The Saga contiues....
#1
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 820
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From: A thorn in a few people's sides
Engine: 2 mice and a cat
The Saga contiues....
I ran the car again down at Keystone yesterday. The was run the first time at ~160 and the weather was not perfect, but much better than before. I had the honor of meeting corkyvette! He and I talked for quite a while before I raced. He checked the car over and said everything appeared to be in check.
I explained how my oil pressure and WB are acting much better after setting the valves. I told him I was really confident that the car would run a minimum of 12.8 at 107 MPH. He agree it should easily be able to turn that time.
First run:
RT .498
60' 1.952
330 5.536
1/8 8.474
MPH 84.08
1000 11.021
1/4 13.204
MPH 101.04
I was totally amazed, but not surprised. Corky came over while I was laughing (now I don't even get mad, I just shake my head), with my dad and stare at the engine.
Corky came over and we discussed some items that could be messed up. One thing I mentioned that surprised him was I said I was crossing the traps at ~4600 RPM. He said there was no way I could be crossing at that RPM and that MPH. I said well I am not 100% that is what I saw. I just happened to glance down at the tach as I crossed. I said I would check on the next run.
We were discussing RPms and I explained that I normally shift at 5600. The one time I did run a 12 was when the tranny would not shift into 3rd and I way over reved 2nd. Then let off. It went into gear, then I got back into it. What came out of the conversation is that I way over reved 2nd gear. And that maybe my tach was off and I was not getting into my power band. I explained the car doesn't seem to be loosing power at the top or anything. So we made a plan for me to shift it at 6400.
Next run. Car at ~170 after burnout. Tried to really get the tires heated and sticky to improve the 60' I lost. I hit 5000 RPM in second gear and they were really smokin. I burned out of the water and staged. Tach set at 6400. I really thought that might have been the problem and that is why I saw the unusually high RPM at the traps.
I launched the car and knew right away the 60 was no better than the previous run. Car ran up to 6000+ and I could feel it flatten off, but I wanted to stick to the game plan. Each gear was taken to 6400. I crossed the traps feeling less than optimistic.
On my return to the pits an official came running out to stop me. I knew why.....I thought I must have hit 12s and inmy haste getting ready that morning forgot my helmet. They never asked so I did not bring it up at the tech check-in. He stopped me and I put the window down. He said you really got that car movin in that run. I said OH Yeah! Thinking maybe the ET was well into the 12s. He said yep with that 13.4 you can park the car unless you have a helmet. I said, 13.4 that SUCKS! He said well you still need a helmet. I said OK sorry. I won't run again. So that shot down another theory.
Upon returning to the pit I was met by Dad & Corky. I said well that wasn't it. I forgot to do one of my jobs during the race. Watch to see what RPM I crossed at, I was data logging that run so we went to view the data and see what RPm I crossed at.
Upon reviewing the data we found something I have never noticed before. During the run the car will climb in RPM for instance:
4000
4025
4050
4025
4050
4075
4100
4125
4150
4175
4150
4175
Sorry for the long set of numbers, but do you see the problem? My RPMs actually go backward at times? What the hell is up with that? This very well could be the gremlin. The car is running in my opinion worst than ever lately. The 60 ft seems very sluggish and nothing has been changed.
Corky thinks, and I agree I have an ignition problem. Or a fuel problem. But the funny thing is, and I am very sensitive to things going on in the car (if you know what I mean). And I feel absolutely nothing that would indicate the car missing.
I am turning to you racing gurus to give me a lead on what the heck could be causing this type of behavior. I have the old cap, so I am definately going to replace that ASAP and see if that makes a difference, and then onto the plugs and wires. All of which are new equip.
Again I would love to hear what you guys think would cause this and have it not be felt? I would think maybe a weak coil, that is firing, but not missing. A miss I would think you would feel bigtime.
I am going to post this in a few spots, hope no one cares. This is a HUGE lead that I think might solve me 5 month long search of my missing power.
Thank to all that try to, and already have helped. And a Huge thanks to Corky for sticking with my through the night helping. Corky is a real stand up guy! I also had the privilage to meet 87_TA. Its nice to finally put some faces to the names.
Lets hear it guys.
I explained how my oil pressure and WB are acting much better after setting the valves. I told him I was really confident that the car would run a minimum of 12.8 at 107 MPH. He agree it should easily be able to turn that time.
First run:
RT .498
60' 1.952
330 5.536
1/8 8.474
MPH 84.08
1000 11.021
1/4 13.204
MPH 101.04
I was totally amazed, but not surprised. Corky came over while I was laughing (now I don't even get mad, I just shake my head), with my dad and stare at the engine.
Corky came over and we discussed some items that could be messed up. One thing I mentioned that surprised him was I said I was crossing the traps at ~4600 RPM. He said there was no way I could be crossing at that RPM and that MPH. I said well I am not 100% that is what I saw. I just happened to glance down at the tach as I crossed. I said I would check on the next run.
We were discussing RPms and I explained that I normally shift at 5600. The one time I did run a 12 was when the tranny would not shift into 3rd and I way over reved 2nd. Then let off. It went into gear, then I got back into it. What came out of the conversation is that I way over reved 2nd gear. And that maybe my tach was off and I was not getting into my power band. I explained the car doesn't seem to be loosing power at the top or anything. So we made a plan for me to shift it at 6400.
Next run. Car at ~170 after burnout. Tried to really get the tires heated and sticky to improve the 60' I lost. I hit 5000 RPM in second gear and they were really smokin. I burned out of the water and staged. Tach set at 6400. I really thought that might have been the problem and that is why I saw the unusually high RPM at the traps.
I launched the car and knew right away the 60 was no better than the previous run. Car ran up to 6000+ and I could feel it flatten off, but I wanted to stick to the game plan. Each gear was taken to 6400. I crossed the traps feeling less than optimistic.
On my return to the pits an official came running out to stop me. I knew why.....I thought I must have hit 12s and inmy haste getting ready that morning forgot my helmet. They never asked so I did not bring it up at the tech check-in. He stopped me and I put the window down. He said you really got that car movin in that run. I said OH Yeah! Thinking maybe the ET was well into the 12s. He said yep with that 13.4 you can park the car unless you have a helmet. I said, 13.4 that SUCKS! He said well you still need a helmet. I said OK sorry. I won't run again. So that shot down another theory.
Upon returning to the pit I was met by Dad & Corky. I said well that wasn't it. I forgot to do one of my jobs during the race. Watch to see what RPM I crossed at, I was data logging that run so we went to view the data and see what RPm I crossed at.
Upon reviewing the data we found something I have never noticed before. During the run the car will climb in RPM for instance:
4000
4025
4050
4025
4050
4075
4100
4125
4150
4175
4150
4175
Sorry for the long set of numbers, but do you see the problem? My RPMs actually go backward at times? What the hell is up with that? This very well could be the gremlin. The car is running in my opinion worst than ever lately. The 60 ft seems very sluggish and nothing has been changed.
Corky thinks, and I agree I have an ignition problem. Or a fuel problem. But the funny thing is, and I am very sensitive to things going on in the car (if you know what I mean). And I feel absolutely nothing that would indicate the car missing.
I am turning to you racing gurus to give me a lead on what the heck could be causing this type of behavior. I have the old cap, so I am definately going to replace that ASAP and see if that makes a difference, and then onto the plugs and wires. All of which are new equip.
Again I would love to hear what you guys think would cause this and have it not be felt? I would think maybe a weak coil, that is firing, but not missing. A miss I would think you would feel bigtime.
I am going to post this in a few spots, hope no one cares. This is a HUGE lead that I think might solve me 5 month long search of my missing power.
Thank to all that try to, and already have helped. And a Huge thanks to Corky for sticking with my through the night helping. Corky is a real stand up guy! I also had the privilage to meet 87_TA. Its nice to finally put some faces to the names.
Lets hear it guys.
#2
TGO Supporter
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 12
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
A few things...
With the 219 cam building so much cylinder pressure, I used to get knock retard of 6-10 degrees during each run, usually the highest right after the 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. You will have to log your runs and adjust the timing according to the rpm and lv8.
I have 2 friends with minirams that just found out that their plastic intake tubes that are before the throttle body have been colapsing at high load and there is a drop in power when that happens.
I can send you my .bin file from ed wright in $6e but it needs fuel added in the rpms.
I've gone to 36 lb injectors to try and fix my lean problem.
Do you have traction?
The rpm drop is from the convertor locking up in 3rd gear. Mine does it, and everybody else that I know with a 700 does it.
With the 219 cam building so much cylinder pressure, I used to get knock retard of 6-10 degrees during each run, usually the highest right after the 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. You will have to log your runs and adjust the timing according to the rpm and lv8.
I have 2 friends with minirams that just found out that their plastic intake tubes that are before the throttle body have been colapsing at high load and there is a drop in power when that happens.
I can send you my .bin file from ed wright in $6e but it needs fuel added in the rpms.
I've gone to 36 lb injectors to try and fix my lean problem.
Do you have traction?
The rpm drop is from the convertor locking up in 3rd gear. Mine does it, and everybody else that I know with a 700 does it.
Last edited by 89gta383; 08-18-2002 at 09:25 PM.
#3
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 820
Likes: 0
From: A thorn in a few people's sides
Engine: 2 mice and a cat
Originally posted by 89gta383
A few things...
With the 219 cam building so much cylinder pressure, I used to get knock retard of 6-10 degrees during each run, usually the highest right after the 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. You will have to log your runs and adjust the timing according to the rpm and lv8.
***I have the knock sensor disconnected.
I have 2 friends with minirams that just found out that their plastic intake tubes that are before the throttle body have been colapsing at high load and there is a drop in power when that happens.
Hmmmm...Maybe I will have to check that. How did they tell? I am pulling around 248 g/sec at the higher RPMs.
I can send you my .bin file from ed wright in $6e but it needs fuel added in the rpms.
Would love to take a look.
I've gone to 36 lb injectors to try and fix my lean problem.
Do you have traction?
I was pulling 1.7 before the MPH really started to drop off.
The rpm drop is from the convertor locking up in 3rd gear. Mine does it, and everybody else that I know with a 700 does it.
Yes you are right, I saw were this occured, however it occured about 10 or more times through the run! Its only about 25 RPMs at most points, but sometimes more in others. The RPMs dropped about 200 when the converter locked. My previous runs never showed this behavior, therefor I would think it was new problem, unless its more noticable with the new tranny? It almost looks like its surging, but I can't feel it.
A few things...
With the 219 cam building so much cylinder pressure, I used to get knock retard of 6-10 degrees during each run, usually the highest right after the 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. You will have to log your runs and adjust the timing according to the rpm and lv8.
***I have the knock sensor disconnected.
I have 2 friends with minirams that just found out that their plastic intake tubes that are before the throttle body have been colapsing at high load and there is a drop in power when that happens.
Hmmmm...Maybe I will have to check that. How did they tell? I am pulling around 248 g/sec at the higher RPMs.
I can send you my .bin file from ed wright in $6e but it needs fuel added in the rpms.
Would love to take a look.
I've gone to 36 lb injectors to try and fix my lean problem.
Do you have traction?
I was pulling 1.7 before the MPH really started to drop off.
The rpm drop is from the convertor locking up in 3rd gear. Mine does it, and everybody else that I know with a 700 does it.
Yes you are right, I saw were this occured, however it occured about 10 or more times through the run! Its only about 25 RPMs at most points, but sometimes more in others. The RPMs dropped about 200 when the converter locked. My previous runs never showed this behavior, therefor I would think it was new problem, unless its more noticable with the new tranny? It almost looks like its surging, but I can't feel it.
Last edited by ski_dwn_it; 08-19-2002 at 08:47 AM.
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