Dscott

wanting to prep my 89 for some mild (Dexter Day) track Days at Mosport.....anyone doing this?

Doug Phillips

I have been doing autocrossing, Solosprint and lapping events for a few years. Started in a 97 Z28 hardtop with some suspension work and swappedto the race car last year.

I am now doing a few GT Sprint race events at Mosport, the last of the season this weekend.

You should have a blast.

Dscott

So in the lapping events did you have to have a helmet, firesuit, proper seatbelts etc....does the car have to have its drainplugs wired, glass taped etc???....thanks doug

Doug Phillips

It depends on what rules the club uses but most lapping days only require that you make sure you have lots of brake pad and changed the fluid.

You should not be using a harness without a rollbar or cage.

Helmet is a must, 2000 or newer now, in 2011 you need a 2005 or 2010 helmet.

Cotten long sleeved shirt is recommended and decent shoes for heal and tow.

Firesuit is only if you start running a caged race car.

I may have a decent suspension for sale this winter, PM me if you need anything.

If you have not been on any track before, I would not recommend your first day be at the Mosport GP track. There are excellent schools and lapping days at the Development track next door.

Dscott

I ran the Superbike circuit there many times many moons ago but have never been on it in its current (grand) state......just want to have some fun with this car, I have an ex Winston Cup car I want to fix up for a hard core track day car too.....its hard to find out who puts the events on.....I'll pm you about the suspension. thx doug

Doug Phillips

The marshals web site is good as it shows you all track days and who is running it. You then have to find the contact ifor for the organiser.

http://www.motorsportmarshalling.on.ca/

Many events get posted in the CASC forums here.

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/

Do the race school in the spring and get a licence, then you have access to the Mosport Test and Tune days on race Fridays for only $225.

I have a friend running a converted CASCAR.

Dscott

thanks for the links.....!

George

I hear a lot of people saying Dexter ain't that great - too expensive and too many dentists and lawyers there can't drive worth ****.

You should not be using a race seat without a rollbar or cage either in case you were thinking of installing one.

I'd get some kind of neck brace too.

Basic mods to the car could begin with Eibach Prokit, Koni Yellows, Subframe Connectors, Adjustable Panhard, Lower Control Arms and Relocation Brackets, Stainless Braided Brake Hoses, remove dust shields from front brakes, Ford 550* Brake Fliud, some kind of good pads, Steering Brace and set of decent tyres.

Dscott

thanks for the set up tips!....thats basically what I was going to do, wasnt sure what to do on the shocks, thanks.....do you have that set up in your car?....it would prob work pretty good on the street and track with that set up.

so what would you do with the seat belts?.....I might be open to putting a roll bar in but not a cage it will always be first and formost a street car with full interior and A/C, I got the Cup car for hardcore.....I was thinking about some aftermarket sport seats (two of course) and some decent belts. thanks again doug

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Check out www.tfbm.org

A lot of the members are into track/road racing.

Don't forget www.ccfbg.com best darn club there is.

George

Yeah, what I described is pretty much the setup that I have.

Right now I still have the stock iron J-65 four wheel disk brakes which aren’t the greatest and tend to fade on short tight tracks. Around MIR though, the only place it fades is coming into 5A and after that you don’t need them much on that track.

Koni Yellows are pretty good but quite harsh on the crap roads around Toronto - they’re OK on good roads though.

For track I run 3 turns on the front struts.

Street is 0 to ½ turns on the front depending on road condition.

Rear shocks are set to full soft.

Prokit springs are something like 720 pounds linear fronts with progressive rears but I can’t remember the rear rates.

Thirdgens work best with soft rear suspension settings so keep that in mind when ordering springs. Even people running 1050 front are running softer rear springs. You can research that in more detail when deciding what to get but it’s an issue to be aware of.

I can tell you that the Eibach Prokit is pretty good for a street / track compromise though.

Eibach Sportlines are not generally considered to be a good choice for best handling.

I’m running 17x9.5 rims with 275/40/17 tyres front and back. A sixteen inch tyre might be cheaper though and just as good depending on the compound.

Ronal Firehawk rims are too heavy and limit the size of front brake upgrades however most people I talk to are saying that the 1LE front brake setup is adequate for road racing so I might just go with 1LE because it will fit the Ronals.

Alignment is neg, 1.5 camber, 0 toe and I can’t remember caster right now.

Some kind of aftermarket sport seat would be nice but what you don’t want (without a cage or bar) is something like a full race seat which will keep you sitting upright in the event of a rollover because that way the roof comes down on your head..lol

I was able to cinch the belts tight in my 83TA but I think the newer ones are different and don’t work like that anymore but there’s something called a cg-lock which will cinch the newer belts.

It gets a bit iffy when you start talking about cage, harness and race seats because that’s what you should have for the track but a caged care is unsafe on the road unless you wear a helmet all the time. Harness and race seat is unsafe at the track unless you have a cage or roll bar.

For subframe connectors I’d suggest Spohn tubular because they are perimeter design and tuck up out of the way plus you can tack them along the rocker panels for extra rigidity. You pretty much have to have SFCs on a thirdgen. Steering brace (wonder bar) is a good idea too because in high load applications the cars tend to develop cracks around where the steering box mounts.

www.frrax.com is a good site for road race information.

Doug Phillips

Only one road racer in there.

George

You aren't a member at that club or did they look at your laptimes from last weekend and give you a free lifetime membership..lol

Hard to say if any of the local f-body clubs are orientated toward racing anymore; seems these days all of them are more about car shows, doughnut shops and sim racing.

Years ago tfbm used to attend at OMSC lap days but most of them seem to have got too old for that now..lol I guess one thing in their favour though is that they have CASC affiliation if anyone needed a basic competition license.

Doug Phillips

Hey like you are a member? LOL

I never said I was a member, I said I was in there.

And I would say I am pretty old but stupid enough to race. Now sim sex, that would be something!!

Dscott

thanks for the great info and insight got any pics of your car?

Doug Phillips

George

Doug Phillips

Try Apex Driving School.

Doug Phillips

Love the look of Ed's AMX!

George

More AMX and the usual Mosport weather..lol

Dscott

typical Mosport weather lol......u aint kiddin!!!!...... in the above pics is that a lapping session or an actual race?....if its a race what class do you run in?......you have a Trans Am too?.....was that the Barc meet in the spring?.....I lurked around the pits there was lots of pretty cool cars there (Im only a half an hour away)......one red TR7 with a chevy v8 and and a little Ford powered pick up that some guy working on the car tried to tell me it was an ex Craftsman Truck but it wasnt.....still cool.

George

That red TR7 is one loud bastard..lol

Black Camaro is GT4 race from last weekend - that's Doug's car - he started racing this year - before that was running lap days and also that micky mouse **** where they chase cones around parking lots..lol

Other pictures are from lap days.

So many times it's raining at the track and 5 miles down Waverly the sun is shining..lol

George

We were at this one too.

White pickup looks nice - wonder if it would haul a thirdgen plus trailer etc. - maybe not..lol

Dscott

some great shots.....so with the current state of tune with your car what other cars do you end up running against, running similar lap times?....fox body's? other F bodies? stock vettes?
doug

Doug Phillips

The nice thing about the GT Sprints is there are no rules for car prep, just for safety. The cars are classed in GT1 through GT6 based on lap times so a class can have a very wide range of cars running together.

GT4 times at Mosport are between 1:36 and 1:41.

GT1 cars typically run low 1:20s and there are sub 1:20 cars.

GT6 cars are running high 1:40s.

If you run a lap faster than the class bracket time, you are penalized one lap.

My car has run 1:35.5 with the previous driver. My best time is a 1:39.5 after 3 weekends so I am still behind the car. All of my time to be made up is in cornering speeds and brake zones.

The biggest improvement a new person can make is to the driver. I have 2 friends that share a converted CASCAR. There is a 8 second difference in their lap times.

George

Why, I could probably show them a few things..lol

Doug Phillips

LOL... not you dumbass, the other guys here.

Did I tell you that one of the instructors is the guy that hit me in 5b and was blocking on the back straight. Of course, I was having trouble with grip that day. LOL

Dscott

so have all your susp mods made a big difference in the car....does the rearend feel more planted in fast turns?

where would you go in the GTA to get some SFC's installed?.....maybe someone whos actually put a set on before.....the rest of the LCA's, PH bar, STB and shocks etc I'll do myself in the pretty near future....it already has a Pro Kit....Im interested in tightening up the structure to make it a better street car.....what part made the biggest difference in the handling and dont say the driver.

Dscott

thats a good way of classifing the cars.....

what kind of times can the Cascar run?
does it still have the spec Cascar brakes?

Dscott

heres a pic of mine, pro kit, all 4 Extreme stop drilled and slotted rotors, wagner carbon metallic pads, 245 ZR50 16 Riken Raptor's

George

Koni Yellows, Prokit, SFCs, Adjustable LCAs and Relo-Brackets, Adjustable Panhard, Poly Endlinks all went on at once so difficult to say which made the biggest difference but the total effect was night and day.

Didn't have enough rubber so added 275/40/17 BFG KDW tyres on all four corners - that made another huge difference.

Back end is very solid through corner 8 at MIR and the car is neutral everywhere else round there as well so the handling is quite confident at that track - no nasty surprises.

Short tight tracks like Dungville and the DDT the car has a touch of understeer but no big problem and I'd rather have it set up for MIR because mistakes there are more serious.

I tried autocross a few times but the car didn't want to rotate and I had to throw it around a bit which is not fast but I don't care about autocross anyway so it doesn't matter.

Not sure who I'd get to do subframes now - guy who did mine is gone. It has to be someone who has installed them before and knows what he's doing because it can really **** up the car if done wrong - suspension has to be loaded otherwise you weld a bend into the car.

Looking at the picture of your car it seems to have a good stance as is - I wouldn't want to make it any lower.

I'd suggest getting adjustable panhard and adjustable LCAs so you can true it up if need be. On a lowered car the rear moves slightly to one side so your Prokit might have shifted it - unless it was crooked from the factory and the lowering corrected it..lol

Steel braded brake hoses made a noticeable difference as did the steering brace. Your IROC probably has a factory steering brace.

Next time you buy rotors don't bother with the drilled ones - the holes just remove area from the rotor surface and provide another place for cracks to start. Drilled rotors were made so that gas from the pads could escape and therefore improve braking - gassing out hasn't been a problem with friction material for about 30 years or more - modern pads don't need drilled rotors.

Poly end links and poly sway bar bushing are cheap and tighten it up a bit.

You'll have to decide on poly or rod end for the panhard and lca. Mine are poly and I hav'nt had any bind. Not sure what I'd get if I had to replace them - wear was an issue with the rod ends but there are boot setups you can get which keep the dirt out and extend the rod life. You can also get a poly/rod combo on each part so probably best to read up on it and make a decision.

Edit:

And pack the front bearings with some kind of high heat grease. I use the red synthetic stuff - can't remember the name but I got it from some race place in Mississaga near the QEW. Doug probably knows the shop name, they sell helmets, seats and other ****.

George

Yeah, those guys don't like getting raped up the back straight by a SBC 383..lol

Dscott

Solid in 8?....awesome!....thats what Im looking for

Yeah Im good with the stance too, its low enough....it is primarily a street car.

Adjustable PH and LCA's.....I was going to pony up and go with the adjustables but how would you know if the car is crooked?, at a 4 wheel alignment shop?

Steel braided brake lines are def on the list.....pretty much goes without saying IMO...did you get the Earls or the Russels?.....the car has a wonderbar

I spoke with the guy who makes the rotors ( they're made in Toronto) he said the holes make for an extremly cool running rotor so very little if any fade.....so much so that he doesnt reccomend ceramic pads....you cant build enough heat with them....at least on the street.

Almost def go with poly rod ends.....it is a street car after all.....arnt the rod ends alot noisyer?.....big question.....how would you know if your suspension has bind?.......do you put the car on jackstands take the springs and shocks out and jack the rearend up and down from the rearend centresection and see if it raises and lowers freely??

do you have drop spindles up front?

do you run an aftermarket torque arm? do you run the stock oil pan or an accusump?

Dscott

apparently theres an "apex" track day scheduled for this wed oct 21 on the Mosport big track...... although its not listed on the "full schedule" page of the tracks website.....anyone going? supposed to be a nice day......Im going to go check it out....doug

PF Flyer

...been doing this stuff since Y2K down here in the states. I have a few people that run up that way, but the closest I've been is Watkins Glen.

Mine is a '87 Trans Am that is setup as an American Sedan (SCCA).



850 front springs / 175 rears
1LE front brake conversion running Hawk DTC60 pads
mild 350 with a 5 speed turning a 9 bolt BW

Dscott

looking good......how does the TA do against the Mustangs in AS?......how did you like the Glen?.....Its another natural terrian racecourse like Mosport......Id love to go there.

George

Mine was set up at an alignment shop.

Got the Earls hoses.

Pretty much everyone I know uses blank rotors for the reasons I mentioned but for occasional use the ones you have should be OK - just keep an eye on them for cracks. You can read up on the rotor issue and decide when you need new ones. It's an issue that's out there - I just mentioned it so you'd know if you didn't already. I'm not sold on the drilling holes in the rotors for cooling idea and I think there's some issue with drilling as opposed to having the holes cast right in there which I think is how
the high end ones are made. (cast)

Yeah, rod ends are rougher on the street and may wear quickly. I got poly/poly for street. You can get poly/rod combo as a compromise. I'm probably through trying to half *** my road car into a track car so next move, if it happens, will be a dedicated race car - christ knows where I'm going to store it though..lol

Bind occurs from lateral forces like body roll in corners so jacking the suspension up and down won't tell you much. The spherical rod end allows for left and right lateral movement so they don't bind.

I guess what happens is that when the suspension binds it momentarily stops working and bad things could occur mid corner on a bump or whatever. I've never experienced LCA bind that I know of but I keep the LCAs pretty well greased.

No drop spindles - Prokit doesn't lower enough to need them.

I still need an AM torque arm to correct my pinion angle.

Plan was to get an oil accumulator but that didn't happen. I'm running the stock pan that came with my ZZ4 crate and just overfill it a bit.

Doug Phillips

The CASCAR runs 1:43 with the owner and 1:35 with the guy that set it up. Seat time is everything. LOL

For SFC I would just take it to CSC Racing in Newmarket. Talk to Ralph there. He built most of the Players cages. I have a cage so it is already tied together but I spoke to him about adding bars down the channel like George was suggesting. He would use his own stock so no need to buy aftermarket. Price will be good. Of course he can do a rollbar or cage for you also and set you up with drivers safety gear.

For the track I would use blanks. Stock brakes are OK if you pick the right pad. You might want to swap out to a full race pad at the track. A compomise tire would be the TOYO 888s, semi r-compound but street legal so you can change them at home. Good in the rain also.

I have a CANTON pan.

Nice TA. What times at the Glen? I hope to get there for a Vintage weekend next year. Make the trip to Mosport for a GT Sprint weekend. You will have a blast.

George

CSC quoted me something like 600 to put in a 1/2 cage a few years ago which seemed like a good price for just dropping off the car and having them do all the work.

I was going to edit my previous post to mention them but I went to get a beer and forgot..lol

Too bad Straight Line Racing is gone - they moved from Toronto to Whitby and then went under but not because the shop wasn't good.

I expect there's other people that can do them but if I had to get SFCs done again I'd be confident about using CSC.

George

You don't by any chance tow that with a green pickup do you - just wondering if I've seen it before.

Dscott

I'll give them a call...thanks

Dscott

Called CSC spoke to Ralph......said I would have to buy a kit for SFC's he would not fabricate one but he would install one....then I asked if he had a 4 post lift as alll the SFC manufactures insist you use one when installing as opposed to a 2 post.....said he only has a 2 post.....so struck out there......heck I have a 2 post lift.....the garage where I get my personal vehicles fixed has a 4 post lift, my guy said he'd love to do it but he wasnt too confident in his welding skills, he asked me if I wanted to do the welding when on his lift I said no.....my other buddy is an ace welder, I'll see if I can make that happen.

my set up....

George

Nice shop.

It can be done w/out using a drive on lift but probably better use one anyway.

George

That's odd, my sig pic showed up for some reason in that last post - usually it doesn't work on this site..lol

PF Flyer

The green pickup is gone, I have to redo the sig, but it did have the tow duty for several years until I picked up it's replacement.

The 'Glen' is my favorite track. It's history, it's length, it elevation changes, everything.

George

Yeah, that's what I like about Mosport - history, long fast track with elevation changes plus I been going there since the 70s - saw most of the F1 and CanAm races there and I don't think I ever paid to get in..lol

Dscott

hey are any of you guys running a trunk mount battery?.....is it even advisable for a street car seeing the battery would actually be in the passenger compartment?

George

I wouldn't bother with it myself on a street/track car because it's more work than it's worth - race car would be a different story though.

Dscott

James Hunt......cool!......RIP

I miss him and Murray on the F1 telecasts....

"And DeCeaseris who has absolutely no business being in Formula One......."

those two were funny....

Doug Phillips

Like George said, do not waste your time or money moving the battery on a street car.

I have mine mounted in the passenger side rear seat area.