ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

They are not a POS as much as they are just a PITA when the opti goes out, it sucks, that simple.

The are not inferior in the sense that they are not a good engine, but they are not as good of a platform as the GEN II/III/IV. They were short lived and that hinders the need for aftermarket.

I will tell you what, when this guy gets his LS1 swapped Porsche dont, he can line them up with said LT1 Porsche

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...onversion.html

Otherwise, i have a friend with a LT1 vette that is having trouble finding someone as we speak that is reputable, LMR doesnt touch them and they are one of the baddest LS builders in the world. Dont know if RPM messes wit them or G force.

v10viper04

I doubt it. Your just a doubter on LT potential. I have seen plenty of LT's lay waste to sbc and LS cars. You keep bringing up the fact that sbc's have big block options as does the LS motors. And again i'm going to tell you im comparing comparable motors. LS1 and LT1 and SMALL block chevy... not big block... I said LS's have that as an advantage... as do gen 1 blocks.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, the LT1 is damn good if it is your thing, otherwise, i just dont see and advantage over the SBC, the reverse cooling is it, but all that doesnt matter when money is no concern. Not to mention maxed out with high compression. They have the same bottom end as the Vortec SBC, they can hold power without ARP bolts, but they are on borrowed time usually. SOME hold, but not many, so far, majority of these damn LS engines handle RPM in stock form in ways i never thought possible. Hell, i saw they make a main girdle for the LS...i dont know why, guess there is always someone trying to make some extra cash with a product.

LT1 is just a middle child i guess is the best way to put it. A Honda can run its **** off but i am not going to build one of those either, LOL.

F honda.

Camaro305SB

Its a proven fact that the LS engines are the best v8s GM has ever mass produced. Ever. The LTx is a good platform (and I've seen some HARD running LT1s) - but the LS1 is simply a better engine. I giggle when people make the comment that the LT1 makes better torque. Nowhere in its powerband does the LT1 make more torque than the LS1 at the same RPM.

Oh - and Hondas are slow :-P

v10viper04

OK, the LT1 makes it most torque (325) at 2400 rpms and the LS1 makes 335 at 4k. That is a fact... So explain how the LS1 is still holding at least 325 ft lbs at 2400 rpms then.... I doubt it considering peak torque comes in at 4,000 rpms, 1,600 rpms higher than the LT1.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Although the LT1 may have more torque at 2,400 RPM, why would you phrase that as if it's a bad thing that the LS1 makes peak torque higher in the RPM range than the LT1? Torque higher in the powerband = more peak power.

325 LB-FT of torque at 2,400 RPM = 148.51 horsepower.

335 LB-FT of torque at 4,000 RPM = 255.14 horsepower.

I can't really comment on which I think would be better, since I have never owned an LT1 or LS1, just an old Gen 1 SBC. Although, peak torque at 4 grand is pretty good.

Launch soft, shift slow, rev low, stay slow. I'd prefer nearly any engine that makes peak torque higher in the RPM range, compared to a similar engine that makes peak torque lower. I.e. V8 vs. V8. No 4 bangers for me.

Well... I don't know. I'd really love to own a Honda S2000. At least it has a proper drivetrain, rear wheel drive.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Not to mention the table top like power bands as to the LT1 just falling flat *** off in power and torque on dyno readings i have seen.

TheStangPoacher

DAMN your probably one of the only persons ive ever known to have it made so good. your 3rd gen is nice and that stance is amazing, but also that 72.... lol i used to think my dads 69 with a 502 was bad ***.... that flat black looks soo good and that blown 468 looks like some mad max ****. i bet that runs 9s and 10s all day. ahh man

v10viper04

Have you seen factory LS1 charts? They fall off just as quickly.... Look at this pic i found on corvette forum.... Doesn't look like the STOCK ls motors like much more than 6k. And to Shadow Z don't play that game, little 4 bangers make their torque and power very high and they don't have shiit for power...Every theory can be proved and disproved numerous times.

zachkuby87

ummm ok.......

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

The torque on the LS compared to a LT is just WAY different from each other, the LT sheets i have seen nose dive, look like a peaky mountain than the hills you see in that sheet.

J91

Man this thread just goes on and on. The Bottom line is-
1. The SBC is a great engine and when built right damn near bulletproof and can be very powerful.
2 The LT1 is a bastard in between motor. It does make great power and can fly when built right.
3. The LS motors are the best engines GM has ever produced. They flow better and are very strong. When built right they are damn near bulletproof and just plain old scream. They are the future of hotrodding as we know it... JMHO

v10viper04

Still you cant claim the LT is worse b/c it drops right off b/c as far as i'm concerned so does the LS... If the LS and LT had an aftermarket cam then that would be different... but I'm talking stock....

v10viper04

That is your opinion.

J91

Then go out and race a stock LS1 car or 2 or 3 for that matter and find out for yourself, just because something looks good on paper or a graph doesn't mean squat. Real world applications do. The LS is a faster engine when put up against an LT1.

v10viper04

When were talking stock yes, but i believe an LT1 built right can hang with/beat a modded LS1.

v10viper04

I love being the underdog here, everybody is so anti-LT1 and i have seen time and time again the LTs prove themselves against their "better".. the LS1. Maybe not in a full out race car no, but on street cars yes.

J91

So can my SBC, but it takes alot more to keep up w/LS motors. I am not gonna argue w/you, I have my opinion and you yours. Every time I get on here you are arguing w/ somebody about something. Have a good day....

zachkuby87

HONDAS SUCK

v10viper04

Weird how thats's not true what so ever, I love drama. I'm mature enough personally, A lot of the members here I don't believe are. And i'm not talking the guys in this thread in particular. There are a lot of them on thirdgen now. I discuss points that can be proven, not BS that comes from your "friends friend". Discussions are not arguments, he was stating his info I was stating mine. Would "assertive discussion" work better for you?

v10viper04

Hondas do suck and this thread should be locked.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yea, LT1 and Hondas, both can run good, but that doesnt mean they are worth a shiit to very many people, LOL.

J91

So what you are saying is that you are a drama queen, I get it! LOL

J91

I like the way you think!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

^^^^This


I don't get why this argument has been dragging on for so long. Yea you can build an LT1 to hang with an LS1 but not with similar mods. This is like saying "I'm going to date this fat girl because with some work and lots of weight loss, she can look good." Yea ok, but why not just start out with the hot chick in the first place? (IE LS1)

v10viper04

Again point proven, immature members....

v10viper04

Right back at ya with the LS1. See I didn't want to own one b/c i like being the underdog, but now I don't want to b/c i don't want to be just like most LS owners out there... d-bags, can't look at what is around them. The LS is the motor "touched by the hand of god", nothing else is worth a shiit... Just like i said in the earlier stages of our discussion, LS owners are mostly "big-headed".(O and i did prove that) This thread is worthless. Mods please lock this thread...

J91

oh my, i have been judged again by Queen Viper! Oh heavens no, what to do??? LMAO @ U!

5-0 Blackbird

I've been reading along with this thread and although I don't really care to get involved with the which is better argument, I will say that the biggest thing that makes me not care very much for the LSx motors are their owners. 8 or 9 outta 10 of them are jerks. Obviously the LSx platform is "better" otherwise I'd wonder why it replaced the earlier designs, but that's no reason to talk so much crap to others with earlier engines. I chose an LT motor for my 3rd gen Firebird because it's what works best "for me". It makes good power, gets me EFI, and it's cheap. If I could've afforded goin LS, trust me, I would've, but around here, you can't really touch a drivetrain for under like, $2,500. Even with the truck engines, I've only seen one in a junk yard and it was torn apart. As for the LT, it's a stepping stone in the engine world, just like the LS motors will be eventually, but they still deserve respect, just like the LS motors get, because LS's do make really good power. Like I said, I'm not arguing which is better, because that's always gonna end up being more of a personal opinion (just like we see in this thread, although obviously the LSx is the successor and should be better) and every person will have a different answer. It's more what's best for a givin person in their situation. We all drive third gen's and kill imports, so let's stick to that

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

If you have the cash, there is no reason to go LT1, if there is none available, i understand. If you just want to be different, you arent. So i just dont get going with the GEN II. Just because? Fine, i understand, but ti "HANG" with a LS1? Makes no since, most LT1s are 14 second cars, some 13s, most LS, 13s, some 12s. Stock that is, so from the get, it just stays pretty much even, the LT is beind. Stroke for stroke, the LS just goes harder, so there is not much reason to go LT1, everything about the LS is just the way to go unless you are broke, but that is just my opinion.

Otherwise, sorry, i like giving people a hard time and if i got to you, i was just palyin man, i like ot get a rise out of people from time to time. They can be strong, but not strong enough when it comes to brass tacks.

Like i said, i am the true bastard amongst friends, they have SBC, ot LS with EFI, i am carbed LS and catch hell from both sides and they can all look at my tail lights while i laugh. LOL

I like dragging LS1s and then talking shiit about how they cannot keep up with an old **** carbed truck motor with a cam. Some are just fools. But that is because the LS platform(98-02) F body has dropped to where idiots can afford them. So they people come with the price range, in 2002, there were not many people that were like that, they could not afford them.

5-0 Blackbird

That right there is the main problem, I'll agree with ya there. The punks that have access to em now do give em a bad image, in my eyes at least. They get a fast car cheap and think they're top of the heap all of a sudden. A decent amount are probably kids that dumped their civic off for it so they don't get beat on so much, lol. It's kinda like my neighbor who thinks his Oldsmobile Intrigue is fast (seriously) and was lookin at a LS1 Camaro. I'm sure he'll be one of them, seeing as though all he does is brag about his Intrigue, I could only imagine what he'd do when he gets his hands on that Camaro. Although, it is nice that they are coming down in price so it's easier for people like me to get one, but then again I'm not in that group of people that act like fools. I find that it'd be better for me to just purchase the whole LS car (around here) if I do end up getting one (I wouldn't mind getting a 98+ Trans am, lol), but I have a third gen project now, and would like to get an older Firebird next.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I wouldnt mind a 89 bare bones Formula or Firebird for a Ls swap, would destroy as it was the lightest platform third gen, but the newer ones? Wouldnt mind a 98-02 ram air for the wife.

nicz28

I have a crack-up story! ---- My last maro' was a 77 all stripped out and redone. I had an extremely loud 3 1/2 inch dual exhaust coming off of a 965 rwhp 502 big block. The thing put 880 ft pounds of torque to the ground and ran a 1/4 mile in 9.3 secs. yet one friday night at a lil street show i get challenged by a kid driving around in mommy and daddy's money mitsubishi evo xii. haha long story short- the caps on my slicks nearly flew off and landed a quater mile in front of him just out of rage. haha

v10viper04

WOW, dude you really need to grow up. This is a board where discussions are had, questions are asked and stories are told. We don't need babies on this forum. I don't anyways, idk about some of the other guys. You should probably think before you post. Sounds like your trying to make me mad b/c it makes you feel good. Well good luck to ya bud.

v10viper04

I do agree with what you said but I don't agree that there is no reason to go LT unless your broke. I do have the money to go LS but I don't find it feasible to go LS and have to dump off all my other toys getting money to afford the LS. I got snowmobiles, I got to finish the vette(which is taking most of my money now haha) and the Camaro is going to have work done this winter and I plan on repainting it and I am saving to buy a quad. Like blackbird said you can't touch an LS drivetrain around here for anything under like $2500. They get good money over here.(so if you got an LS to sell... haha) IF I had that money, sure I would go LS. But around here I don't find it practical.(In the money sense) Also I do argee with blackbird that its personal preference. I love my LTs. I also love the sound of an LS revving out. But i love the low grunt sound of the LT too. Both motors have potential. And quote "We all drive third gen's and kill imports, so let's stick to that" That is the bottom line here.

J91

Coming from someone who judges peoples intelligence by how many posts they've made, your insults and judgements don't carry any weight with me, you were the one who said you like drama. Assertive discussion is another way of saying argue. Conflict follows you around this board like white on rice, I will not reply to any more posts from you about me, so go ahead and call me more names if you like, I am still laughing at you like many other people on here. I grew up along time ago friend. You are an internet bench racer from what I can tell, and that ain't no compliment...

firebird1992

just ignore viper, that's the type of person that acts as if their superior to everyone. just crying for attention, and can only see the world form there narrow perception , just look at his posts he turn this thread into a LTs are better then LS or make it seem form one comment everyone who owns an LS is "big-headed". comment of an LS he shoots down and in turn gives an LT or just gives a rude comment

....................................

now back to the subject at was at a light today and some honda pulls up and revs up looks at me then the light changed he took off or tried just spinning tires I just laughed why is it that every honda drive needs to race a V8 or American car ?