flakeh

I have an 89 2.8 v6 firebird I bought to do an engine swap in. I plan on building a 3.1/3.4v6 (Gas is expensive) but due do the year, I have to have AIR, emissions/smog and a full exhaust with cat and muffler. I know a guy with a 87 2.8v6 parts car with no title. Would I be able to take his VIN's, put em on my car and then re-register it as a 87? Or would it make it a 09 car since thats when it was registered? Would I need to get a whole new title for it? How do I do that?

Kevman

Yes and no... I've looked into it already, and it's a major PITA... You have to go through the same nightmare of safety'ing and doing all that paperwork you did for your current car, aswell as finding every vin # and changing it with the '87 number.. Plus now with the Ministry of enviroment guys running around, they ticket you for emisions stuff missing on that year of engine (3.4 being 93-95).

I have a 350 I wanted to put in, and it's just an emissions nightmare..


Oh yea, and that illegal part.. Now if you had an '87 Trans Am completely rusted out, and a 1987 Firebird, you can switch those vin numbers... We did it on a '76 Torino, it was rusted it out beyond belief, we picked up a car from Oklahoma, restamped every vin # and we were able to have it changed it over.. But going from '89 - '87 would raise some flags... Government sucks, eh?

flakeh

Well right now the 89 isn't registered yet. I still haven't gotten around to getting it appraised either since thats 150$ I don't have. Since its not even registered in my name yet, I think I might still be able to get away with it. How many VIN's are on one car? I know both doors and on the dash, but anywhere else?

Now, Say the car doesn't have a title. How can I register it? Even if its a real bitch to do, if it gets me past all these emission laws I'll do it.

Kevin, you edited your post at 4:54 and it made me smile.

Kevman

Well from what I've read into, you can only legally do it if the car is the same year, those emmisions guys are pretty smart... Usually..

You may not have to pay $150, if you go to a car dealership, one that knows your family, they can write up a dealer-form for the car, we just did it on our Camaro, The form is free, you just get him to put the value as $500, and you can save on that...

flakeh

Think I could swap the vin's, then have the dealer write it up? I know a mechanic who owns a shop that also sells used cars. He's known my family for years....

I shoulda just bought an 87...Oh well...I'll make all this work out, even if it takes a few years.

89junkyardgta

I'm a little confused. Are you talking about doing a later 3.1/3.4 V6 swap that came without the A.I.R pump into your 89? From what I understand, you should be able to do the swap with no issues, just throw a A.I.R pump and manifolds/AIR headers on. Now, I realize that a pump is a PITA, but, it might be easier than everything else you are talking about. Now, as far as regs go, I'm not sure and I'm not meaning to undermine Kevin, but as far as I know, displacement doesn't matter. As long as your 1989 car has all of the emissions stuff that a 1989 Firebird did and can pass the emissions that the VIN states it should (VIN number has the displacement info in it), you should be ok. My truck with a 355 in it passed emissions all the time, even though it was being tested as a 305. Otherwise, you could try to get it registered as a hotrod, but I am pretty sure that is another load of red tape.


There are VIN's everywhere on these cars. If the car is original, every body panel has a VIN sticker on it. Fenders, doors, bumpers, hood, trunk, and that's only the ones I've found...there could be more. Now, how many people actually know that and would bother to check is something entirely different. If you wanted to do swap, I would argue you could probably do it by flipping the dash tag and the rad cradle tag (metal) along with the door tags (sticker) and you would probably be ok. I don't know what is involved in re-registering a car, but it all depends why there is no title. If its a car from the wreckers, you can get it re-registered, but it has to go through a ton of stuff to get it back, and it will always have a salvage title. If the ownership is just lost, just head to the MTO, say you are trying to buy the car and the owner lost the title, get the new title and a used vehicle package, and then everything goes as normal.

And you are going to have to have emissions stuff anyway, regardless of the year. The MTO can ticket ANY car that does not have all of the factory emissions components. So, lets say you have a 1980 Firebird. That Firebird came with catalytic converters, vapour canister and PCV valve. Now, you would never have to e-test that car, however, if the MTO is blitzing and pulls you over, if you are missing ANY of those components, you will be ticketed. And of all of the emissions components that the third gens have, the only one that is a horsepower cost is the A.I.R pump. A good, hi-flow cat costs only a couple of horsepower.

Hope this helps.

flakeh

All that helped a ton. Sorry for the confusion, but by emissions i meant the E-test. I wanna swap VIN's so i can get away with a heavily modified exhaust (duals w/glasspacks no "muffler") and a carburetor which probably won't pass the E-test.

89junkyardgta

Well, as long as the emissions are clean, they're clean, regardless of what engine they come from. As long as they meet the spec for the car, which is dicated by the VIN. Don't bother with duals for a little 6, you're going to KILL bottom end torque, and it will be a major PITA to run. Oh, it can and has been done, but I wouldn't for a V6...its just not needed. I would think a nice 3 inch single pipe with a nice big cat and you'll be good to go. I'm not sure how the powers that be view muffler deletes. The 'guvment' will probably frown on the carb idea, stick with the FI. I would *guess* you will be able to make more efficient power with the FI, but its up for debate. It will definitely make your life easier to stick with the FI, and I know Edelbrock does make some cams and headers for the MPFI V6's. And they are emissions legal too.

Kevman

Read this article, it'll make you change your mind about not running AIR pump, cat, and other mods...

http://www.emckemptville.ca/20090730/news/Murphy's+Law+rears+its+large+head+during+vehicle+stops

89junkyardgta

Yeah, that's the deal. I don't agree with the law, but it is what it is. Are they sure you can get a ticket for an air cleaner?? If so, that's retarded, as cold air induction helps make more hp with the same fuel, so why would that be considered bad? I would fight that one in court, for sure. The cats and vapour can, however, do actually DO something, so that's not so bad. Thanks for the posting.

MFaust89

i read the whole article that Kevman has on his reply. i find it funny how can the goverment pick on cars that are used only in summer time, special muscles. they forgot where those cars and parts are made. I still wonder why the piece of **** crown vic still has a v8!!! always though they would change one day to a v6 turbo/supercharge to reduce emitions. im sure cars are not the only polution in north america. We should look at those trains and trucks crossing north america.. diesel is much worse than gas!!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Actually....While there is a lot of black smoke coming out of older diesels and the big trucks & trains, it is not a pollutant.

Yes....Its nasty to see & smells bad, but it do not contribute to the global pollution, as you'd think they do.

89junkyardgta

Right...mostly. The black stuff that comes out of the diesels is not going to have any effect on global warming, (it might actually reverse it somewhat by blocking out sunlight), however, it does have human health implications as the particulates in the exhaust get inhaled into the lungs, where the get stuck. Diesel: Better the for planet, bad for your lungs.

I believe that they are starting to look at doing emissions testing for diesels as well. And any car (even those lowly Hondas) missing emissions equipment can get ticketed. I am sure the import guys have had their fair share of roadside inspections, however, it does seem that the older cars should get some sort of exemption or different legislation applied to them as they are only driven a few thousand km a year in many cases. But I think that is where the 'hotrod' portion of the legislation comes in. I'm not quite sure how it works, but I don't think its too difficult to do.

6speedIROC

iTrader: (3)

That friggin sucks with the MOE. What a BS way to get enthuiasts!