Was thinkin of what it would take to creat a super ram out of a stock tpi manifold. Let me know where the weak points are:

Upper plenum:

Make two alum 'boxes' to bolt to where the stock runners go, open up the area between the the two stock runner exits to creat one large exit then bolt the 'boxes' to the stock bolt holes (might need to make the outer end of the box removable if you want to make the boxes larger and then located the bolts on the inside of the box and still have access to them), then cut the stock runners in half and weld/bond them to the bottom boxes. You would then need to drill holes in the bottom of the box to open it up for flow through the runners. Now you would need to do this in an order to allow all the things be done, for instance you can't seal up the box untill the runners are welded/bonded and the box is drilled for flow but I think you get the gist.

Lower plenum:

Hog it out like others have done to increase flow.


By doing this you have created a super ram for little money and some hours of work. Only thing I am unsure of is the flow through the stock runners and the flow beyond the hogged area in the base but think by hogging out the base you decrease the need for large diameter runners.

Constructive critcism is welcome, attacks can be internalized.

 

Didn't someone do this already? I think they added a plexiglass top too.

 

Hope some replys that has a link to the thread, would like to read the results. Could not find it using the search function.

 

since I SPENT YEARS RESEARCHING THIS SUBJECT! LET ME POINT OUT A FEW THINGS
(1) heres the flow numbers
(2)no matter WHAT PLENUM DESIGN YOU USE,your MAX AIRFLOW WILL BE LIMITED TO THE MOST RESTRICTIVE OF THE TWO,(RUNNERS OR BASE INTAKE) that YOU PUT IT ON and THATS THESE FLOW NUMBERS FROM MATCHED INTAKE AND RUNNERS

Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock....................198.72 cfm
ACCEL................213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....217.11 cfm
Super Ram............220.67 cfm



the stock TPI has a hard time flowing 230cfm even with minor port work, look here
most of this info is right off the accel,holley,edelbrock, and TPIS sites, add a little math and the results become much clearer!!!
GETTING YOUR Intake....... length ....... port in -- out
Stock GM Base--- 6.375"------ 1.47"- 1.96x1.2
TPiS base------ -6.125"------ 1.75"- 2.09x1.28
Accel base----- -6.125"------ 1.75"- 2.09x1.28
Holley base------- 6” runner 2.3”- 1.9”x 1.23 (2.337 sq inches)
Runners
Stock TPI----- -- 7.250"------1.470" round(1.70 sq inchs)
SLP ----------- - 6.625"------1.600" round (2.01 sq inchs)
Accel LTR------- 6.625"------1.615" round (2.05 sq inchs)
TPiS----------- 7.625"------1.660" round (2.168 sq inchs)
Mini ram -----3.5”
LT1 ----------3”
Runners (measured individually)
Stock....................203.17 cfm
ACCEL................242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL...275.83 cfm
Super Ram............289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused intlet
.............................222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram ………..275cfm
Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock....................198.72 cfm
ACCEL................213.52 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....217.11 cfm
Super Ram............220.67 cfm
Holley stealth ram …..275cfm

ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with 3/8 inch
radiused inlet.........251.51 cfm
ACCEL Hi-Flow intake manifold with runner
Stock....................215.83 cfm
ACCEL................232.53 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL....243.21 cfm
Super Ram............240.24 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake
manifold with 3/8 inch radiused inlet
............................275.83 cfm
Extrude-Honed ACCEL Hi-Flow intake
manifold with ACCEL runner
............................266.94 cfm
Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold
(Stock)..................286.51 cfm
Edelbrock Victor Jr.
.............................275.24 cfm

HOLLEY STEALTH RAM
[b]the HOLLEY STEALTH RAM FLOWS at 275cfm out of the box, and has the potential when matched to the correct heads and cam to totally out flow most other intakes available,can easily reach 300cfm with minor port work and costs much less
Stock…………………………… 275cfm
Ported…………………………..300cfm
Runner lengths
Stock tpi manifold 8” runners 11.25”, cylinder head 6” total 25.25”
Accel super ram manifold 8” runners 7” cylinder head 6” total 21”
Holley stealth ram manifold 6.26” ” cylinder head 6” total 12.26”
Edelbrock performer RPM runners 6” ” cylinder head 6” total 12”
Edelbrock vic jr , runner length 5.5” ” ” cylinder head 6” total 11.5”

take the time to read the links
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...holleystealth/

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...age021105.html

GAINS OF 60hp PLUS have been reported on mildly reworked engines and Im sure on a full race style, or engine designed to use the extra air flow engine the results would be far greater

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...19&prmenbr=361
compare that to a super ram at $1370 plus
flows about 240cfm to 275cfm with SERIOUS port work

http://www.thunderracing.com/index.c...yid=1125#P2944[/url]
HOLLEY STEALTH RAM (intake ,plenum,fuelrails, regulator)
about $460-$520 to convert your TPI plus cost of small base HEI ignition and small parts
flows 275cfm-300cfm with port work


[b] http://www.fasterdeals.com/garageindex.html]custom height stealthram to fit under corvette hoods,LINK [b]


when you look at the choices the upgrade to the HOLLEY STEALTH RAM GIVES YOU THE MOST FOR YOUR MONEY, just like a 4 barrel carb potentially out powers a 2 barrel carb on the engine years ago its the increased airflow potential of the newer EFI intakes that limits to a great extent the power your engine can make now, your ECU matches the fuel to the ENGINES AIR FLOW AND IT THE EFFECTIVELY USED AND AVAILABLE AIRFLOW THRU THE ENGINE THAT MAKES POWER

 

Id say it would be possible, but you run the risk of creating some serious vacuum leaks. Im not sure if itd be worth the effort anyway, like grumpyvette said your plenum can flow a million cfm, but if the base doesnt, your engine wont make power. I dont think the stock base has enough material for too much porting anyway...

 

These numbers seem to contridict your opening statement about being limited by most restictive of the two. The stock runners flow only 203.17cfm but when mated to the accel Hi-flow base it shows a flow rate of 215.83. I might be reading it wrong.

If I am not mistaken the biggest 'complaint' of the stock tpi system is the length of the runners and I would be cutting them in half. I agree the HSR would be the easiest (and probably the best) route but I was just curious as to what you could do with a sheet of alum and some time.

 

theres no contradiction at all ,look closely, this FLOW DATA WAS TAKEN and compiled from several differant flow benchs so the data differs very slightly but REMAINS VERY CONSISTANT ,what it says is that the runners by themselfs flow better than the runners when attached to the manifold base and that the ACCELL RUNNERS AND BASE OUT FLOW THE STOCK RUNNERS AND BASE INTAKES WHEN THEY ARE COMBINED
when I had a stock untouched TPI flow tested several years ago the flow from the ports measured with the throttle body mounted on the TPI was under 180cfm per port.

Runners (measured individually) WITHOUT INTAKE
Stock....................203.17 cfm
ACCEL................242.02 cfm

Stock intake manifold with runner
Stock....................198.72 cfm
ACCEL................213.52 cfm

the bottom line is that the TPI is HIGHLY RESTRICTED and EVEN THE HIGH FLOW BASE AND INTAKES AVAILABLE WHILE VERY HELPFUL, REMAIN VERY RESTRICTIVE. the STEALTH RAM IS FAR LESS RESTRICTIVE

 

Here are my thoughts on this... My motor is an ide-5500-6000 motor. I have the SuperRam now (Ported), Ive thought about swapping for a Stealthram. But I just dont see where anything would be gained for me. I dont race this car, although I would like to see what kinda power its making when IM done with it. If that ever happens. I just enjoy it on the street mostly.

Increasing power for the last 500-1000 rpm of my usable rpm range. BUT, losing power everywhere else. Mostly in the 2000-5000 range, Not to mention throttle responce. What am I gaining really?

Would the stealthram be worth the swap on my idle-5500 motor?

 

MikeH
ENGINES ARE A COMBO OF PARTS THAT MUST MATCH AS TO THE INTENDED RPM AND POWER RANGE TO WORK EFFECTIVELY,
if your not going over 5500rpm and your keeping the 2.87-3.07 rear gears your best off keeping the super ram you have now and getting it ported and extrude honed for max flow!

I ran both intakes on my corvette while testing, the super ram when ported correctly makes good power in the 3000rpm-5500rpm range when its matched to a good cam and after it has been ported

btw heres a cam that worked well

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/...00230&x=14&y=1

the only real problems I had with the super ram WHILE TESTING ON MY CORVETTE an several other corvettes for that matter was that it was a TOTAL P.I.T.A. to install and IT COST a GREAT DEAL, THE STEALTH RAM is FAR EASIER TO INSTALL AND COSTS A GOOD DEAL LESS AND MADE MORE HP, BUT ONLY OVER 5000rpm and the STEALTH RAM tended to like a slightly wilder cam and stiffer rear gears , with those changes the car became noticably faster with the stealth ram

btw the stealth ram worked just fine with all the cams tested, but heres two that work exceptionally well

http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/...0471&x=21&y=16

http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/D...1=Display+Card


for those of you with DD-2000 enter the data for the SUPER RAM as (tuned port intake) and the STEALTH RAM as (TUNNEL RAM) and play with those cam specs, while the exact hp/tq numbers may not be exact the trends are remarkably close. remember to only look at the data within the intakes effective rpm ranges also, the stealth ram tends to show good flow up to about 6500rpm while the super ram tends to start falling off by 5300-5500rpm if the testing I did is typical

 

grumpy, what rpm are you peaking at? Ive already got an HSR on right now and 200cc ProToplines ready to go on. The gears are 3.45s. I was looking at a cam much milder than the ones you mentioned, (224/230, .502/.510, 112LSA) but I dont plan on revving past 6K on the stock bottom end. Do you have any input on whether this cam may be too small? Thanks.

 

Well hell great the Stealthram is good done. Can we stick to the subject though since its an interesting topic.

 

about 6400rpm
that cam sounds like it will work just fine with that combo! the differance will only be about 700rpm in where the peak power curve starts to build and drop off and about 25hp according to my computer progams

 

OK getting back to the main topic,
since the base intake is a large restriction, you have several options, since most of us don,t have the available resources to cast our own intakes we are more or less stuck modifiying the available production intakes.
now if you don,t like the TPI intakes restriction, and you realize that even fully ported its not going to be all that much better you have two fairly easy routes, you can modify a single plane intake like the EDELBROCK super vic and add a 4 barrel throttle body to get something like this



HOLLEY OFFERS THIS INTAKE ALREADY DESIGNED FOR EFI, OR YOU CAN BUY A SUPER VIC AND HAVE IT CONVERTED,MOST PLACES CHARGE AT LEAST $350 for the conversion (JUST FUEL RAILS AND INJECTOR BUNGS)PLUS THE $200 FOR THE SUPER VIC ITSELF


Part #: 9901-101-1
Fuel Rail Kit available. Order Holley P/N 9900-172
summit price for the intake, $289.99 fuel rails,$206.99
9900-171 $647.99
total about $1150 plus shipping, linkage, trans brackets ETC, and youll need to use your old injectors and sensors and don,t forget a new air filter assembly

msd makes a somewhat similar throttle body #2250 $ 413.69

but either way its about $900-$1200 without injectors MINIMUM
which is not real bad but its more than the custom stealth ram at $775

OR you can get extensive work done to some other intake, but keep in mind that direct line of site into the cylinder heads is almost mandatory if the injectors are not mounted just outside the cylinder head intake ports

HERES ANOTHER OPTION BUT BE PREPARED TO PAY $4500-$6600

 

I made the switch from a SuperRam to a MiniRam on my 383. I found the MiniRam power band to be very balanced. My best ET with the SuperRam was 12.00@113. Switching to the MiniRam I was able to run 11.88@115. Further tuning along with a larger cam netted 11.60@118.
The main reason for switching to the MR was installation. I had the SR intake on and off about 5 or 6 times and it is a PITA to install. I would never make the switch back to a SR. The MR has it all over the SR!

www.geocities.com\dzperf

 

I found this info and I figured you guys might like to look it over, now the first thing I want to point out is where the DATA came from. and KEEP IN MIND ITS REAR WHEEL HP AND The TPI INTAKE IN THE TEST consists of 58mm TB, fully ported plenum, AS&M large tube runners, and highly ported Edelbrock base WHICH MEANS ITS ALREADY MAKING AT LEAST 25HP-30HP MORE THAN A STOCK TPI INTAKE)


http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/winter01/dyno/

The engine was basically the same,in all the test except for the intake manifold, consisting of a ZZ4 crate motor, AFR190 heads, LT4 HOT cam, and SLP 1-3/4" SS headers. Trans is a 700r4 with a Vigilante 2800 stall converter. The Engine Control Module (ECM) was a '92 TPI stock ECM (MAP/speed-density) with a modified EPROM.

I HAVE GONE TRU AND WILL PICKED OUT THE IMPORTANT POINTS TO SAVE YOU TIME IN THE CHARTs AND GRAPHS ON THE SITE

TPI engine.....283 PEAK rwhp @4800rpm peak
AVG. TQ 291.5
AVG HP 269.5
(the stock engine is rated at 245hp)


miniram
303 PEAK rwhp @6200rpm peak
AVG. TQ 285.8
AVG HP 269.1
IT LOST 29 HP at 3800 rpm and MADE 48 MORE PEAK HP THAN THE extensively ported large runner TPI
at 6300 RPM


stealth ram
342 PEAK rwhp @6400rpm
AVG. TQ 319
AVG HP 300 it lost 28 hp at 3600 rpm BUT GAINED 66 HP AT 6600 RPM
over the extensively ported large runner TPI
342 rear wheel hp is approximately equal to 427 flywheel HP FROM A 350 SBC ENGINE, figuring a 20% driveline loss rate.
and 342 rear wheel hp is 97 hp more HP at the rear wheels than the 245HP the stock engine was rated at!!!

the use of a longer duration cam and only measureing PEAK HP would tend to benefit the miniram and STEALTH RAM intakes to a MUCH GREATER extent than the TPI, THATS HOW claims of gains of 100hp are made for some intake combos, while its TRUE that you can make in excess of a HUNDRED EXTRA hp at 6600rpms is due more to the TPI not being able to flow air (LOSSES) keep in mind that a LARGER ENGINE DISPLACEMENT WOULD BENEFIT EVEN MORE from the steathram

link to c-4 stealthram

you might want to look over this dyno info too,

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...holleystealth/