Gruvin84SS

What would be the cheapest and most effecient way to swap over a carbed monte carlo SS to the Holley stealth ram. What all would you use and why? If you could add prices that would be great. A friend of mine who is a college student wants to do this and he has the ole college budget.

Guest

I'd get a complete TPI setup (SD would be first choice) and then sell the TPI manifold, replace it with the stealth ram, and maybe pick up an aftermarket harness because the Camaro one is pretty long. Or you could shorten the wires if the factory harness is in decent enough shape.

Getting the sensor parts individually will just nickel and dime you to death. Better to get the whole deal used and go from there.

mcss383

ttt!

cfabe

Okay, here's how I'd go about the project.

You're probably going to want to use a speed density setup to get rid of the maf sensor, which is expensive and you have to be able to hook it into the air intake, which would be problematic on a monte. You'll have to get into chip tuning if this is anything more then a stock motor (to take advantage of the stealth ram, it should be more then stock)

The most important thing is to get your hands on a wiring harness. The factory ones are scarce, you can get one from painless for about $250.

The ecms are available all day long on ebay for about $40-50.

Sensor wise you'll need a MAP sensor , coolant temp sensor, ait temp sensor, and knock sensor. You should be able to get all the sensors new at the parts store for under $100 total.

You'll have to fabricate the fuel system from scratch, I'd use an external inline pump.

You'll need to get injectors, you buy them new or used, get the same style that they use on tpi motors.

SATURN5

I'll add that you can also use a fuel tank from a 86-88 FI Monte or a GN tank, just replace the pump with one that will match your needs. As far as fuel lines you have to either rework a set of factory GN lines or build a set from scratch. I used a set from a 88 GTA and adjusted them as needed. I would go with a painless harness unless you can find a complete unhacked harness. With the factory harness you get fan control and emissions but is harder to install. cheers, Bob

TPI Monte SS

Guys, guys, guys. Not that I'm a wizard or anything (cause I'm far from it) but I have to dispel a few rumors here.

1- A Factory F-body harness is a perfect length to use in a Monte engine bay, since they are the same size. I even used stock replacement upper and lower radiator hoses for an IROC when I did my swap. The only thing we had to do was cut a larger hole in the firewall to run the harness through. I found my complete motor and harness in a totalled '87 IROC that was advertised in the Want Ad Press. Total cost - $500. That's a complete engine from intake to oil pan, all wiring for the car, dual electric fans, all emissions stuff, brackets, sensors, etc.

2- Fabbing fuel lines was the biggest pain in the ***, but mounting a fuel pump in the tank is no problem. Purchasing an '85-'88 FI V6 Monte tank and sending unit is the easiest way, and then all that is necessary is installing a high-pressure TPI pump.

3- We went around a bit on this on the Monte List, and technically the only "legal" way to swap in a TPI motor is to keep all the emissions functions intact, so the AIR pump, EGR, Charcoal Canister, etc. all need to stay functional. My setup is as legal as it can be, I can plug the scantool into my ALDL port, and scan it as an '87 IROC. Everything works as it should, its just not in an F-body anymore.

Here's a pic of my completed setup -

PS- The intake ductwork is '87 Trans Am parts (run upside down from the usual way), with the MAF sensor mounted inline.

Also check my site for some pics of the transformation at www.bowtiepower.com/hearttransplant.html

cfabe

About the fuel lines, I've dont this swap on both my trans am and my 82 s-10 blazer 4x4 w/305 v8, on the trans am I used the stock line (carb setup) and mounted the pump back by the tank. On the blazer I fabricated fuel lines (really not that hard in my opinion) with 3/8 steel line from the parts store. The blazer got a ford inline pump (i think i asked for 89 f-150 w/351) that works great and is much quieter then the holley pump I got with the tpi setup for the trans am. I'm running a painless harness because that's what I got with the setup the first time I bought one, but it lacks all the emissoins stuff (it might have egr but none of the air stuff). Unfortunately I dont have any monte-specific knowledge.

What I was trying to get at in my original post is if you just need to get the motor running, want to use the stealth ram, and dont need all the emissions parts (air and egr and whatnot) then you can go with just buying the parts you need, because all you need is the stealth ram, the sensors, a throttle body, injectors, and the ecm/harness. If you need all the emissions stuff then you might look at buying the complete setup and then selling the parts you dont need on ebay (I made a killing on most of a tpi setup I sold as individual parts, more then I ever expected).

TPI Monte SS

I understand, I just said my piece because I live in New Jersey, where we have strict emissions regulations. I built my car to be reliable, and it has been. If my daily driver is ever out of comission, I have no fear of taking the SS to work in a pinch. No worries when I have to put her on the dyno next year for another e-check.

Guest

The F-body harness is longer, like I said. The G-body harness goes under the AC box and straight through the firewall, while the F-body harness ventures over, around the AC box, along the fenderwell, through the fender and through the side of the car where the kick panel is. I had the two sitting one next to another, then I had the F-body harness in the car and it was definitely longer. Longer enough that I was looking at it trying to figure out where to stuff the extra wire.

SATURN5

The reason I suggested getting a tank is that a FI tank is baffled, where a carb tank more often than not isnt. Sucking air rather than fuel is a bad thing...

Heres how I would go about this if this was me.

1. Get a complete TPI set up, the whole smash. MAF is ok if you plan to stay "fairly" stock, nothin wrong with a MAF just that it has its limitations for airflow with larger engines. Otherwise I would go with a SD setup. And like madmax suggested you have a intake to resell.

2. Get a FI fuel tank, hanger/sending unit and in tank pump. As far as lines, since the HSR needs custom lines anyhow I would run to 3/8" steel lines from the tank to the front up the drivers side of the frame. Make up rubber lines as needed to the fuel rails.

3. Harness... depends on what your area requires. With emissions a factory harness is the best bet, Painless may offer a complete harness for emissions and electric fan control but I am not sure. If you are not worried about emissions, (the HSR is illegal anyhow since it lacks EGR) I would go with a Painless harness.

4. Radiator... use either the stock, or better yet a F-body unit is a bolt in, also you can use the dual fans. I believe you will need to space the bottom mount of the fan housing a bit. The stock hoses for a F-body work fine.

5. Transmission, I guessing you will stay with the 200-R4, may need to change the TV cable, I am running a T-10, more info with this swap if you need, just ask.

6. Grab the stock throttle cable from the TPI car. Its a direct swap for the G-body cable.

That for the most part covers what you will need to swap a Monte over to TPI, any questions just holler. cheers, Bob

Nonni

...don´t I need another runners for the stealth ram or does it connect straight to the plenum?

Can the OEM plenum support 400 sbc?

Nonni

cfabe

nonni, the stealth ram is a complete intake setup, all you have to supply is the injectors and the throttle body. The OEM TPI setup will be a severe flow limitation on a 400.

tpi monte, We've got emissions where I live in ohio too, but it's just a sniffer test. As long as you have a cat and pass the sniffer for HC and CO, they pass the car. I'm going to be trying to pass it with my stealthram 350 with no emissions controls other then a cat and proper tuning.

Gruvin84SS

Saturns wrote:Painless harness's have fan control and an emissions kit that will make them street legal. They have an O.E. # and are legal in California. It is a basic stock replacement except that it has no under dash hook-ups. The painless harness works well in a monte and installs fast(the extra long is about a foot too long but it makes it so that you have plenty of wiring for proper routing to avoid the old header burned wires our cars are famous for. I was able to install my computer in its stock location due to the extra length as well. Not to mention that it is all new wire. What i found from my experience.

SATURN5

I started with a MAF harness from a 88 GTA. I repinned it to work with a '749 SyTy ECM. Also used the entire engine harness from the GTA and adapted the GTA harness to the 87 Monte SS dash harness/dash I swapped in. I mounted the ECM in the glovebox horzontally on an aluminum plate I pop riveted in. With Craig Moate's memcal adapter inplace swapping chips is a snap. I am not running any heat, A/C so I had the room..

Gruvin84SS

Saturn5,

Sounds like a heck of a setup. I have been using the Craig moates software to data log what my car has been doing and I am gonna get the craig moates adapter for the prom as well. I thought about mounting the ECM behind the glove box and just have a door(remove the back half of the box) for easy access but decided to put in factory location.

SATURN5

With the '749 I use Andy Whittaker's FreeScan. Works great, even has a virtual dash cluster. I want to eventually boost this puppy with a blower/turbo and the SyTy code has all the bells for boost. It's been a project, used as much factory parts as I could, being a budget frame up rebop, should have everything back together by July 4th...

Gruvin84SS

Saturn5,

Definately someone i need to keep in mind for future refernence. I am sure you could point me in the right direction for my next project which is a Monte carlo LS "syclone sleeper" basicly looking to run a syclone 4.3 setup in an 86-88 LS monte.