85l98

i went to a corvette challenge event at englishtown yesterday and went 11:12 at 122.54 mph with unported super ram and mas air meter and 24lb injectors on the motor no gas,turbo or blower through the mufflers with 307 gears

Der91Z

iTrader: (1)

Thats awesome, thats not on the tuned port is it?

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

So what is your question?

BuckeyeROC

I saw that on corvetteforum, nice run!

cobrakiller1989

iTrader: (1)

want to fill us in on anymore of your setup?

badgta

iTrader: (4)

i want to see a time slip!!!!! that has to be... well

Der91Z

iTrader: (1)

you said it not me

85l98

here is the web site from yesterdays racehttp://www.corvettechallenge.info/2002round6.shtml
i am the runner up with the gold vette

85l98

not bs just old fashion horse power

85l98

ok here it is
MODIFICATIONS
406 SMALL BLOCK CHEVY
WISECO FLAT TOP PISTONS
190-195CC AFR HEADS NO PORT WORK
1.6 COMP CAMS PRO MAGNUM ROLLER ROCKERS
TPIS SOLID ROLLER CAM 278-278 DUR 244-244 DUR AT 50 572-572 LIFT 112LC
TRICK FLOW CHROME MOLLY PUSH RODS
ACCEL SUPER RAM
BIG MOUTH INTAKE
58MM THROTLE BODY
24LB FORD MOTORSPORT SVO INJECTORS
WALBO 340 W/HOTWIRE KIT IN TANK PUMP
ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
TPIS COLD AIR INDUCTION
K&N FILTER
REBUILT 700R4 WITH SHIFT KIT
TCI 2700 STALL NO LOCK UP CONVERTER
1 5/8 INCH LONG TUBE HEADERS
CORVETTE FLOWMASTER MUFFLERS 2 1/2
BORLA REAR Y PIPE
MODIFIED MASS AIR FLOW METER
160 DEG THERMOSTAT WITH 4 1/8 INCH HOLES IN IT
UNDERDRIVE PULLEYS
FORMATO CHIP
DANA 44 307 GEARS
HIGH OUTPUT COIL
MSD 6AL
MSD SHIFT LIGHT
MOBIL ONE 0W-30W OIL
ROLL BAR WAS CUSTOM MADE AND INSTALLED BY NEVELIFT MOTORSPORT IN NEW JERSEY THE BAR IS CHROME MOLLY STEEL AND WEIGHS JUST 40LBS
ALL TIMES WERE RUN THROUGH THE EXHAUST

badgta

iTrader: (4)

now he explains it!! lol!!!! i thought you meant a l98 or a 350.....

rezinn

That's pretty fast for not using gas. What kind of MAF are you using, and why are you using it instead of something better? You know a stock one flows something like 5xx cfm.

85l98

just a stock bosch unit for the car. screens removed heat sinks taken out i am posting this here to show all you guys you do not need to change over to speed density to go fast

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'd be even more interrested in finding out what your car would run if you converted to speed density. I'd bet you could get it into the 10s.

There's no doubt that you can go fast with a MAF. You can go fast with stock exhaust manifolds if that's your bag too. The thing is, it's still a restriction no matter how well you manage to work around it.

89ProchargedROC

MAF isn't a restriction until you go 10s

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

obi -wan what are your short times(60 ft) with the 3.07 gears.

what chip is in your car and ECM, i dunno it just seems crazy that a 406 none the less doesnt starve for air. major congrats bro !!!!

Grumpy

take a $150 sensor, do another $75 worth of work to it to do the same job as a $25 MAP sensor. Yep, real cost effective.
Specially since in some climates when you cut the heat sinks out they only last 20K miles.

Spend enough money and you can make lots of points.

SD is still cheaper, and easier to CORRECTLY tune then a MAF.

For the difference in prices from your MAF to MAP you could just about buy a DIY WB.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

oh man ! i didnt know salvage yards gave away ECM's and wiring harnesses. i'll call damrons tommorow, hell! they might might even deliver it as part of there non-profit help the racers association.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

i forgot about the no-cost chip burning right, plus the days of trouble shooting when a progam doesnt work for **** ......
theres a guy here in the bay area who builds alot of vettes and EFI powered cars i know he's biult alot of vettes that run like 12.0's with stock gears.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

seems like a combo that works.... thats all. i dont think any body was trying to " make a point" there are alot people here who spend money some wisely some not, alot of us are learning, some poeple like to help others with what they see worked great for them...

Balael6

Hey 85L98, did you do the programming of your TPI? Or did you have someone else do it? and if you did do it yourself, how hard, easy was it? Great work man!

PJ

ninety1TAgta

QuickL98 when someone puts that much and money work into building a 406 or anything close that, I dont think spending even a few hundred bucks (which converting to SD would not come close to costing anyway) for a couple tenths in the quarter mile is going to be a heartbreaker... I do agree with some of the stuff you said if it applies to an L98 in the 14s where it is probably not worth the time or money, which could make bigger gains elsewhere.

Guest

What climate is that?

85l98

to grumpy it is a $100 maf and i did the work which is free the reason i like the maf over sd i can go to to track to track from sea level to 5000+ ft and not have to take a pocket full of proms with me or a laptop and burn on the fly i like the ease of the maf you take one pass down the track see where the o2s are then turn pressure up or down thats all the maf might be a restriction i am not saying it is not just that you can run very fast with the maf and a lot les headaches
to quick l98 its best 60ft is a 1.55 and thats with a 2700 stall converter
ps gm expierenced some burning out of the maf if you run it wide out for a hour or two in death valley and shut them off right away if you gut them since i dont live anywhere close to death valley i shouldnt ave a problem

hectorsn

I'd be willing to bet that this chip cost you more than swapping to SD and buying PROM burning equipment. And as far as elevation changes, yes, MAP takes care of those too. Simple calculation based on atmospheric pressure that it makes at every KOEO.

Ooops, I forgot to add, very nice times ala NA!

Acceld Z

How lame has this board become? It's allways the same jerk offs with the same garbage posts

Those are great times from an obviously well thought out and setup 'vette.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

We need that smilie with the I'm with stupid above flag.

I'm tired of the SD cheerleaders also. You can go fast with a MAF sensor, just like a MAP sensor.

Cost at this stage of the game doesn't mean jack sh*t.

Nobody goes out and buys a new maf just to gut it, they use the stocker, no cost outlay there. The programming was going to have to be done anyway, so nothing lost.

Once we all start putting down numbers like this with MAF sensors, maybe everybody will shut up.

Congrats on the set-up and the timeslip.

tpi_roc

It doesn't matter what you can DO with maf...

It matters how much better you could do with something else


Thats like saying "OMFG I GOT MY STOCK HEADS TO 13's!!!"


So everyone go throw away your AFR's and put some L98's back on.


There are virtues to MAF and MAP and the world will never agree on one over the other, however I'd put my money on the fact that an equally tuned (which would probably end up better tuned) SD setup would run quicker because when it comes to custom proms.. there's just more flexability with SD, bottom line.

There's more to it than just the MAF being in the way, its also not very tuner friendly.

Acceld Z

I don't think anyone will argue with that. What I was trying to get at is that it's allways the same guys posting the same rude and ignorant garbage. If you have a problem expressing yourself without being rude, don't even try. Honestly, this board has gone to hell because any time someone posts something interesting you get people flaming the poster......and it's allways the same people doing the flaming.

BTW, I was under the impression that the MAF itself wasn't the problem. I thought that the ECM's inabiltity to come up with decent numbers after it's 255gph was the problem.

tpi_roc

When in a tuners hands the 165 (maf) ecm is almost a nightmare.... It doesn't really have the tables necissary for tuning your fuel curve accuratly without tremendous effort. The SD ecm gives you a whole lot more control over your fuel curve with the volumentric effiecency table, and there's the little side bonus of not having a maf in your airway (and its cheaper to replace the map sensor). There are virtues to SD/MAP beyond just the sensor itself...


and yes this board does seem to be getting pretty sad... but what can the minority do against the masses besides put up with it and weed out the good info

tpi_roc

And yes you're right, in that sense there is 2 limitations of the maf system.

1. Max flow you can squeeze through the sensor
2. Max flow the ecm is capable of reading (the neat 255 issue)

Guest

Yea, we do need the "I'm with stupid" smiley.

I wonder how many of the SD TPI banner wavers here have gone 11.12 with their car? Yea, thats what I thought...

tpi_roc

I wonder how many SD guys would go slower by switching to MAF

yea thats what i thought

Guest

Whats your point? Everyone has to come in here and say the same thing like 2 year olds "It'll be faster with SD"

Well you know what, take your SD car and race him for pinkslips if you are so smart. In other words, walk the walk or get lost.

85l98

guys you do not have to fight over me all i am saying you can go this fast with a maf car so maybe some of the guys that allready have a maf car do not feel presured in to switching to sd system just to go fast when they can this fast with out switching


ps thanks for the good remarks it is really hard to get these times out of a fuel injection car wheater sd or maf it was and is a lot easier and cheaper to do it with a carb thanks again

tpi_roc

Ya know.. I credit you for your contributions to the thirdgen community, however you'd get through to a whole lot more people if you didn't push them all into defense mode with your king chit posting style


And with your "Whats your point" i'd have to ask you the same.. what is your point? He has a faster car, that was never the point, neither was SD vs MAF but since the topic has migrated I'm going to state that the point here is that In my opinion, his times would drop with equal investments into tuning SD.


And as for 85l98, good job

ImportsRsloths

TPI ROC you sure do talk to talk but do you walk the walk??? Lets see the slips Mr. SD....

on a side note GOOD WORK 85l98

tpi_roc

How am I mr SD?

And what slips do you want? Current combo? or slips showing before and after SD?


What is it you really want to do? Mindlessly throw flames like your other posts? or engage in a real debate

Acceld Z

Guest

Yea, but thats the thing... I AM 'king chit' as you put it...

Did you finish that SD swap yet? Still waiting over here....

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

sorry this was most likely my fualt for giving my .02 for grumpys remark. it bothered me that all becuase some one offered up a little food for thought and people gave him **** is what bothered me. i read post here about people all excited about their 730 conversion on their modded 350 and they just broke 13.30's after a slew of chips. you dont see people posting ... well why didnt you build a motor with more ***** and just leave the MAF on it ...duh..

i've seen equally fast cars on this website....

you know what strange though 4th gens have MAFs and MAPs.... look how they perform .

u r sofa king we tah did

good lord, screw the damn maf-SD arguement.

man this sh*t gets so freakin old on this site. before you even open up a post you always know who is gonna be the one starting arguments and who is gonna throw up the flag on a claim.

great job 85L98, and sweet ride.

tpi_roc

Since I know i'd have to clearify this anyways for some of you..

Im not closing this for personal reasons, i'll even let madmax have his king chit cake and eat it too.

With that being said this thread has ran dry of any technical content and will only continue to be a flame war, I'm ashamed I even tried to throw out something of a technical aspect in hopes to give light to both sides of maf vs map


once again 85l98 nice work, sorry your thread was ruined.

Acceld Z

Before this get's shut down..........

So the power increase would be a result of the SD ECM being a "smarter" unit? Or simply because the MAF itself is an airflow restriction. I'm not trying to be an ***, i'd genuinely like to know.

tpi_roc

Untill your entire combo flows more CFM than your maf your maf isn't an airflow restriction, granted it may create some negative turbulance, thats to deep into theory for me to start an argument on


The key point of SD is the fact that you can tune your A/F ratio throughout your load and RPM range... ITs more tuner friendly, a better tune, is better horse power (and mileage).

Thats why even though I knwo and preach virtues of maf, I still state clearly that Im of the opinion that SD is a better choice.


How can you argue that less tunability is better?

Now if you DONT tune, stay maf. BUt if you want the edge, speed density is the answer.

Glad we could end this a bit better