v10viper04

Engines are basically "Broken it" before they leave the factory so the factory can see them run good. That's not an excuse. It got beat by an LS1 as i see it... I am loyal to GM i can tell you that much, but i can give respect when its due. I said i think its a good engine but its only catching up to GM. I get blasted for that comment, its my personal opinion. 89fbirdformula apparently knows all about both cars, i can't have an opinion on this thread without him saying i'm wrong. Its a new engine and ppl seem to be caught up in that... Ford has ALWAYS had smaller motors than GM, GM goes big cubes with no power adder, that's the difference. That 10.9 sec 5.0 stang is set up for drag, on the 2nd link posted they talked about modifying the suspension, weight reduction, custom chassis parts, nitrous. Its not anywhere near stock anymore.... Not comparable to stock 5th gen.

89fbirdformula

get it through your head that it makes ZERO difference what forum we are on, facts are facts...if you cant see them, thats your problem.

there are several cars with different approaches, taking seats out makes hardly any difference at the track.

Jpc's car with a rear gear, bassani 3 inch xpipe, and mufflers, stock cats, 31 spline axles and spool,FULL weight, slicks and skinnys with a 28x10 et street...and a 100 shot of nitrous...

car went 1.47 60 foot with the tires up, 10.88@127

if you think the above car is a DRAG car...you need your head examined, it could be driven DAILY with zero issues.

a CAMARO wont do that, no matter how much you wanna wish it could, no matter how much you think it should, it WONT, and thats a FACT. funny how so many other people in this very thread agree with ME, and are trying to tell you that you are mistaken, but you just fail to acknowledge that...ignorance is bliss though.

how am i BLASTING the camaro, i OWN ONE!! hell, i own 3 fbodys.

tell you what, search ALLLLLL over the web, you find me a 2010 ss that will run in the 10s, with a tire/gear/nitrous{100 shot}/exhaust.

Get off your GM highhorse man, seriously, you make yourself look completely foolish, i have done nothing but provide proof of what i have claimed, you provide nothing but your personal opinion, which to me is irrelevant, considering i highly doubt you have any actual real life experience with EITHER car.

89fbirdformula

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. everybody else has stated facts player, and facts are what they are...mustang is faster.

just because someone posts a video of a "stock LS1" beating a new mustang, doesnt mean a damn thing. to many issues come into play like driver error/lack of driver skill/traction... etc etc. and if you think the new 5.0 lacks because of that video, you are a fool.

both cars are worthless on street tires, just like many performance cars, the only thing that matters to me, and anyone else, is what number either car can pull with a tire on it, be it a radial, or a slick. nobody cares about either car going 13.0s at 115+ spinning there *** off through a couple gears.

v10viper04

My opinion is this. I think the new Ford 5.0 is a great engine, but i don't think its as great as the LS series. Ford's known for taking a small cube motor and making power whether it be N/A or boosted. Gm mostly uses big cubes to get the power. From what i have seen you can make BIG BIG numbers on LS motors, granted the new 5.0 really hasn't been modified yet but i don't think it will make GM's LS series look like **** as a lot of you ppl seem to believe. Its only catching GM as i see it. That 10.9 pass is not a stock stang anymore, it has Drag radials, pass seat taken out and driver replaced with a lightweight seat, drag aluminum wheels all the way around, custom chassis pieces and modified suspension, a shot of nitrous, and an hour on hour tuning session plus whatever else thy did that they didn't say. One site says DR's/CAI/ and nitrous while the other says all that i said just now( and the second site is talking about the first sites car.) The first site is trying to make it seem fast with a small amount of mods, the fact is the car was set up and not anywhere near stock form. That said it can't be compared to the 10' Camaro in stock form. I'm surprised to see ppl ragging on the new Camaro like this, from what i saw in the mags i have read that i got in the mail stock for stock the camaro is faster than the stang in 1/4 mile and 0-100, the stang out brakes and out handles the camaro on the skidpad, and the Camaro has a higher slalom speed. The stang could be faster on the street or the Camaro could be but right now its hard to tell, not many are on the streets yet. We will soon find out.

89fbirdformula

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzwU1q4pkoo

89fbirdformula

a full drag suspension? really? LMAO, like i said man, if you think that is a full DRAG car...you need your head examined.

shocks/struts/ and a pair of control arms hardly constitute a full out hardcore DRAG car, like you keep making it out to be.

Evolution performance did it with stock suspension, whats your argument there?

you keep saying the camaro is better/faster etc etc , blah blah blah!..

SHOW ME where a camaro has gone that ET, with the mods given to the mustang...i know why you havent shown me this, its because you CANT, there isnt one out there.

i have built and raced MANY cars, thats besides the point...

we are talking about two very specific cars, and yes...i have firsthand real life experience with both, hell, like i said, i OWN one of them.

you stick to your theroetical magazine racing, and i'll keep doin it in the realworld

d00012

Have we forgotten that aftermarket manufacturers get the engines before the release so they can make aftermarket parts for the new engine?

Ford finally brought out the 5.0 name to increase its sales. They could have done something different, but would they have gotten all the hype they have now? GM finally did something right in release the Camaro the way it is, people love it. I've seen maybe a couple 2010 Mustangs around, and far more Camaros.

Right now Ford doesn't care too much about power, the extra .4 litres helped, but really all they care about is money. Same with GM, which is why they won't let us down by responding to the new 5.0. New option codes, maybe something from the Corvette, like the Z07 RPO?

It's going to be a constant one-up-manship. I said it before and will say it again, it won't matter until both companies finally go belly up.

v10viper04

Why do you keep bringing up the fact that the Camaro can't go that fast with those mods? I'm not bringing that up, saying that make you feel better? AGAIN the new stang is set up for drag, did i ever say is was a full blown drag car? No i did not. i said they made it into a drag car which is indeed correct. Suspension pieces made for the strip and modified chassis pieces deff make it not a street car anymore.( maybe street legal but not as street friendly as it once was) You don't own one your fiance does O and i'm sure you've had the opportunity to go through the JPC car and see whats there and what isn't? I rest my case. Your blinded by the "New 5.0" craze just like i said. The new 5.0's real potential has yet to be seen but that is by no means a stock Mustang. Its a set up mustang. There was no "race for the 10s" for the new Camaro when it came out. I don't remember a race at all. Enlighten me almighty one...

d00012

Probably wouldn't take much to get the Camaros the same time. Why have we all gotten dumb so suddenly? The hype can't be that blinding?

It's like we forgot they both have amazing potential. But I personally would take the OHV V8 over a DOHC V8. One reason is the less weight and rotating mass the OHV has. Not to mention the price of only one camshaft. Also, the extra cubes leaves more potential.

Why can't we debate over this, and not a car built for dragging? I thought this was a debate on STOCK? Or am I just confused?

Oh, and 89fbirdformula, where's the proof of experience, you can't state with out evidence. And this isn't a debate on experience, but our OPINIONS on these two cars.

89fbirdformula

hmm, my fiance...pretty sure that makes the car jsut as much mine, as it is hers..but anywho, thats none of your buisness.

i have driven both a stock '10 ss...and a stock 5.0... 5.0 is faster, hands down. YOU just cant get that through your head, for whatever reason.

i am comparing apples to apples...and the camaro just cannot hang be it stock, or modded.

there are TURBO 42x cubic inch '10s out there that are running the same ET, that more then a few 5.0s are running, with a 100% stock longblock.

you make to many assumptions, im not saying the lsx is bad...or the 5.0 is better... what i am saying is.. ford finally has something, that evidently is going to give the lsx platform, one HELL of a run for its money.

89fbirdformula

because there is no debate.

its been proven with facts...stock for stock, mustang wins hands down in every category.

what experience would you like me to show you? i posted a picture of our car previously, the 5.0 i have driven is a buddys...and he CLEARLY wins everytime we race. sad part is, my TPI formula on motor whacks his big bad new 5.0

d00012

The point I'm trying to make is there is no point in arguing with each other. It's the internet for crying out loud! Nobody will believe anybody without physical evidence.

I'm sure Ford made a better car, but there's always going to be doubt due to biased information. Somehow Mustang has always been THE pony car everyone wants. GM may have made a faster one, but Mustang was always there first. I often find myself daydreaming of owning a Mustang, and yet I'm a die-hard Pontiac lover.

What have you done to your TPI? I'm sure your buddy wasn't too happy.

89fbirdformula

here you go...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fire...a-hardtop.html

d00012

Sweet, from Illinois. I'll be moving there in about a year, hopefully.

Those are some nice mods.

So, you beat his 5.0 on just the motor? How close was it?

89fbirdformula

got him by about 2 or 3 cars, my car runs very well for what it is.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

You guys have some good points, but there is too much hostility, seems you both are not reading each other right.

The new camaro canot run the same times for 1 reason, weight. 400 more pounds is ALLOT, that is what holds it back.

Compare the new mustang to the 13 year old camaro, that weighs the same and it will get SMASHED. The new camaro will have to step up its game in the weight class to do better. End of story, there are 10 camaros in the 9s, been for a while now,

But, if you think the new 5.0 has potential? I think it is maxed out with little room grow since the cubes are running maxed for power, they cannot go much further than they are, the stock heads on that thing cannot get much beter, at all. They are like factory AFRs, they FLOW really well.

Now, the 1997 LS1 that was in the C5 and the 98 camaro, well, these have gone 10s on all motor stock short block. When the 13 year newer 5.0 does that, then they will have something to beat their chest with.


I ran a 11 GT last saturday and my little stock truck motor with a cam BUSTED that azz all over the freeway. So, good luck to the ford guys, they finally have a good base powerplant.

jj74sd455

[quote=d00012;4548192]What about Pontiac!?

there are camaro guys and there are firebird guys and there are guys that like both, im the guy that likes firebirds only, sorry camaros
if the new mustang is faster than the 2011 camaro its their own fault for getting rid of competition between chevy and pontiac makes by dropping pontiac( they could have sold the brand to someone but they chose to kill it instead, bummer)

zraffz

LS based motors will always destroy anything Ford can design... I always wondered why the Cobra needed a supercharger to throw down comparable times to the LS1 f-bodies.

Congratulations to ford for finally making something good.

d00012

There was a guy in the midwest that owned a plant, but GM refused to sell the Pontiac name. I think GM is just waiting until profits go back up, and demand is high enough, to bring back the company that started the muscle era. Why kill a company that has been around longer than Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac? It wasn't losing money through them.

But that's off topic...

If only GM would listen to the REAL consumers and build a Camaro we will all be proud of (none of this 3,500lb+ nonsense, or huge wheels, do we really need them?)

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

The 20 inch wheel is todays 15. It is all part of design, nothing we can do about it. The car is 4000, ot like the 4300 lb challenger, still a pig though.

d00012

My bad, meant 3500, not 4500. :P

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Here is the latest from my local shop, LMR, builds the fastest rides from GM most of the time.

v10viper04

From what i have seen this new stang does have potential. What i am saying though is that the new 5.0 is only catching up to GM as far as power and easily made power goes. GM has always been on top of that. Its nice to see some close competition now. Now i haven't driven either but i don't care to, once i do that then i won't want to drive my Camaro anymore, i'll want a new one! haha Plus i have my Vette which will make the new 5.0 its slave when its done. lol I don't dislike the Mustangs b/c they are a Ford, i dislike stangs b/c there are too many of them and all the drivers think their car is the best (even the V6 guys). I like the newer stangs but i don't like the 2010+ rear end, its ugly to me.....

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I feel the same, the new stang should have stayed like the 05-09 body, i hate the euro looking roundness of the front and rear. Plus, the had to do a half a$$ cowl because the camaro has one stock.

The other issue i have is....who has taken a new camaro and done the same mode that were done to the mustang and ran one at the track? No one that i can find so far. But the new camaro has seen 500 RWHP on all motor.

I just dislike all the hype the new stang is getting, all the for fan boys and thinking it is the all powerful ruler of the world. When it is in fact just another american car that runs great. That is my issue, the ford fan boys just talk too much smack for no reason, and they make riccer excuses when they lose.

v10viper04

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WAY too much hype! Its a hell of a lot less powerful then the lS7 for example and gets worse gas mileage too. So tell me again hows its so much better than GM? They think this new 5.0 is going to rule all... I don't think so...

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Tell that to the guys that bought brand new LS1's back in '98....why did they get consistently faster after they had 5-10k miles on them?

Ughhh, the LS7 BETTER make more power

v10viper04

I did not say "Fully broken in" i said "essentially broken in". They are run at the factory throught all rpm ranges, i do believe most hit some kind of an engine dyno as well. Run in a booth(just the engine) and then the chassis dyno for a drivetrain test. That's how i have seen it done anyways.... LS series are just crazy to begin with man... no explaining a lot of things with engines.... Maybe you should explain factory freaks to me then...

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Cause the LS1 is not touched by the hand of god till it is off of the show room floor for a little while, LOL.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Dude, do you like talking yourself in circles? I made no direct quote or comment regarding "fully broken in" or "essentially broken in"...are you arguing with yourself? I have no idea what you're talking about

So that somehow refutes that fact that the LS1's progressively got faster with more miles on them? Or how about the GTO's and G8's that started getting better gas mileage as they got a few miles on them(so that theory is OK for our beloved LS1's but not a Ford motor?)....

I don't need to explain LS motors nor need an explanation regarding them, I've owned 2 of them, both faster than anything you have.

Everyone has this huge misconception that every LS1 fbody is a high 12 second car, that is simply NOT the case. Yes there are some factory freaks out there, some cars that are just outside of the norm but a majority of the stockers are mid 13 second cars...and that's around HERE with some of the best tracks and air in the country.

No one is debating the awesomeness that we call the LS motors but for crying out loud there IS more to the car world than GM motors. The FACT is the new 5.0 is a damn good motor...however you want to compare it to a 427CID, hand built low production LS7....that is abso-****in-lutely ridiculous....

BTW, before someone accuses me of swinging for Ford's nuts, look at my sig, not too many blown thirdgens around, not to mention the 4 other thirdgen's I've owned, my LS1 Z28 AND the C5.

Sorry for being able to look beyond my own biases.

God must have been slacking lol

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

LOL, i guess they made so many so fast he had to take tie to get to them, hahhahaa.

The LS is a brute force platform. Pushrod technology at it finest. We started doing it over 50 years ago, had to get it right some time.

I am dying to see what these new 5 liters do with more mods, i want to know if it is true that the heads are pretty much maxed out from the show room. Making over 1.5 HP per cube is harrrd to do....with old stiff, but the modern day efficiency is making it easier. Make the 302 make 500 FWHP and you are saying something.


I am awaiting to be impressed. So far the mods they did were nothing i was bow away with, i have not seen someone do the same to a new camaro, they usually went with a few bolt ons and a tun then a cam ect. 4.56 gears on a new SS and a set of slicks would roll out HARD because they would dead hook.


PS the automatic ss SUCKS, LOL.

v10viper04

May i ask you why your a *****? I simple explained what i said. You quoted me saying
Quote:
Originally Posted by v10viper04
Engines are basically "Broken it" before they leave the factory so the factory can see them run good.

Tell that to the guys that bought brand new LS1's back in '98....why did they get consistently faster after they had 5-10k miles on them?

And i explain that they were basically broken in, Not fully though, Hence why they get faster... Do you read? You are becoming kinda of defensive and
irritated for no reason bud... No need to insult my cars. Nice to see you have a faster car, did that make you feel better kid? An LS1 car? Why go back to a gen 1 then? You seem to whine a lot and spaz out.... Does bragging about your vehicles make you feel better about yourself? I have my 3 cars. I'm all set. YOur talking up the Ford motor so i'm talking up a GM one. The 5.0 seems to be Fords best new engine, so i'm comparing it with one of GM's better engines. And the GM LS7 is better, even the LS3 makes more power stock than that 5.0. I'm not an idiot, i can see the new 5.0 is an outstanding motor (only b/c nothing Ford has nothing else to offer) it stands out like crazy in their lineup. We have yet to see its full potential still. And I'm eagerly waiting to see it.

d00012

Many 2010 SSs driveshafts have snapped, same with the rear end, and twisted trailing arms (GMHT had only 2,600mi on a street driven 2010). All on STOCK tires. Why did they go to IRS? It's just more parts to break.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Who is spazing out? Certainly not me, I'm getting a kick out of your clueless and baseless ramblings, keep it up.

If you can't comprehend that comparing the 5.0 to a LS7 isn't apples to apples and is completely ridiculous then I don't know what to tell you. Here's a clue, GO TO THE TRACK instead of basing your opinions on youtube clips. What's next? Taking a 454 and saying it lays the smack down on a Ford 3.8?

Those silly facts keep getting in the way.

That's one thing I despised about my C5, I never could get used to the feeling of the IRS compared to the solid rear.

89fbirdformula

Ps, evolution performance just knocked out a 10 second pass...on MOTOR!

with a 100% factory stock untouched longblock...that is INSANE.

v10viper04

May i ask how I'm clueless? I have CLEARLY proved my point. You seem to have no options other than to insult me. Which by the way is funny b/c you look quite unintelligent doing so. Again did we specify a GM motor to compare the new 5.0 to? Not really, so the window was open for me to bring in a Superior GM engine. You think the new 5.0 is the fastest thing out there now and its the best engine EVER created! That's the way your coming off. And yes you are spazzing out, about the new 5.0. Weird how I have been to the track many times, and i have seen my share of cars. Your like everyone else out there and are a professional Race car driver and an engine specialist? That's pretty funny.

"Taking a 454 and saying it lays the smack down on a Ford 3.8? " idk how you got that idea but its pretty stupid. Again how is the new 5.0 Superior to the LS3? That's a comparable motor.... We all the know the past of 302 vs. 350. 350 usually coming out on top from what i have seen. And if the new 5.0 heads are already maxed out then that's funny as hell. Engine is probably putting out close to its max hp in stock form if that's the case. Sorry bud but I didn't have a problem with you until you started in on me. I actually feel bad for you....

I quote "I don't need to explain LS motors nor need an explanation regarding them, I've owned 2 of them, both faster than anything you have"
Wow big man right there.... I rest my case.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I see a few "probably's" and "if's". So you don't know do you? Nope, again, GO TO THE TRACK and see with your own eyes or look at time slips, not what some bozo posts on Youtube.

So my comparison of a 454 vs. 3.8 is ridiculous but a LS7 vs. 5.0 isn't? I love it


...and for the record "we all know the 350 came out on top", not in our thirdgen years dude, maybe a 91-92 speed density car but the 302 still beat our cars in stock form(again generally speaking) but what do I know, I guess I haven't watched enough Youtube videos are read enough Motor Trend issues. Damn racing/going to the track, meaningless compared to the power of internet BS.

Have fun dude, feel free to respond or whatever but you win, it's obvious you can't get past your biased when it's a fact the Mustang has gone faster than the SS in stock form. If you don't want to believe it that's fine, if you want to say it's not possible fine, if you want to raise the flag...even better. You have that right.

v10viper04

I will raise the flag, your incompetent of coming up with supporting facts, wheres your proof the new stang is faster? According to my magazine its not. Maybe the mag is incorrect but hell what do they know they only test hundreds of brand new cars a year....they got nothing on you! And want to bet i haven't been to the track? I have seen plenty of Camaros, Stangs, Firebirds, Vettes, G8's, Rice, etc run the track. Does it make you feel better trying to put me down? It makes you look quite foolish if you haven't already realized. Show me proof the new stang is THAT much faster. You basing you info off a company that went mostly through the new stang and its not anywhere near stock anymore.... Again point proven. Show me what you got and i'll believe you.....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

What company? I brought up no company of any sort, that was someone else....certainly not me, get your info straight.

So you ARE basing your opinion off of magazine times So you're saying that magazine times are consistent with the real world results? If so then ok....

BTW, I go the track, see with my own eyes, not what a magazine tells me.

Enough said, you win.

89fbirdformula

Get out of your mothers basement, put down the ***** magazine, and go to a track.. you big bad magazine racer you!

its been proven time and time again...mustangs faster stock for stock..

but since you like youtube, and take youtube as GOSPEL..

here you go newb!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHqbqGCCMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTL9psDWKjU

d00012

Motor Trend got the Mustang into the 12.7 range, and they couldn't get the Camaro under 12.9. GMHTcould only get it to 12.7 and had to replace the trailing arms (twisted and too much wheel hop), driveshafts (shattered), and put on C6 wheels with Nitto N05Rs.

I know it's another magazine, but it's all I got.

*Note* My times could be +- .1 sec

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Damn that is nuts!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

This thread officially has bombed.

J91

This thread bombed awhile ago, it's like a comical argument, but it is fun to watch. When I read people being judged on their knowledge,by how many posts they have, it becomes comical to me. Althoough I really like some of the wit going back and forth.....

v10viper04

Sorry bud but I'm not a newb, looks to me like you are though.

v10viper04

putting words in my mouth yet again, this is pathetic man. I never stated they were 100% accurate, real world is quite different. But from what i have seen they really aren't that much better of a car. You don't need to go out ant watch a car run the track to know it is fast... you really need to grow up. The new 5.0 is great, ok sure. But its BRAND new and you tards know nothing about it but yet you talk like its the motor that's been touched by an angel...

v10viper04

This forum in general has bombed, all the new little kids who are clueless about anything or think they know everything came onto the site about a year ago and new ones are coming on everyday.... And like some of the ones here they are stuck on one car being the BEST b/c it ran a fast time. No one has done the exstensive mods to the Camaro like the new stang so its not comparable but yet 2 ppl here say it will always get raped? Thats just a sad argument, no one knows what the new stang motors are capable of....

JT

iTrader: (1)

Since this thread has been moderated several times, and since it's not exactly ThirdGen related, this thread is being closed.

And it's the same people that continue to cause trouble in this, and other, threads. To those people, and you probably know if you're one of them, this is your warning. Some of you aren't new to being Banned or Moderated. We won't continue to babysit the same people on a repeated basis.

I know there is a few good people around in this section, but there's a pattern of some rather childish behavior, on a regular basis, in this section.

Some of you are really making yourself, and ThirdGen owners, look pretty bad with your behavior.