This is what he gave me as far as cams.........he told me that with my 273 gears the cam to get is........ he also told me to STAY away from 1.6 rockers that if I was going to get any I should get 1.52 roller rockers............... he told me that the cam would still work good even if I added a higher stall and higher gears later on down the road.....he said the cam is good for an additional 20hp....is that all?

Part Number 08-409-8
Engine -present Chevrolet
305ci-350ci
8cyl.
Grind Number CS X4 258HR-11
Description

Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.458 0.458
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 258 262

Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 22 56
Exhaust 61 11

These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 107 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 206 210
Lobe Lift 0.305 0.305
Lobe Separation 111

Recommended Valve Springs 981-16




SO what you guys think about his info?

Good or bad?

 

Sounds like a really good cam for TPI, but I would recommend something with a little higher LSA like 112 or more. Although I think 111LSA would be fine.

Everything else looks good though.

 

THis is what he said to get if I was to have a 3.42 or 3.73 gear....
Part Number 08-501-8
Engine -present Chevrolet
305ci-350ci
8cyl.
Grind Number CS XR264HR-12
Description

Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.488 0.495
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 264 269

Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 24 60
Exhaust 70 18

These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 108 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 212 218
Lobe Lift 0.325 0.33
Lobe Separation 112

Recommended Valve Springs 986-16







So which should I get?

 

Dude...post the rest of the combo...an engine is a SYSTEM...all the components should match...

You didn't even post how many cubes you have...

 

Whoops sorry I thought I had my sig on..


mods are in the sig...my newer mod is headers which havent been installed yet...


I called Comp back and spoke with a different guy and he recommended the 08-501-8 cam above....he said that with the 273 gear that I have I will lose some low end but would get it all back once I went to 3.42 gears...He aid that with the LSA 111 the computer wouldnt work to well...they all have a different opinion on CAMS.....HE also said to stay away from 1.6 rockers...just to get 1.52 ROLLERS....also the prices were CRaZY!,,,,high!

 

Why just the cam? Are you rebuilding the engine or something?

What about changing the valvesprings?

 

well, I dont have alot of money.......the car in sitting on jack stand in my garage...I had decided to put headers on it and while I was at it I would fix the leaking water pump....so I figured since I was more than 75% there, I would change my PEANUT CAM for a better one. .....Im actually trying to do this as cheap as possible......I want to just slide my old cam out and put the new one in...they said I can reuse my roller lifters if they look fine...and the rockers would be a simple change......then I want to put it all back together and be back on the road...


Everything is off the motor...the front accessories are removed....I just need to remove the timing cover and the intake....
So I figure I would do the following..

CAM
headers
underdrive pullies
water pump

and be done and put it back...then if I want more just throw the bottle at it...


I just want to do the CAM 1 time.....

 

Well...since the stock heads have ****ty valve springs and pressed in studs...go with the smaller cam...if you are doing some head work, go with the bigger cam...

The problem is you only want to do it once...the RIGHT way...which would mean going with the bigger cam and correcting the above head issues...or even better heads...

Good luck...

 

Wishmaster, please wait to do the cam swap until you have the dough for some sort of head upgrade. I promise you'll be much happier if you just save up and do everything at once or the in other words do it the right way. A new cam just won't do you much good with stock heads and a tpi on top. You may get 20hp but you really won't feel it, which would probably be a let down. Save up and plan your part selection carefully, and research!

 

i just talked to comp cams
now i asked the guy what would be the best cam for my 1986 305 tpi trans am, he asked what gears i had and also what chip i was going to use, i told him i had 3.42 gears ,he recomended the comp extreme energy cam , 212 218 449 456 112 lsa, now you said that it was only good for 20 horses, i don't think so , loolk at the 85 305 tpi cars , they ran 15.00 flat with 3.42 in there, where does my ****ty cam putting me 16.00 , so i think the cam that comp recomended would be more like 40-45 hp gain

 

Dude...you can call the same cam company 3 times in 2 weeks and get 3 different (but close) answers on the "right" cam for you...ask me how I know that...

So...what are you going to do about YOUR heads, valve springs/press in studs? Just curious...

 

Well then what about all these people on here doing a cam upgrade and making some good power without touching the heads? or valve spring/studs?

 

I don't know who you are referencing...but the fact remains that the stock cam has a low lift too it...hence the crappy valve springs...and press-in studs can problems with lift...these problems have been around forever with stock SBC heads

Same problem with STOCK vortec heads..at least the worthless valve springs...

In the end...you do what you want to...if you feel better slapping in a cam with the stock TPI intake and untouched heads...good luck...not to mention no chip tuning, there are gains to be had there.

 

I agree with 88TPI406GTA 100%. He obviously knows what he's talking about, the guy's got a 406 for goodness sakes. LOL

 

Its no 305...but I get by...

Seriously...in the 1st incarnation of my 406, with stock heads and a mild cam...I had the valve spring problem...because I used stock (used, but good springs that the machine shop tested) valve springs and I had cam issues, I was disappointed...and I have never had a valve stud pull out on me...because I have screw-in studs on the heads that I have used...unless the engine is in completely stock form...

I also had a 78 z28 with a 350 that I bought with a hotter than stock cam (unknown specs) that had some issues up top...after tuning the carb and making sure the ignition was ok...the only two things I could come up with were valve springs or possible bad cam...I sold the car cause I was only 18 and didn't have the knowledge I do now...

Some things aren't worth the hassle if they break...

 

I agree about the valve springs often being overlooked on many cars here on the boards. I got the spring upgrade good for .600 lift on my AFR's, but the reps said that I should still stay a good bit under that on my cam lift. It makes me wonder if I just should've bought a set of Comp springs, since I'm getting one of their cust. cams in a month or so. Have you ran your 406 by chance? I'm seriously considering trying to find a 400 although I've already purchased a set of Wisecos for my 383.

 

I don't have it running yet with these heads and the stealth ram...I just pulled it last week and hope to have it back on the road within the month...

Too much going on these days...

 

Just remember, you can't go more than @.470" lift without valve guide/seat interference on a stock SBC head. So, if you don't plan to take the heads off, to get them modified, do not use the bigger cam!

And you'll probably gain nothing by changing the cam and using the stock springs, they are way too weak to benefit anything bigger than the stock cam. New springs are crucial.

It will be a total dissapointment if you don't do it right.

 

How much do springs cost and what kind should I get and how hard are they to put on?

 

centaur
reading your post here ,
i plan on doing a cam swap in my original 86 305 tpi with 24,000 original miles, now i'm going with the comp extreme energy
212 218 449 456 112lsa , i'm also going to go with there pushrods, its there premium choice, now for the heads on my car , i will get them ported , and i will put the bigger 1.94 valves in , i will also change my springs what springs do you recomend for me, also should i get the heads milled for a little more compression,

the only thing is i have to stick with the stock chip at least to next year, i was told to put in afpr and a 180 thermostat,

any input would help alot
thanks

 

You can buy some good Speed Pro springs from Federal Mogul for less than $75 and you'll need to rent a valve spring removal tool and an air compressor to fill each cylinder and hold the valve up while you change the springs.

Or, I've heard of people shoving rope or something into the spark plug hole to keep the vavle in place.

Anybody else tried this? Any easier methods?

Just be sure the springs are matched to the max lift of your cam.

 

Both of you guys can use Speed Pro VS739R, I believe they are rated to just over .500 lift.

They are quite inexpensive, available form any parts store that carries Federal Mogul.

I worked in a machine shop and those are the springs we used on any SBC under 350 hp and they are very reliable.

Best bang for the buck, or just use the recommended spring for your cam in the Comp book, but you will pay alot more.

This spring is more than enough for either of your combinations. With those cams the engine should run fine on the stock PROMs as long as you know how to tune the rest of the TPI (idle,IAC,timing,TPS, etc..).

Though a custom chip will definately help...

 

I dont know what these guys are saying or talking you into or out of, but If it were my car, I would take some advise given and wait on a comp cam or an expensive one until another time when the heads are redone and install springs at that time. For all that have not looked at this link on this site, scroll to the bottom and look, https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml
Notice the cam that came in the 87 TPI autos is an absolute piece of garbage. A simple solution without getting crazy spending money or changing valve springs is to either get a used original cam for an 87 & up TPI 5 speed car or a 87& up TPI 350 and ENJOY the extra 25 HP out of it. These things sell on these boards and ebay all the time for dirt cheap, (under $50.00 sometimes). Another option would be to go with a used stock LT1 camshaft.
Wishmaster, you are so close to having this cam out now, it would be crazy not to get rid of it. The cams mentioned in combination with your headers etc, will make a noticeable difference.

mikobu3
Your 86 is a different Flat tappet design and could be bought new from almost anyone for fairly cheap!

Just my thoughts guys!

 

I think that I am beginning to develop a stutter online here...just to make myself abunduntly clear here...

I believe that yes, you should do some mods that make you more power...if you want to change the cam, that is great...but change the valve springs too...the stock ones suck...not to mention the fact that they wear too, so if they are stock and/or the engine has ever been over-revved, they are probably weak...

For another post that clarifies that stock valve springs suck...

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=173252

All i keep saying (just like centaur) is to do it right...hell, you can even go to www.competitionproducts.com and buy their z28 springs for a reasonable price...

Lastly, you are going to do what you want to do...and you did ask for advice in the 1st place....but do what you feel comfortable with. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the stock springs, especially with my own experience...

Good luck.

 

isn't my lift 449 456 on the cam i specified,
if so why do i need 500 lift,

i already bought the cam , and they say it will run good with the stock computer, should i still change the springs even if i don't go with a 500 lift
thanks

 

just noticed that the 449 456 lift is with 1.5 roller rockers,
what if i don't want to use roller rockers, i want to keep the car looking original ,

 

What's under a man's valve covers is his own personal business. Trust us. If you change the cam, change the springs. Period. The rocker arm ratio will determine the valve lift. Whether you use the stock ball pivots or roller bearings is immaterial in terms of valve lift. Both are available in the 1.5 ratio.

 

i just called comp back, i ordered the whole kit , the kit has the cam , lifters, springs, 1.5 rocker arms, pushrods, and timing chain, and valve seals, all for a cost of 368.00 us,
not bad the guy from sudbury want 500 canadian for just the cam and lifters,

the guy also told me that if i port my heads and put the bigger1.94 valves , that i would need an aftermarket chip, the only thing is where i live no one no's how to make a customized chip

 

"What's under a man's valve covers is his own personal business"

Yeah...like the automotive version of the "Don't ask, don't Tell" :lala:

I have some news for you...the stock chip will work fine for now, unless you change your injectors to larger ones...but having done my own tuning, I can tell you that even a stock chip has a lot of room for improvement...the cam guy is basically saying that the stock chip won't recognize the changes that make your engine breathe better...but the MAF system responds pretty well to mild changes.

Bottom line: I would go to the DIY Prom board and check out the FAQ for tuning...you can improve your HP, MPG and overall drivability of your combo by tuning....look into it.

 

111 LSA seems too much. That idle would be too rough for a tpi/computer. I didn't read the whole board, so excuse my ignorance. -89IRO

 

You don't understand LSA....the stock cam has an LSA of about 114 and you don't want to typically go below 112. With a higher LSA, the idle is smoother and thus there should be more vacuum, which the computer likes.

Tuning for a cam with 110 LSA can be done, but it is more difficult. That is why I would recommend getting at least a 112 LSA and preferrably a 114 LSA...

HTH,

 

Wishmaster, just my 2cents. i agree with the main body, on the springs. however i belive you will get more out of the engine with some head work first. put in the 7/16 screw in studs, increase your valve size, 3 angle, etc.etc. if you want to pursue the spring thing i have a brand new set of z28 springs, i think you can get up .510 gross lift out of them max, you can have them cheap. if you are interested you can get me at afast87@yahoo.com.

Later

 

Actually I understand LSA just fine thank you. The stock L98 cam has an LSA of 116, not 114. With a computer, I don't think I would go below 114* LSA. -89IRO

 

Ok...I misread your post...

The fact remains that 112 LSA will work just fine and if you do some tuning, the 110 LSA will work too...ask Traxion.

 

What about these specs? Good or no?


Valve lift @ .050"
Intake - .476"
Exhaust - .479"

Duration @ .050"
Intake - 203 degrees
Exhaust - 210 degrees

Lobe lift @ .050"
Intake - .298"
Exhaust - .299"

Lobe separation
115 degrees

My engine is just sitting there beggin to be put back together.....

I just want to get a CAM some new rockers and be done with it...I dont have money for anything else...

I have no clue what im looking for in an CAM Im going by you guys recommendations!.....

 

That one sounds pretty mild. I don't feel like reading this whole post, so I'm going to ask you if you care about passing smog and what your plans are for the car--? That cam seems like it would be good for the street and computer/smog friendly. With that cam, it would still be safe to run some 1.6 rockers. -89IRO

 

Sigh...I DO feel like reading the whole post and I still maintain that with your stock valve springs, that lift could be bad...

Good luck though....

 

I wont argue this for a minute, the duration seems a bit better than your stock cam but it definitely has to much lift for the used stock springs. 89IRO, It appears by the lobe lift of that cam that he was talking about running 1.6 rockers already. Even with 1.5s the stock springs probably wont cut it.

 

OK, sorry guys I didn't say anything about his stock springs, jees. And, sigh, no, I didn't have time to read the whole thing because I was busy, I'm sure you have done that too! That doesn't seem like much lift especially with 1.6s. -89IRO

 

With the right springs...sure, that lift is ok.

Look at it this way...if nothing else, this post will be finished and go into the archives, right? Then when someone does a search, isn't it semi-important to have good info? I can't tell you how much searching past threads has helped me learn and piece together good information. A lot of the talent/knowledge on this board doesn't respond to every question because they don't have the time...so if you are going to respond...put good info down.

 

How much more "good info" do you want? The guy asked everyone how that cam sounded. I meant what I said. I guess I misunderstood him because you guys said it included the 1.6 rockers. Sorry if I'm not going to go into a lecture about how a camshaft works like some people here might. -89IRO

 

I think what the boys are trying to say to you is this simply.....

CAM & HEADS go together like shoes. If you change just one of them, they either are both the same foot, or don't match.

I know all about the $$ issues, I hear ya there bro. Since you have the motor torn down that far(I'm assuming since you wanna change cam, the motor is pulled on a stand??) Anyway, I think that you could take you "Stock" Heads off fairly easy and take them straight to the machine shop. Get them done over (valve job, guides, ect) Should only cost about 200 or so. Buy Z28 springs that are good for 510 lift, and have the machine shop install them for ya, this whole ordeal should be under$400 so far.

Now, you call compcams give them your head specs and stuff, then get a cam.

I know you don't wanna hear that, but trust me, a different cam WILL NOT benefit you unless you take care of the heads first. Mr. 406 is right (Although Highly redundant, He's right) This is just my opinion, I think that you'll be more satisfied in the long run if you do it right. TRUST ME, I did stuff the wrong way and regretted it before with my '90RS. Now I do it the right way with my '92.

W/E Best of Luck to ya, and I hope you do the right thing. Sorry to gang up on ya.

 

MAN! there are people all over this board that have done a cam swap and didnt change the heads or springs or rockers...and seen some really good gains over the dreaded "peanut cam" or they did and didnt mention all of what they did.....

damn! I guess I'll just leave with what I have...



(85TPI400)>>>>>>> I dont know what these guys are saying or talking you into or out of, but If it were my car, I would take some advise given and wait on a comp cam or an expensive one until another time when the heads are redone and install springs at that time. For all that have not looked at this link on this site, scroll to the bottom and look, https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml
Notice the cam that came in the 87 TPI autos is an absolute piece of garbage. A simple solution without getting crazy spending money or changing valve springs is to either get a used original cam for an 87 & up TPI 5 speed car or a 87& up TPI 350 and ENJOY the extra 25 HP out of it. These things sell on these boards and ebay all the time for dirt cheap, (under $50.00 sometimes). Another option would be to go with a used stock LT1 camshaft.
Wishmaster, you are so close to having this cam out now, it would be crazy not to get rid of it. The cams mentioned in combination with your headers etc, will make a noticeable difference.

mikobu3
Your 86 is a different Flat tappet design and could be bought new from almost anyone for fairly cheap!
Just my thoughts guys!



My car ran just fine! Wasnt a damn thing wroong with it except for a leaking waterpump......now it doesnt run at all cause I strated this stupid project......Im SO pissed at myself....

 

I just don't think that its worth it after going through all the trouble of having put in a new cam and degreeing it for a stock setup just to gain 25 ponies. A Flowmaster muffler and a good K&N air filter will do that also, in just about 1 hour you can see that gain and only 125 bucks TOPS!!!

Just a suggestion, if you really wanna just do the cam, YES, you CAN see up to a 25 horse gain. LOOK AT THE FINE PRINT "CAN SEE", not actually "WILL SEE". Hey, if you wanna do it, go ahead.
I only have a 13 second daily driver, so there are tons off ppl on here that know more than me. That's just my 2 cents

 

heres what Im stuck with right now........Im not saying you dont know what your talking about but you do not have a stock engine either....

How long can I leave the engine sitting like this? without water/oil going thru it? wont it dry all up? Im pretty stupid when it comes to MAJOR engine work like what I have started without knowing what in the hell Im doing....

 

It shouldn't dry up on you. I know how you feel about not being able to drive your car thou too. Last summer when I dropped a valve in my 305, the car sat for like 3 months while I built the 350 for in it. IT sucked bad. When I finally got it together, I drove it to work woth open headers because my custom y-pipe wasn't done. LOL

If you don't wanna get too much more pep out of your motor than what you have, then go for the cam. Believe me when I say this thou, its a be-yatch to do a cam.

If you can save up some money and let the car sit for a month or so, World Products Sells the Torquer Heads complete for $379.99/pc out of summit. I think the torquer 305's are even cheaper, that's what you need. Those heads would really wake that car up with a new compcam and it would already have the springs that could take it. Doing this should get you no less than 60 horses out of the motor. probably more depending on your exhaust.

 

I am going through this same situation right now. I am trying to decide which cam to get. For my setup(see sig), CompCams recommends the 12-262-4. (114LSA, 218/224, .464/.470) They also told me to stay away from the 1.6 rockers on a 305. Has anyone replaced their cam and heads without changing the intake? Just wondering if the TPI would handle a cam like this. I was thinking of changing to the LT1 intake but that seems like a real PITA to do because of all the modifications that have to be done. Are there any other cheap alternatives to the intake. FYI, the S/R Torquer 305 heads are $545 for the set at Summit right now.

 

Wishmaster,
Dont give up, I can understand your frustration. Most of us have been in your shoes thinking we bit off more than we can chew with a project like this. My first TPI Iroc I ripped apart 8 years ago for an engine rebuild and I thought the same thing. Since then I have owned, bought , built and sold more third gens with more engine combinations than I can count.
Be confident, take your time and pay attention to keeping all engine internals clean.
I still stand behind my original advice and say to go for a used original cam for an 87 & up TPI 5 speed car or a 87& up TPI 350 these cams all spec at .430 or under lift with 1.5 rockers but have a good duration increase over your peanut cam. Reguardless what other people may say, you can use one of those with the stock springs without problems, I have done this quite a few times on different cars and never, I repeat never had any negative results.
If you lived somewhat close, I would personally come over and throw a cam in it with you, just so you didnt put it back together with the stock one, it would probably take us a little over an hour with the way your car is taken apart now.
If you looked at my current project cars you woulnt feel so bad, or you would totally laugh, I am in the process of working on three of my thirdgens, all of which will involve complete engine swaps and two of them will get different transmissions put in them as well.

 

LT4 Duration @ 0.050 (I/E): 203/210 Lift, (I/E): .476"/.480" Lobe Separation: 115


what about this cam? good specs?

 

The specs are good, but like 88TPI406GTA keeps saying your existing springs are really not up to it. New stock heads and springs are supposed to accomodate lift up to .480. I myself think that that is pushing it. What you have to keep in mind is that your stock springs are old and not what they used to be. That is why I would recommend not going over the .440 lift range in cam or less with what you are trying to work with.
Just my opinion though,
I wish others would get involed in this thread and throw in their oppinions or past experiences as well!