anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I can't believe this one is still going on.

Its one thing to be a proud owner and like something more than the other, but sheer ignorance doesn't win any races, or any respect at the track. As much as I may agree to hate imports because of the way they look, sound, and pita to work on, I don't go slamming cars that run 12 seconds easy. Noone puts up with that on race day. Not even the old timers, no matter how set on their ways.

Ugly, anoying, bright colored, silly... whatever. They go pretty fast, they win races, and they'd prolly kick most of your butts.
I'd never build one, but I can tell ya when all my buddies in our rear wheel drive 450+ hp cars where spinning out last week, these kids were pulling mid to low 12's around 110mph. wtf.

Flame me all ya want. I wanna seeya beat me. But seriously,
next time you pull yer 15 second thirdgen upto the tree, ya better check out who your running against. Ya might just loose to a honda.

-- Joe

TBurke

Point well taken. However, spinning the front wheels is just plain whack. But I built my 3rd gen in the early 90's with TPI. I got a whole bunch of crap from the carbed guys. Until they went for a ride.

My own opinion: I'd rather smoke the rears in a 14 second car than do a 13 in a front driver.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No argument there. Like I said, I don't like those cars..


I just find it anoying at best when people on here in high school with 15-16 second cars pass judgement on others hard work. Its one thing to run a 16 second stock honda, thats just plain silly. But a 12 second 4 banger is impressive (long as its got 4 wheels and a windshield )..

-- Joe

TBurke

I agree it takes big work to put those cars in the 12's or your typical daily driver TPI.

I used to get dogged by the older car guys that were running lumpy cam high rise intake, 4:10s with like a 3500 stall converter.

Don't get me wrong, I love that stuff 2 but I was killing these guys. I invested in AFR heads while they thought camel humps rule. My street car did 13.0 on street tires just as I drove it. No track tune or adjusting air pressure in the tires, disconnecting belts, exhaust and sway bar.

I'm sure I could have done better but I had a **** load of fun. That is the whole point, Wheter it is a Honda/Vette/or a 32' Ford
run the hell out of it.

Mark A Shields

That's where I disagree, it's easy for a VTEC to run 12s, come on, you'd have to have a TT and some NOS, intake, exhaust, header to do that.
But to the cars that come from the factory running fast, TT Supras, RX7s I do give respect those are actually sports cars, VTECs are not, and "Putting any amount of money into a VTEC is like wiping your *** with a terd".

Mark A Shields

..

Synapsis

How many stoplight races you think you'd get with that as a bumper sticker on your car?

rx7speed

maybo so if you put the same amount of mods on a larger displacement motor it would have more power as a small displacement motor

but you know who cares about all the mods you have on your car to run with that little turbo VTEC when some 90's supra running 9's comes up and wailes on your ***.

doesn't matter what you have or how big your motor is the only thing that matters in my book is how fast the car can run the turns or the 1/4

and for my case the little wankel was the best option for me. I wanted to have something a little different. something that ran good and had a strong drivetrain ( hehe strong it is but not with what I did to it, still need the turbo drivetrain) and I was able to get the car into the 12's for about the same that you guys did if not cheaper.
now I am sure I could turn the boost up a little more and tune it a little better and get myself into the 11's (as long as I still had the motor and was better able to get used to the car but I can't tune worth **** on a turbo, no do I still have the motor)


and IROCZTWENTYGR8 just admit it your as much of a post ***** as I am

all these little one word or one face comments

I yell POST *****

yeah so what so am I

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I disagree dude.

JAY87GTA

Let's face the facts. Any, and I mean any fast car has compromises. Suspension, ride quality all take a hit. IMO it don't count as a 10 sec or whatever it runs street car unless it runs those numbers on the street every day. There are very few cars that can do that. I have respect for anyone who's faster than me, I don't care how they got there. I have respect for anyone that takes it too the track, smart enough to do it leagally. Do I run on the road, occasionally, and never very fast. But I bet if you hop in an 11 sec fbody or mustang and them hop in an 11 sec honda, the domestic will ride better

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

And be more fun.

RMK

Ain't that the truth

92superram

I'm lovin every line of this debate. There ar cool imports, but most hondas ar not. I can't wait till i save up enough to build a 306(.030 over 302)Lt1 engine. Then we'll see about hp per litre. With a procharger plan on having way over 100hp/l. Hell, with the right parts, one could make 500hp naturally aspirated(while losing some low end tq capibilities) The best part is with a 6 speed, my gas mileage will be awsome.
Nick

I really need to win the lottery.

CrazyHawaiian

The newer 4cyl engines do good because like someone mentioned before, the newer variable valve technology avaliable today. And its not only honda engines with VTEC that are taking advantage of this technology. Lots of other manufacturers including Toyota and BMW and now Ford use this technology as well. Toyota has VVTi, BMW has VANIOS (sp?) and Ford uses ZTEC. The variable valve timing allows the engine to adjust itself for the most torque at the lower end of the powerband and the most hp at the high end. Compare that wigh the lightweight bodies of these cars and they can be fast. I dont really wanna get involved with the whole hp/ltr argument or witch engine is better, but if you're gonna compare newer technology 'import' engines to newer technology domestic engines at least pick a fair comparison ....

1998 LS1 5.7ltr (Camaro / Trans Am / C5)
- 345hp @ 5600 rpm
- 350 ft/lbs @ 4400 rpm

1998 1UZ-FE 4.0ltr w/ VVTi (Lexus GS400)
- 300hp @ 6000 rpm
- 315 ft/lbs @ 4000 rpm

So here we have a Lexus (Toyota) 'Import' v8 with VVTi putting down 300 hp with 4.0 ltrs! Thats 1.7ltr's smaller than a LS1. Add in the fact that the Toyota engine comes from the factory with foarged components and you gotta admit its a badass engine. No fair comparing a bottom end 'Import' 4 cyl to the top end domestic v8. The lexus v8 is pushing 75 hp/ltr, so if it was a 5.7ltr that would be around 427 hp!!

Not trying to say the LS1 sucks or anything but if you wonder why newer technology engines are so fast, there is a good comparison. And get this ... I read in a magazine (forgot witch one) that Volvo is developing a variable compression ratio system for the engines with pistons that rotate and can change the compression ratio on the fly. Pretty Cool!!

Also remember that one of the usual mods any import enthusiast tries to do (well the smart ones anyway) is an engine swap to a good engine (B16/B18/H22). So just because its a civic, dont assume it won't have a 195 type r or a 220 hp accord powerplant. If the civic was a hybrid motor then thats why it was keeping up. You can tell if they spray because of the white smoke comming out of the exhaust. And just to let you know, its not too hard to get a Civic into the 12's ... B16 or B18 swap into a 3 door hatch, gut the interior (gutted 3 door hatch weighs between 1800-220 pounds), and slap on some slicks (front wheel lol)and they can run high 13's all motor with a good driver. Turbocharge it pushing 12-15 psi and they are into the 12's easy.

Mark A Shields

Good point, at least Lexus realized the importance of cubes while Honda hasn't.
How much does that Lexus cost by the way, and it's 1/4 time?

smokin87iroc

and how much would the lexus engine cost and how much would the LS1 cost? or even simpler how much would the Lexus its self cost and how much would the camaro cost?
what is a better comparison is hp/Dollar how much you get for how much you pay.
Andrew

CrazyHawaiian

Well you cant really compare the costs of the two cars themselves because they are in completely different classes ... the LS1 would be found in a sports car while the 1UZ-FE would be found in a luxury car. If you wanna compare hp/$$ then you should compare the cost of either used engines themselves or the crate engines. I dont have any definate 'real world' answers on this one but I was quoted $2500 for a used LS1 with 65k miles from a car in an accident here locally in Hawaii and $4000 for a used 1UZ-FE shipped straight from Japan with 30k miles over the internet. I'm sure better deals could be found. But I will agree for the price of the engine itself and the mods the LS1 is far cheaper. Technology comes with a price. The Lexus v8 is a Quad Cam (yeah 4 of em!! wow!), 32 valve V8 with VVT-i. But anyway here's some specs from the Kelley Blue Book (www.kbb.org):

1. Camaro
Engine: V8 5.7 Liter
Trans: 6 Speed Manual
Drive: Rear Wheel Drive
Mileage: 59,000

Equipment
SS Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Compact Disc
CD Changer/Stacker
Premium Sound
Dual Front Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Sliding Sun Roof
Rear Spoiler
Premium Wheels

Retail Value $20,170


2. Lexus GS400
Engine: V8 4.0 Liter
Trans: 5-Speed Auto (ECT-i)
Drive: Rear Wheel Drive
Mileage: 59,000

Equipment
Auto-Climate Control
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Telescoping Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Compact Disc
CD Auto-Changer
Nakamichi Audio
Integrated Phone
Navigation System
Dual Front Air Bags
Anti-Lock Braking
Traction Control
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Rear Spoiler
Premium Wheels

Retail Value $35,095

So I guess its somewhere around 15 thousand more for the Lexus but lemme tell you ... you get what you pay for. Before I decided to do my project 91 z28, I was honeslt looking into financing a GS400. I took one for a test drive and the car is just awesome. You can fit 4 ppl very comfortably and the car rides and drives very good. Here's some performance specs;

0-60 mph acceleration 6.0 seconds
1/4 mile acceleration 14.5 seconds
Top track speed 149 mph (Governed)
Redline/maximum rpm 6,350 rpm

Geeze I feel like a car salesman lol

d_rtis

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