f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

i want to have a fire breathin 305 and im pretty sure i have a sound combination but i would like numerous opinions

ported 305 tpi heads (or afr 180's)
superram base (maybe a siamese on it)
slp runners fully siamesed
ported/siamesed plenum
tuned equal length headers
and a lt4 hotcam with 1.6 rockers

would i get around 400 horse with the ported 305 heads and how much more would i get with afr 180's

thanks alot guys!! i really appreciate the responses in advance

rhuarc30

If you really want a 400 hp 305 check out this link
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

ive read that article but i want to keep it tuned port...
from what i have what kinda power would i get??

IF SOME WITH DD2000 READS THIS can u please dyno this for me?

ImportsRsloths

There is no way your 305 will pull anywhere near 400 ponies with stock heads (DONT CARE WHAT YOU DO TO THEM!) or any long tube runner set up or superram deal....... youd have to get AFR190's and either an lt1 manifold, HSR, or miniram.... the lt4 hotcam with afr's is a good start though!!

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

the 305 ported heads will support 450+ horse find out for yourself

hp = cfm x 0.2575 x number of cylinders

So, lets plug in the numbers for the ported 305 heads.

225 x 0.2575 x 8 = 463.5 hp
this formula is directly off of airflowresearch's page so if u have n e discrepencies talk to them
That is what the ported 305 heads will support under perfect conditions, i.e., cam, compression, headers, temp., humidity, etc.

so with a ported and siamesed aftermarket manifold base siamesed slp runners and ported/siamesed plenum a comp cams XR252, headers and a mandrel bent cat back....i bet a dollar to a dime ill be over 350 horse and 425 ft pounds...

i hada buddy dyno it for me and just with ported heads and the cam i was at 300 horse and 380 ft pounds....so you think the siamesed base plenum runners headers will give me 50 horse and 45 ft pounds...i think it will....

kvu

335 stroker

kevinc

f-crazy, you need to change your ID to f-ing-crazy.

tpi_roc

No kidding you're hard pressed to find 400hp LTR 350's, even 383's.


Im not saying you can't make some alright torque, but 400hp??


are you talking flywheel or rear wheel.

TPI Guy

Post a link to the place where you found that equation. The problem with that equation is that your head doesn't flow 225 cfm at all valve lifts, it only flows that at maybe .500 inches of lift. That would be fine if your valves were operated by a solendiod and hit max lift almost instantaneously, but something tells me your valves are operated by a camshaft, just like everyone else.

The HOT cam won't even get you close. Check out the specs of the 305 cam posted above:
244° duration at .050" lift, 110° lobe centers, and .501"

Hot cam is 218/228 @.050".

Plus, what is it that compels you people to do these sadistic things to 305's. I don't like it, and I can gauruntee the 305 doesn't like being spun to 7200 rpm to make that kind of power.

Beast5spdGTA

what do you mean the stock short block doesn't like 7000+ rpm? I've been thinking about blowing up my 305 with fastburn heads and a LT4 intake.

My siamesed base with stock runners, runs fastest times(14.3 @ 96.8 mph)(corrected to 14.1 @ 98mph on stock heads) shifting at a rev limited 5500, so who knows how high a LTR looking system will make power in a 305. 6000 rpm maybe? I bet you could pull 350-375 hp in a 305 with stock style intake and serious heads.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

i never said i was going after 400 horse i said i would like 400 but im not gonna **** n moan if i dont get it...350 would be just fine hell even 325 ill live with...torque is what moves the car and 400+ft pounds will be more then enough to spank ls1's and a vette or 2
with a untouched base runners and plenum, ported heads and a comp cams XR252 im at 296 horse and 378 ft pounds 355 ft pounds were made at 2,000..ohh and BTW...the 296 horse was made at 5,000 and only dropped 10 at 5,500 and only dropped of by another 14 at 6,000 horse and it pulled all the way so lets not say that a LTR setup wont pull up to 6000...and thats with and umsiamesed base...so before u guys go flappin go buy a dd2000 and do some pulls yourself....
i think some of u guys are just pissy cuz my "gay weak lame tiny" 305 will outrun your 350's and that 13 second 406 on this board

i dont know how many times i have to say this but maybe one more time some of u will get it

super83Z

problem with any heads other than the 305 heads is that if the cam is too big the valve will smash the bore becasue all those heads are designed around a 4 inch bore.

build what you like



And who has a 13 second 406?

kevinc

You'll make your point very effectively when you post a timeslip and a video of your car going down the strip. Not saying this to egg you on, just pointing out that hypothetical bench-racing doesn't prove anything about 305 capability...someone's gotta build it and run it to prove all us pissy 350 guys wrong.

The truth is, if you get a 305 into the high-13's repeatably without spending more than a 350 changeover you're a winner in my book. Brand new stock 4th gens pull low-14/high-13 runs with bigger engines and better technology, if you can hang with or beat them without spending more $$ than they did you hit a home run.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

heres the 406
Gold 1985 Camaro SC
406, 700r4. 3.42 open diff
13.001@ 102.936
his name is GOLD85

im gonna use the stock heads but witha 1.94 intake and im gonna port the snot out of um....im sure u read my above posts so u know they rival the vortecs....and the cam im going to use is comp cams xr252 it has 470int 480exh lift so hittin the piston will not be an issue...
what do 2002 gt mustangs with a 5 speed run?.....and what do 6 speed lt1s run?
im door to door with the gt's to 120 and i lose a car length to the lt1 to 100...so my stock 305 5 spped will run a 14.2?....i dont mean to sound conseded but im a very talented stick driver so im sure this helps a lot....and ive beat more the one l98....

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

the way i see it....for a rebuilt 350 ball park 12 1300 bucks...then u gotta go the top end....im usin my stock bottom end and using my stock heads...the only parts im buying is an aftermarket base runners cam and headers.....so itll be around 800 bucks give or take but thats a lot less then doin a 350 then the top end...

one quick wuestion about the cam...should i bolt on 1.6 rockers and not worry about the cam right now or put a cam in it and use the stock 1.52 rockers...i know that a cam would gain the most but how much would i gain by usein 1.6 rockers and stock cam...

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

I just checked TPIS's site and the bigmouth is 425 and the accel is 459 so i guess i am going with the tpis.

Desert86Roc

All I see is alot of talk and no hard numbers. Show me a timeslip.

I also have a 13.04 second 406..... @ 1250ft that is. My ET corrected to sea level is 12.88. So why do you think you can knock that? You obviously are not going that quick.

super83Z

IF you want a good deal on Accel parts check out this guy he is great to deal with and it where I got my superram ad baseplate from.

www.cruzinperformance.com

TPI Guy

13.001 is pretty quick, where have you been? My rule of thumb is, until you can beat them, don't talk smack. If they are faster than you, they probably know something you don't....

tpi_roc

TPI GUY knows how it is.


Although a 406 has more potential than a 13 if the guys faster than you he's faster than you. When you lose you just lost, thats how it is.

Brad

And here is where I really started laughing. If you're basing your entire arguement on Desktop Dyno pulls, then you must be one happy guy. After all, ignorance is bliss.

tpi_roc

His 305 that WILL exist WILL outrun cars that are ALREADY pulling those times....


I cant wait untill we all see the day where every car on the boards loses to the big bad 305


Maybe junior should go see what ***** had to dump into his car to make it run larger displacement N/A times.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

listen im not tryin to start trouble nor am i tryin to talk smack...im just excited thats all....i relize u guys have been here longer then me and have more knowledge/experiance....im just looking forward to faster times just by opening up my stock equipment...
im just lookin for a little assistance..not tryin to step on toes...

and i know if u lose u lose reguardless...ive lost a few times and i still loved it because racing is all in fun.....

i dont suck up so dont think im doing so and i still will kick some of u butts j/k...but for real im not tryin to start ****.....
and the only reason i was talkin smack about that guy with the 406 with an open rear end is cuz he came out of no were didnt contribute n e thing and was flappin his jaws sayin 305s are gay....its what i got and im gonna owrk with it....when i have money to blow other then on 800 bucks for rent then ill have a 350 till then i gotta make use of what i have and it may be a "gay" 305...

i appoligive if i pissed n e one off....and when i get done ill be happy to post a video and timeslip


BTW ive never take my car to the track but im door to door to 120 with 2002 gt mustangs and i lose a carlength to 100 to lt1s....ive raced a few of each and the results are the same auto or stick....
so what would my car run?? low 14's?

Swapmaster

Cubic inches = HP. Seal the cylinders as best you can with good
rings and cram in as much air as money allows and be happy
with the results.

Can't we all just get along?

Kuuumbyaaaaa???????????

TPI Guy

"...and i lose a carlength to 100 to lt1s....ive raced a few of each and the results are the same auto or stick .... so what would my car run?? low 14's?"

Hey, don't be THAT GUY.

berlinetta85

It's like I always say at the track...

"punks jump up, to get beat down"

F... dude you do what you want to. Hook up that 305 and make it pull. These people on the message boards that are giving you heat are only crancky that they modded out their car so much they have nothing else to do to it.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

what does DONT BE THAT GUY mean tpi guy??
im just tellin what happend when i race them
either the half dozen gt's ive raced and the 3 lt1's ive raced are all dogs or i have a tight 305...either way im tellin what happend...

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

ohhh and thanks berlinetta85 your about the only one who told me to do what i want and hook up my 305 and that hastn said "305's are gay go witha 350"

Firebird90V6

Alright folks. Knowledge is power. If we all take the time and share thoughts and facts rather then bickering we will all be better off, save the arguing for the guys with Rustangs. With my 305TPI if you take the time and customize yourself an good CAI, change to some bigger injectors, siamese your runners, possible put on some good pullies you'll be overly suprised with how much you can get. Hell even take the time and fine someone or someway to get your prom reprogramed. Im in the process or working over my 305 so lets all just keep the information coming and bickering to yourselves.

berlinetta85

Yo F... treat it like it ain't no thang :-)

A 305 does lack in certain departments, but like the man said people... funds limit what you can do. Help the man out with what he has. And if you want to dis the guy for wanting to mod out a stock setup that rolled off the factory line, well in my opinion... you all should be rag'n on GENERAL MOTORS for the bright idea of not equiping every camaro & firebird with a 350.

And by the way F... I wish I could through some 305 advice your way to get you were you want to be... I will suggest bigger injectors are not the way to go... you'll get plenty fuel to the block with what you have. Open up the exhaust as wide as you can with a catback single out and some headers, 3inch would be good. Port out the heads, plenum, and base for even more flow. Upgrade to a 52mm throttle body. Make some kind of cold air induction system with a K&N cone. Switch to a 70% water & 30% coolant in the radiator and add water wetter to the mixture... worked wonders for me in cooling my ride down. Also check out Pro Blend oil additive as it drops your oil temp by 50 degrees part#8080 That's good stuff too.

With what I mentioned assuming you must have around 205HP stock you might bump up to the 270 neighborhood. Like firebird90v6 is saying... some pulleys and a good prom will push you into the 285 area maybe...

I'd say after all is said and done with the above mods. Hook yourself up with a light nitrous setup. Nothing too crazy... maybe a 75 or 100 shot will do you just fine. end result we're looking at 360 to 385 HP with the happy gas. Pretty close to what you want to achieve.

Now my numbers are not exact at all and just a guess on increases+your motor's age+personal experience... but they should be close.

Keep us posted on your project and remember... when things seem there worst... just roast'em in 1st :-) AH HELL YEAH!!!

TPI Guy

He's the guy that says "I've got this buddy whose car run's 14.00, and I'm faster than him on the street, that means I run 13's." Invest $20 and go to the strip.

Nobody likes that guy ... usually those guys live in cornfields and have names like Jeb and Billy Bob. Their camaro's all used to run low 13's and do 180 mph before "the big accident."
"The Big Accident" usually not only destroys their cars, but also all photographs, and friends memories' that would serve to support the existance of such a car. We've all met that guy.

tpi_roc

I am that guy.

kvu

getting 400 ponies w/ a 305 would not be very hard.Yes it'll cost more than a 350.My rule of thumb is anything but a 350.Everybody and thier grandma has one.I like to be original.I have an article with a lg4 making 325hp.Thats with bolt ons and a cam. I would'nt go with the afr heads though.World products has a great set of heads designed for the 305.They're set at a great price too.Then for a cam I would get an extreme energy in the 268-272 duration range.Having a 305 roller block would let you run a hotter cam too.I've heard good result with the 335 stroker setup.Get a 52mm throttle body and a k&n.Put that thermo coating on the pistons and valves.For 400 hp yo'll need around 10:1 compression.The gapless rings would help.Exhaust:I would go with tri-y headders,random technology cat,a single 3in mandrel bent catback to a borla xr-1 muffler with a single 3 in tailpipe opening up to 4 inch tip.I could go on all day.But yes a 305 can make 400 hp.You will have to have a TUNED chip if you go the f.i. route.

BONES LB9

i had those same dreams till my 305 bit the dirt but i would highly suggest makin a ram air set-up. it makes a hugh difference on the beltway.

berlinetta85

Bottom line for 305 performance is "AIR FLOW", get that thing breathing and you'll be flying!!!

tpi_roc

This thread is getting rediculous.

berlinetta85

I think modding out a 305 is ballsy... It's not common which makes it pretty cool. I like seeing stuff like that. Making an underdog perform like a champ. That's gusto if you ask me.

Anyone who disagrees needs to get run over by my car :-)

super83Z

if you really want to mod an underdog get a mid-late 70's 400 man those things were dogs. That is what I did gotta love the underdog!

Beast5spdGTA

About being that guy. DON'T JUDGE YOUR SPEED BY CARS YOU BEAT ON THE STREETS OR WORSE LOST TO BY A MARGIN.
I've beaten a supra TT(14.97) on timeslips by over .5 sec in my 305, I could also say I've beaten a Z06(mid 14s) as well. Does that make my 305 a 12 second car? Hell NO. Those guys just couldn't drive worth sh*t.

14.3 @ 96.8 mph at some elevation (lebanon valley, NY) stock heads and no custom chip.

Ed Maher

ALMOST as bad as the average TBI board post :P

iroc22

Yeah because they all have high dreams about things (usually not realistic, but hey to each his own) and all the anti-TBIer's come on there and gang up on the dudes. I've always said 'if you dont have anything good to say, don't say it'.
Just a FYI while Im at it, I'll prolly only be a TBIer for a little bit longer, my car is up for sale.

K here my 2 cents on this. A 305 will not make 400hp N/A and be streetable at the same time. If you wonder why the Mustang crowd can do it with a 302, it's because it has larger bores with more piston surface area that creates a more efficient combustion, increasing the horsepower. Plus with the larger bore you can run larger valves which increases the intake charge and helps expel the exhaust gases quicker; which will in turn again increase horsepower.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

goddamn ford!!.....what about if i could get my hands on a 68 69 302 and put a tpi type setup on it?...if i remeber correctly they have a 4 in bore and a 3 inch stroke...(327 block and 283 crank corect)
my grandpa has a 68 z28 with a dz302 and its at 425 horse so that motor has the potential...

my 5spd lb9 is 230 horse and 300 ft pounds..

kvu

I would have no problem getting 400 flywheel hp from a 305 sbc.

tpi_roc

Then again you're g0d.

Bort62

TURBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO@@!!!



WEEEEEEEEE!


This **** is over the TOP LOL.


All You need is a 3/4 RACIN CAMSHAFT!

That and a 58mm TB w/ Airfoil.

hectorsn

Well if you're going to compare a 305 SBC to a 302 SBF then compare a LS1 to a SBC. The 346 ci LS1 has smaller bores than the 350 SBC but I don't see them making any less power with a smaller bore. You can talk theory til you can't talk it no more but until you build it and prove it can be done or are disproven you haven't done anything more than talk. You want to build a 400 HP NA 305, you can. It's about getting the right combination of parts. Find yourself a good engine builder that does a lot of work on "class" engines. There will be some things that can be done to a street engine and some things that can't but ultimately I think you can achieve the goal. Don't expect it to be easy and the tuning required to the ecm will be extensive and NO, it won't idle like a stocker or be extremely polite on the street. But anyone who says they have a "streetable" 400 HP NA 302 SBF is either stretching the term quite a bit or doesn't consider N2O to be forced induction.

I will say that a supercharger is the way to go. If anything happens to the 305 you can just add it to the next engine, whatever size it may be.

iroc22

Right because a 0.10" is the same as comparing a 0.264" difference .

Ok post your dyno sheet of your 400hp 305 please.

You don't build your own engines? uhhh....

tpi_roc

My briggs and straton makes 634hp and 712tq at the rear wheels naturally aspirated, on 32 octane and 5:1 compression, It has "202" heads and cold air intake, open exhaust port without even headers. I'm putting altezas on it tonight.




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