305 LB9 are slow bull
#201
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
big cam, with vortec heads could reach 400 crank HP I would think. LT1's can do it on stock heads with the right cam. There are cammed LT1s making those kinds of numbers easily. Some LT1's have made up to 360rwhp with the right cam, cai, and exhaust on stock heads (valve springs done ofcourse)
But that begs the question, how much are you willing to spend to upgrade it. At what point do you begin spending more money than you would have if you swapped to a 350, or if you swapped to a Gen3 motor.
If your goal is to build the ultimate 305 with the most power possible money no object then absolutely yes it can be done. And it could probably be done with a TBI type intake.
But that begs the question, how much are you willing to spend to upgrade it. At what point do you begin spending more money than you would have if you swapped to a 350, or if you swapped to a Gen3 motor.
If your goal is to build the ultimate 305 with the most power possible money no object then absolutely yes it can be done. And it could probably be done with a TBI type intake.
#202
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
how big a cam tho would it take ? would it be street drivable ? i'm going turbo myself in a couple months . to me thats the easiest route , something i know an know will work
#203
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Originally Posted by freaky
how big a cam tho would it take ? would it be street drivable ? i'm going turbo myself in a couple months . to me thats the easiest route , something i know an know will work...
#204
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
i'm buying a turbo next month i'm putting the lt1 cam in her then i'm getting the turbo . i'm thing a t70 with a .84 ar exhaust . any thoughts street lethal ?
i just got the ebl flash i'm getting the bugs out first n learn to tune then it's turbo bound .lol
i just got the ebl flash i'm getting the bugs out first n learn to tune then it's turbo bound .lol
#205
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Originally Posted by freaky
i'm buying a turbo next month i'm putting the lt1 cam in her then i'm getting the turbo . i'm thing a t70 with a .84 ar exhaust . any thoughts street lethal ?
i just got the ebl flash i'm getting the bugs out first n learn to tune then it's turbo bound .lol
i just got the ebl flash i'm getting the bugs out first n learn to tune then it's turbo bound .lol
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/sout...ml#post5181642
Your already ahead of the game with the EBL, as rather than waste time burning chips, Bob simplified everything with his own version of GM code and firmware. The cam is a great choice for the street as well as that turbo, but put a little extra work in whichever heads you choose to go with as that is where your real gains will come from...
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
You can throw the biggest cam made into a 305, but it won't do a damn thing unless the engines airflow demand requires it. 305's don't huff much air N/A so you'd be wasting your time with a huge cam and really high flow heads.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Can I reuse my stock rockers,pushrods, and flat top lifters with my 113 heads on my 305 I hate when ppl don't give answers but opinions
#208
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
aaaaaaand theeeeeeen
I really hate to feed the trolls but Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick....can you keep your story or wacky claims straight please?
Stock LO3 heads aren't supporting 400hp at the wheels N/A...period. But then again if a carb is on it.......
Stock LO3 heads aren't supporting 400hp at the wheels N/A...period. But then again if a carb is on it.......
#210
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
This isn't the engine tech section for those types of questions, but lifters are a no no for re-using. Only roller lifters can be re-used. As far as rockers and pushrods, yes they can be re-used. I would highly recommend new stiffer valve springs though if you are camming it.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
i'm sorry but even an optimist/305 lover like myself cant pretend to see numbers around 400 from any of that, i mean it just doesn't translate to a substantial enough increase in hp on itself
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Its the cam in it its jst for now to get it back running and I will upgrade to lt4 springs just for a 1 or 2k at most than a full rebuild I need my car back the fuel injectors went out after the race so I haven't dove it sents that day
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
flat top lifters are good for high compresion. i like hydraulic pistons ease of maintenance. it's nice to not have to adjust your pistons every year.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.
I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.
If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
Last edited by thebuffalo; 02-15-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
LOL, priceless!
You are very much an amatuer, but most of us already knew that. Headers in no way, shape, or form are adding anywhere near 30-40 HP on a 305. A timing gear swap over a chain is also not adding 20 HP....or even 5 HP for that matter. It sounds like you opened up a jegs catalog and got your HP facts right out of the descriptions. I'll say it again....give it a shot on your quest for your 400 HP 305 and let us know how it goes. Until then, stop trying to preach to the guys that know better.
And that N/A 400 HP honda engine probably ran on race gas, had 14:1 compression, ITB's, the works. Making 400HP N/A on a honda engine is next to impossible as well.
What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
And that N/A 400 HP honda engine probably ran on race gas, had 14:1 compression, ITB's, the works. Making 400HP N/A on a honda engine is next to impossible as well.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
LOL, priceless!
You are very much an amatuer, but most of us already knew that. Headers in no way, shape, or form are adding anywhere near 30-40 HP on a 305. A timing gear swap over a chain is also not adding 20 HP....or even 5 HP for that matter. It sounds like you opened up a jegs catalog and got your HP facts right out of the descriptions. I'll say it again....give it a shot on your quest for your 400 HP 305 and let us know how it goes. Until then, stop trying to preach to the guys that know better.
And that N/A 400 HP honda engine probably ran on race gas, had 14:1 compression, ITB's, the works. Making 400HP N/A on a honda engine is next to impossible as well.
You are very much an amatuer, but most of us already knew that. Headers in no way, shape, or form are adding anywhere near 30-40 HP on a 305. A timing gear swap over a chain is also not adding 20 HP....or even 5 HP for that matter. It sounds like you opened up a jegs catalog and got your HP facts right out of the descriptions. I'll say it again....give it a shot on your quest for your 400 HP 305 and let us know how it goes. Until then, stop trying to preach to the guys that know better.
And that N/A 400 HP honda engine probably ran on race gas, had 14:1 compression, ITB's, the works. Making 400HP N/A on a honda engine is next to impossible as well.
400hp N/A honda motor had 4 dirtbike carbs, not sure the size. and it had like 13.5:1 so you're close.
#219
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
"machine the hell out of stock heads" means that the heads are no longer stock.
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.
I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.
If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.
What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.
I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.
If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.
What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
Dont' make me animate that 305 saga picture.
#220
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
"machine the hell out of stock heads" means that the heads are no longer stock.
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.
I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.
If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.
I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.
If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.
If the 305 had a bore big enough to accept some decent sized valves it could make 400whp no problem.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Fact: if you support a 305, people will get mad and rage and even go against what is known to try to prove a point.
The problem with the 305 is not the size it is the bore. Chances are the Honda heads with 4 valves have a much higher flow potential than any 305 heads every will because of valve size. Also the Honda engine can probably spin 2xRPM then the 305 will ever spin on its best day. I have seen a fair amount of streetable Hondas turning 10k RPMs.
If the 305 had a bore big enough to accept some decent sized valves it could make 400whp no problem.
If the 305 had a bore big enough to accept some decent sized valves it could make 400whp no problem.
Last edited by thebuffalo; 02-15-2012 at 11:27 AM.
#222
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
that takes the cake, man i wish that was true my L98 would be pushing 500 if that was the case
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
I'm going to look up the article of the 305 N/A that was on a circle track pushing like 500 just to end this debate.
Last edited by thebuffalo; 02-15-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
If you are seriously running stock springs on anything other than the stock cam, you are ****ing dumb. Get springs on that damn motor and run 1.6 rocker.
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#229
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.
And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?
Stock 170hp
+ 30-40hp from ported stock iron heads
+ 15hp for a carb swap (I think thats what you meant, you cant just
"rip the Tb and ECU out" to gain HP )
+ 75hp for a new HEI and MSD box, cam and rockers (already roller cam so no gain there, and you probably going to INCREASE friction with the larger cam BTW, thats negligable though)
+30-40 for headers
+5 hp for no cat which is generous (EGR is disabled at WOT so no gain there)
+20 hp for swapping a timing chain to gear drive (your dreaming here)
so your at 365HP(which is laughable because the numbers your throwing out are WAY high on average), and the last 35hp from an intake (and carb again?) swap.
Then you take into account the divide all catalog advertized HP gains by 2 and you get real world, soooo your sitting at 285 HP, give it a little fudge factor of 15hp and ok your at 300 crank HP.
Your right, you are an amateur... who's reading a jegs catalog and adding up the "+XXXhp" figures. And no, simple addition is NOT statisitcs, it's first grade math.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
So you said:
Stock 170hp
+ 30-40hp from ported stock iron heads
+ 15hp for a carb swap (I think thats what you meant, you cant just
"rip the Tb and ECU out" to gain HP )
+ 75hp for a new HEI and MSD box, cam and rockers (already roller cam so no gain there, and you probably going to INCREASE friction with the larger cam BTW, thats negligable though)
+30-40 for headers
+5 hp for no cat which is generous (EGR is disabled at WOT so no gain there)
+20 hp for swapping a timing chain to gear drive (your dreaming here)
so your at 365HP(which is laughable because the numbers your throwing out are WAY high on average), and the last 35hp from an intake (and carb again?) swap.
Then you take into account the divide all catalog advertized HP gains by 2 and you get real world, soooo your sitting at 285 HP, give it a little fudge factor of 15hp and ok your at 300 crank HP.
Your right, you are an amateur... who's reading a jegs catalog and adding up the "+XXXhp" figures. And no, simple addition is NOT statisitcs, it's first grade math.
Stock 170hp
+ 30-40hp from ported stock iron heads
+ 15hp for a carb swap (I think thats what you meant, you cant just
"rip the Tb and ECU out" to gain HP )
+ 75hp for a new HEI and MSD box, cam and rockers (already roller cam so no gain there, and you probably going to INCREASE friction with the larger cam BTW, thats negligable though)
+30-40 for headers
+5 hp for no cat which is generous (EGR is disabled at WOT so no gain there)
+20 hp for swapping a timing chain to gear drive (your dreaming here)
so your at 365HP(which is laughable because the numbers your throwing out are WAY high on average), and the last 35hp from an intake (and carb again?) swap.
Then you take into account the divide all catalog advertized HP gains by 2 and you get real world, soooo your sitting at 285 HP, give it a little fudge factor of 15hp and ok your at 300 crank HP.
Your right, you are an amateur... who's reading a jegs catalog and adding up the "+XXXhp" figures. And no, simple addition is NOT statisitcs, it's first grade math.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Buffalo, you're saying you can make an N/A 305 produce 400hp wheel? As in somewhere around 500hp crank? as in somewhere in the ballpark of 1.6hp per cubic inch? Do you work for Ferrari building F1 motors? If not, you should.
Oh, one more thing. If you're saying yes to any of the questions I said above, you're lying.
Oh, one more thing. If you're saying yes to any of the questions I said above, you're lying.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Buffalo, you're saying you can make an N/A 305 produce 400hp wheel? As in somewhere around 500hp crank? as in somewhere in the ballpark of 1.6hp per cubic inch? Do you work for Ferrari building F1 motors? If not, you should.
Oh, one more thing. If you're saying yes to any of the questions I said above, you're lying.
Oh, one more thing. If you're saying yes to any of the questions I said above, you're lying.
and 400 out of the crank of a 305 would be 1.311475409836066hp per cubic inch
I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank
Last edited by thebuffalo; 02-15-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
You definitely said 400 wheel power. And the H22 makes 230 crank not the 2 liter. And if we're talking wheel, then the s2k puts down about 200hp on a good day, you do the hp per liter math on it.
Do your homework kid.
Edit, the anticipation is killing me. Its 1.56hp per ci.
Do your homework kid.
Edit, the anticipation is killing me. Its 1.56hp per ci.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
I said 400 to the wheels is possible, not that I can do it. I said I can do 400 out of the crank.
read first, then talk.
still producing 1.5+ hp per cubic inch, so maybe they should be ferrari mechanics?
I feel like you guys are off topic not providing any legit statements as to a 305 being slow and simply just trashing to bash me, as to when I'm saying you can get 400hp+ out of the crank.
read first, then talk.
You definitely said 400 wheel power. And the H22 makes 230 crank not the 2 liter. And if we're talking wheel, then the s2k puts down about 200hp on a good day, you do the hp per liter math on it.
Do your homework kid.
Edit, the anticipation is killing me. Its 1.56hp per ci.
Do your homework kid.
Edit, the anticipation is killing me. Its 1.56hp per ci.
I feel like you guys are off topic not providing any legit statements as to a 305 being slow and simply just trashing to bash me, as to when I'm saying you can get 400hp+ out of the crank.
Last edited by thebuffalo; 02-15-2012 at 03:57 PM.
#236
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Example the CBR1000 makes about 165whp on a dyno and is only 61 cubes.
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
I said 400 to the wheels is possible, not that I can do it. I said I can do 400 out of the crank.
read first, then talk.
still producing 1.5+ hp per cubic inch, so maybe they should be ferrari mechanics?
I feel like you guys are off topic not providing any legit statements as to a 305 being slow and simply just trashing to bash me, as to when I'm saying you can get 400hp+ out of the crank.
read first, then talk.
still producing 1.5+ hp per cubic inch, so maybe they should be ferrari mechanics?
I feel like you guys are off topic not providing any legit statements as to a 305 being slow and simply just trashing to bash me, as to when I'm saying you can get 400hp+ out of the crank.
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Axle/Gears: custom Ford 8.8", 4.10 gears
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
This is good for many laughs.
+1
Carry on.
+1
Carry on.
#241
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
Engine: Cammed 6.0L LSX
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: custom Ford 8.8", 4.10 gears
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
I think I'm going to buy an Iron Duke Camaro and mod it to get 300rwhp.
#242
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Car: 1992 RS 6spd
Engine: Carbed 357c.i.
Transmission: Built T56
Axle/Gears: Soon to be Strange S60
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
And on that note, I'm gonna go stare at my motor on its stand, and wave my magic wand and hope for 2hp per cubic inch. Later!
#244
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Car: 83 trans am Dayton
Engine: 305 cross fire
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
#245
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
300rwhp might be out of line, but you could get about 330 crank HP with the SuperDuty 4 parts and a 3.3L stroker kit. GM built one from off the shelf Superduty parts. Peak power was at about 7800rpm though. Enough to make some of the honda boys begin to drool. This was in 1982.
#246
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
I'm willing to bet that ALL of those engines were dynoed without spinning their own water pump, alternator, nor did they have a full exhaust back to the tail pipes when dynoed.
Thats the same as the old SAE Gross numbers as compared to the SAE Net numbers.
#247
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Car: 1992 RS 6spd
Engine: Carbed 357c.i.
Transmission: Built T56
Axle/Gears: Soon to be Strange S60
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
The popular hotrodding article is accurate.
edit: nevermind, i opened the wrong article the first time.
edit: nevermind, i opened the wrong article the first time.
Last edited by calamitascamaro; 02-15-2012 at 09:21 PM.
#248
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Car: 1992 RS 6spd
Engine: Carbed 357c.i.
Transmission: Built T56
Axle/Gears: Soon to be Strange S60
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
The popular hotrodding article doesn't load.
I'm willing to bet that ALL of those engines were dynoed without spinning their own water pump, alternator, nor did they have a full exhaust back to the tail pipes when dynoed.
Thats the same as the old SAE Gross numbers as compared to the SAE Net numbers.
I'm willing to bet that ALL of those engines were dynoed without spinning their own water pump, alternator, nor did they have a full exhaust back to the tail pipes when dynoed.
Thats the same as the old SAE Gross numbers as compared to the SAE Net numbers.
#249
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Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Yeah, take a look at those pics. The engine isn't spinning its own alternator or water pump, and its essentially dumping at the headers.
Put the accessories back on and come talk about the 400hp 305.
Do you see it spinning its own accessories in the pic below? Nope. Come back with one that is.
Put the accessories back on and come talk about the 400hp 305.
Do you see it spinning its own accessories in the pic below? Nope. Come back with one that is.
#250
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Car: 1992 RS 6spd
Engine: Carbed 357c.i.
Transmission: Built T56
Axle/Gears: Soon to be Strange S60
Re: 305 LB9 are slow bull
Yeah, take a look at those pics. The engine isn't spinning its own alternator or water pump, and its essentially dumping at the headers.
Put the accessories back on and come talk about the 400hp 305.
Do you see it spinning its own accessories in the pic below? Nope. Come back with one that is.
Put the accessories back on and come talk about the 400hp 305.
Do you see it spinning its own accessories in the pic below? Nope. Come back with one that is.