a system...

 

Thank you...thats what Ive been trying to say

 

In the same vain, a properly tuned & matched Mini Ram or HSR combo will not lose low end torque. The only ones I have seen that do, try to throw one of these manifolds on a basically stock engine with no tuning & then cry they lost low end power.

 

The only traction mods I have are LCAs. This was my daily driver at one time and originally I wanted better handling. I haven't decided if I'm going to set it up more for the strip or not. It currently has Eibach Pros and KYB shocks/struts
Trap speeds are a good indicator of HP. ETs are an indicator of torque only if you are able to put it to the ground
I should be putting out around 320RWHP and 400RWTQ now and can break traction up to about 45MPH on dry roads.

 

KYL98,
I am curious, if this intake is going to be for the 377 you have in the works, now or eventually? If so and it is the typical 400 block/ 350 crank combo, what is the sense of building it unless you are going to rev the **** out of it?

Are you saying that you are taking a 400 block, taking away its lower end torque potential by putting a 350 crank in it, and then going with a long tube runner intake to gain it back?

 

I thought a 377 was a 350 with a 400 crank that's NOT bored out. A 383 it bored out .030 and a 388 is bored out .060, or am I wrong? Also, what kind of blower can you use with TPI?

 

Typical 377ci are 400 blocks(.030 over) with 350 crank. If you didnt bore this combo you would yeild a 372ci.

A typical 383 is a 350 block(.030 over) and a 400 crank. If you didnt bore this combo you would get a 377ci(your correct).....

You dont want to get into an argument on which way is the better. cough..cough...Bigger bore...longer rods...shorter stroke...more RPM.....Huh?? What??

 

Grumpyvette, you are misleading quite a few people with this info that's been on the net, mainly 3rdgen, for years. The first two tests (ported runners and MRam) were done with the stock ZZ4 heads. After Mike swapped the AFR heads on the TPI runner combo he gained about 25hp and tq across the board. He never tested the hot cam setup with the MR and AFR's. If he did it would easily show more than the 342rwhp that he got with the Stealthram. JFEI. The Stealthram is the best comprimise between a tq intake (TPI) and a hi-flow intake (MR). If you're looking for all out HP, look no further than the MR. Of course you need to have a hell of a lot bigger cam than the hot cam to make peak hp on a 350.

 

Yes Im taking a 400 block with a 350 crank...bored .030. A 377 does NOT lose any low end torque. It actually gains some...at around 2500rpm. All the ones I have seen built do anyway....but thats with a carb. I see what youre saying about not revving me. Maybe I explained it wrong. It will see high rpms SOMEtimes, just not EVERY time. I just didnt see the point of a mini-ram or stealth ram if the motor was going to be blown. I like the power curve of the TPI better. But hell, live and learn right? Maybe I wont like it after its built.....who knows...

 

As you stated above, but thats with a carb. I think that may be why you have seen the dyno info like that. If it were mine, (only because I wound not build a 377 unless I was going to absolutely **** it out into the high RPMs) and especially if it was going to be blown, I would definitely give the miniram a shot. Most people would say the blower alone should give you all the TQ and HP you need, but combine that with the upper RPM HP potential of the miniram, that would be one hell of a screaming beast.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do!
Tony

 

UPDATE....


I decided to exchange my big tube runners/intake at TPIS for the MiniRam intake...and purchased the fuel rail. I received it saturday morning....and its now on top of the engine. I "should" have the motor running by this weekend, depending on how work goes this week. I did ALOT of research and did alot of contacting with ATI and made the decision to go with the MiniRam. I think what really turned me into a MiniRam lover is the fact that the D1SC blower I have makes more power in the higher rpm range. The only thing Ill really have to change is the cam......need a little bit more duration. I will post pics as soon as I get my hands on a digital cam, or take some pics and have them developed. Thanks for all the help fellows.......

 

Good choice on the MR, you'll definitely see more gains now with your blower.

 

Good news, I am happy you changed your mind!
Now it sounds like you are going to have one seriously mean engine combo as long as your heads and headers match the rest of it!