1991tealRSt-topGuy

Treview1

The way i see it, VTEC is a usefull way to make an otherwise undrivable engine (no torque or HP down low) drivable. It certainly helps. However, like Rsxtcy said, they should not be comapared to V8's, they just arent as powerful. You dont see Ferarris with VTEC 4's do ya? No. However, most ricers try to compare the engines by saying crap like "well mine makes more Hp/lt." Well hey, i thought you didn;t want to compare them....but if we must...ok..in life, anything is fair game...if you and me both 20k to spend and i choose a 2 year old LS1 and you pick a new Si, dont complain when i steal you at the track. Peace

Mark A Shields

I think it's fair to compare the new 4 bangers to V8's because these 4 cylinders have a weight advantage on us, so what they lack in cubes they make up in weight.

Treview1

where that is true, it seems that the failry modded 4 bangers are only beating the fairly modded 8's from the early 80's. When they race even stock modern 8's, they most likely lose.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

They are beating early stock V8's and TBI's probably using nitrous and stuff. There's a win. The stock 1's run around high 15's-low 16's. Thats like stock TBI area.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Things must be soo different, in various parts of the country.

My buddy owns a race shop and does excluslively vtec stuff. A 450HP vtech in a 2200-2500lbs car is pretty fast, sad to say.
I'm not a honda suporter, but can you think of any other company that gets about 100hp per liter?

-- Joe

Mark A Shields

Is there really a need, I mean come on a Z06 runs 12.4, I'd hate to see that thing with 100hp/litre.

Just for my knowledge what would it take to make a 450hp VTEC, I'm assuming at least TT.
Only if the Japanese could make a V8 VTEC and have it be 100hp/litre that I would like to see.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

And imagine the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to do that?!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I guess I have to reword this..

If GM could make a 4 cyl pull a firebird as good as an eclipse,
they would. I like V8s, I love GM. But I'm not brainwashed.. Like you, I happen to like a 3500lbs rear wheel drive vehicle, that rides like a freight car, so thats what I own.

No slams here. You guys prolly don't get the opportunity to work
on as many different things as I do.

-- Joe

Mark A Shields

Isn't GM coming out with some new Sunfires and Cavaliers to hopefully compete with VTECS and sport compacts, I'm not sure of the specs on them though.

trans87

First what v-tech is from the words of Spookyp at corvette forum:
"What does this mean? VTEC stands for Variable Timing and Lift Electronic control and is an electronic valve control system that optimizes the action of the intake and exhaust valves.

The whole point of VTEC is to ensure that power delivery is smooth and efficient across the RPM band - from low to hi."

Second quote on how V-TECH can't kick in from Turbocivicsi101 :

"To answer your question Vtec is not a power adder. It is, instead, an engine managment system that allows the engine to be 'tweaked' for both low end torque and high end power. When you head kids saying "Vtec kicked in!" or "I Vtechked His butt!" it just shows how little they know about their cars"

V-TECH does NOT kick in. All it is a management system on a Honda. That would be like saying my Hypertech chip kicked in at 3000rpm. It is always on. Hope this clears any confusion.

Mark A Shields

I would like to see VTECs pull a Firebird as good as an Eclipse, they couldn't cause of the weight, and that's the only reason these cars these days run like they do cause they're light, you need something with cubes or some TQ to pull our heavy cars.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Mark, seriously think about it. Why is our cars soo heavy? Could it be the "Engine, transmision, rearend"??

The torque issue is very valid, they don't have a lot of torque, which is why most f-body's beat 'em in the 60 foot, then the vtec passes by about 5 car lengths. Shifting at 7,000RPM helps hah.

Its different worlds, my point is, the vtec stuff is more efficient.
The more efficient you can be per CI, the more hp you make.

So if a 200lbs motor can make the same hp as a 550lbs motor, why wouldn't you go with the lighter one?

Like I said, the v8 stuff will always be cool. But if GM wishes to maintain a majority player in the car market, they need to start looking at their technology.

-- Joe

ChillPhatCat

yes, Mazda... they got the 12A (1.2L) rotary to make 220 Hp N/A in their le-mans cars back in the 70's... the most recent le-mans competitor they entered made 700 Hp in a 2.6L engine... N/A! so I'd have to say Mazda is definitely the king.

I think it's lagit to compare V8 to I4...

Ls1's get 28 MPG and put out 350 Hp easily stock.

The basic Honda Ex (SOHC Vtec) motor has 127 Hp and gets about 35 MPG

Now a lot of import guys (no finger pointing intended) will say "At least I don't guzzle gas like you" if they lose a race... or they'll tell you they could take you "in the twisties"... well, I have to say. 3rd and 4th gen's are quite strong in Auto-X compared to most imports and 4th gens don't seem to be too bad on gas either.

I guess it was the 4000 lb 455 CID 2nd gens that gave us the bum rap...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

They might be light but they aren't strong and can only have real small engines in them. Why even bother spending on a car that is at a disadvantage in every way to try and have performance?? They need VTEC, or any TEC for that matter so they don't get left on the streets and highways like a go-kart racing against a real car.

ChillPhatCat

BTW

Civic EX:

127Hp/1.7L = 74.7 Hp/L

LS1 (2002 Trans Am):

345Hp/5.7L = 60.2 Hp/L

the Ls1 would need to put out 425 Hp total to get the same efficiency, but lets face it... GM doesn't want something rivaling the Z06... which I might add gets 405Hp out of the same displacement at 25 MPG. GM has the technology, but would you rather pay $25k for a new F-Body or $35k?

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Who cares about HP per Liter anyway it isn't even an issue. You are still comparing a 4cyl. to a V8. The more ci., the more cylinders, the more power and potential. Thats what high ci. engines are for, performance and speed.

Abel Kane

About how much hp will an electric fan free up? I did not know about this.

Mark A Shields

Probably around 10hp or so.

Abel Kane

OK. So let's say, on the LTD, true dual exhaust, electric fan, Bosch +4 plugs, open K&N air filter....That's somewhere in the neighbourhood of what? 35-40 hp?

Mark A Shields

TOTAL JUNK

Platinum lasts longer, but copper conducts better, go with AC Delco, as an estimate, I'd say you're looking at 25hp or so.

Abel Kane

They've always given me better performance, and I've always replaced AC Delcos with them...
This is off subject, but if anyone wants to see some really funny ridicule of cars that annoy usd, wherever they're from, check out
www.dieselfume.com
and check out the link that says "Tom's Rice Grinder". This guy is funny.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

LOL!! :sillylol: That was good!! Gotta have this 1 too for any1 that hasn't seen it, www.gti-vr6.net/GTI_vs_Civic/

d_rtis

Im a little late but im here, I hate v-techs or hondas because to me they look ugly and sound ugly. If you want to be the fastest on the street get a bike, I would run laps on a V-tech with nos on his best day or any car for that matter with my yamaha YZF R1.

Abel Kane

But I like how Tom is like lecturing the rice. He reminds me of a comedian names Kevin Meaney.:nono:

8.2L Trans Am

Hey, this is what I say when they bring up that stupid HP per liter crap. I simply ask them what their power to weight is becouse that is all that really maters right? After all your average third gen has about a 14.6LBs to one horsepower and the average honda has 16-22lbs per horsepower and that is stock to stock the nubers spread out when modified. Most of the time it shuts them up.

Mark A Shields

Good point, do you really have a 500ci motor in your TA?

tpivette89

all that crap about better mpg and hp/liter is nothing more that ***** excuses for when they lose. "oh, well, i get better mpg!!!" ok, so friggin what? when we race, do we worry about that sh*t? NO! did you buy that Honda because its got good gas milage? no, you bought it because it was the trendy thing to do and all your friends think theyre fast. bottom line is... V8s are faster. i dont want to hear the screams tha some imports have gone 9s and 8s. America has funny cars that go 3-4 seconds at 300+ mph. lets see a 4cyl do that. to make power you need air and fuel, and its easy to see that a 8cyl engine can ingest more air&fuel than a 4cyl.

8.2L Trans Am

No, I don't have one in my car, but I have a 502 in my garage ready to drop in in a few weeks.

camaro03

i was thinking about it and the only way the tyope r got around me was by drafting, i was at 90 before he moved over to pass me, the civic with him couldn teven think about running with me, i let off the gas when he was like 8 lengths behind me and the type r, this was on a highly patrolled road, im not risking my liscense for little foreign peices of ****,

rx7speed

they have imports that drive to the track and run 9's then turn on the a/c and drive it home

they also have imports that are running into the low 6 range right now. not bad being that the import motor is a lot smaller and has had less time to come up to make this power.

I have also read somewhere they have an integra 4 cyl setup to run with 4000hp

doesn't look like imports are doing that bad if you ask me

and a v8 might be able to take in more air/fuel then a 4 cyl
but that is why they have turbos now don't they

oh I know you are going to say though that put that turbo on a v8 b/c a v8 would respond better b/c of displacement

then I can go on saying yeah well I can bore and stroke a 4 cyl that has a turbo on it and the added displacement I gain will work better for me b/c I have a turbo


the arguement will never end


I just say run what you brung who the fu(k cares if it is import or not and to the fool who brings his car running 17 second 1/4 miles thinking it's the ****... well he will find out by the end of the night who the **** really is be it 4 cyl or 8cyl or even a wankel like mine.. fast is fast and there are many ways to go about making power

rx7speed

hehe head over to www.rx7forum.com
we have a few ppl over there that can take on hyabusas

though I admit stock for stock cn't beat a bike most the time

friggen no weight on those things

just can't wait to strap a wankel in one of them

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

rx7speed

you post *****

rx7speed

your worse then I am

Treview1

very well said Rx7Speed

RMK

Most of the time? Stock for stock, if the RX-7 was able to beat it at all in a straight line I would be your slave for life.:sillylol:

Mark A Shields

Sort of how you made a 2nd reply just to say this.

Oh, and there are some street legal 9s domestic cars, there's an older vette around where I live.

Mark A Shields

Speaking of bikes, I forget the name of it right now, but there's an american bike that has a SBC on it, there's one up here around college, just wondering what this bike would run.

cloudmaster

I feel compelled to point out that BMW is using their valvetronic system on their upper-end engines now, and supposedly plans to use it on all of them eventually. Valvetronic kicks the crappy v-tec system's **** all over the place, and it's used on a V8. So, for a paltry 70 grand+, you could have your V8 and your variable valve timing too.

I dunno, I think it's cool just because they use the valve lift to replace a throttle body - but that's the engineer in me talking, not the finance manager.

http://popularmechanics.com/automoti...7/index2.phtml
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/valvetronic.htm

tpivette89

quote:

I just say run what you brung who the fu(k cares if it is import or not and to the fool who brings his car running 17 second 1/4 miles thinking it's the ****... well he will find out by the end of the night who the **** really is be it 4 cyl or 8cyl or even a wankel like mine.. fast is fast and there are many ways to go about making power

very true, to each his own. but where a 4cyl needs a turbo to make it into the single digits, a V8 can do that and more N/A. point is, do the same mods to each engine and the V8 will come out on top. thats why i say V8s are faster

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Not me rx7, that is you. I only post when I see a reason to and only use 1 post at a time to say something. When I said , I meant . tpivette just kept me from having to type anything out which is good because I still didn't feel like it.

Mark A Shields

There you go again.

Mark A Shields

oops double post

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

LOL, idiot. I was replying.

Mark A Shields

Oh no, you're not going to have the last word in this post.

IROCTWENTY be sure to recheck the exhaust board about the single chamber flows.

ChillPhatCat

LOL no wonder you have 4k posts...

I think this is #1000 for me...

Looks like I need a new avatar now

Treview1

I agree with RX7Speed almost 100%. However, whether it be 4 or 8 cylinders, it is still an engine. You can do the same mods to either engine, just the part might be from another company. Yes, you could turbo a 4 to be as quick as an NA 8. And yes you could port and polish a turbo 4 to match a turbo 8. But what happens when you polish a turbo/supercharged 8. The other thing to realize is that MOST of these little engines making good hp/lt. also use higher compression ratios. Im not making excuses for better engineering, because thats one thing us third gen owners cant argue with. (LS6=different story). But when i can by a V8 for the same or less $$$$ than a 4, why waste the money being handicapped by less engine....plus we all know that the 8 makes a much sweeter exhaust note that a 4. Anyway...:hail: :hail: ZO6 Vette

Mark A Shields

Actually, I don't usually post crap like that, I was just tryin to mess with IROCTWENTY.

Damn, guess I'm doing it again, it wasn't on purpose.

Crazy Firebird Kid

Well, damn, I may as well make my 100th post



:hail: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :rockon: :rockon: