whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Apparently my vid thread was closed for an unknown reason?? But anyways for those of you saying roll racing is stupid....why? I understand our cars are good for nothing else than to rocket off the line through the first 2 gears in stock form, but drag racing is not the only type of racing, and in some instances, I think it's stupid.

There is so much room for error in drag racing and you can get a "15" second car to beat a "12" second car just from user error. Roll racing however truely shows which car is faster and pulls harder with no error....just pure power. I personally like to see how a cars engine and drivetrain are set up to "pull" on the highway. Some cars that do an 11 second 1/4 fall on there faces on the highway. My brothers supercharged mustang can't do better than a 13.4 at the track, but on the highway he has pulled on mid to low 12 second cars. It's just the way the car is set up, and that is why drag racing is not for everyone!

So while I like both, I want to hear your opinions on why you think either one is good or bad.

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

Please point me in the direction of the "roll racing" sanctioning body.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

What? Like what it is? Sorry, not understanding your question lol.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

if you want to read PAGES AND PAGES on "roll vs dig racing" go to ls1tech.com and search, tons of garbage threads about it over there we don't need it here.

and you statement of "roll racing shows who has more power" is not true, one car may be in the power band and one may not be from a given speed (due to gearing differences) so that part of your argument is disproved already.

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

Where is it? Show me.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Actually, our cars are VERY good at road racing & autocross in STOCK form. While they may not be the best, in stock horsepower-wise, in drag racing...They really excel at handling!

BTW.....If you already started one thread about "roll racing" & it got closed, then you started ANOTHER thread about "roll racing"? It'll get closed by a Mod too. And they won't exactly like you restarting another topic, that has already been closed.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

True, but the intent of a roll race is to have both cars start out at a speed/rpm range thats suitable for the setup.

I like the idea of roll racing because with high hp cars you dont hook at all on the street until over 50-60mph anyway. Heck its hard to hook much at all on the street period. Dig race just shows a drivers racing skill with the car, roll race will prove the faster car assuming both start in the right power band. Again this shows acceleration as in trap speed, not ET's...so if one were to go to the track you could see car A trap faster than Car B but not run quicker ET's.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

i agree completely with you orr, if ^ is true, but a dig is from a ZERO mph roll every time, and a roll race is from a XXmph roll which never gets the power bands PERFECT for each car, one will always have some small advantage. i guess my main problem with roll racing is while it's fun and definitely not "a fake race" it doesn't have the consistency that dig racing does. thats looking at it from the perspective of the driver being a "part" of the car, if you want to pit car vs car and take out the driver mod yeah a roll may be a better test

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Uhhh, there isn't one....but then again, drag racing has been around forever. Roll racing is a type of racing as well, just like drag racing. Sorry if there is no "sanctioning body" for it.

And Stephen, my old thread was just a vid I posted and a few people made comments and then it got closed. I have no idea why, but it wasn't to start this argument....it was just to show my vid.

Orr89rocz, thank you....that is why I like roll racing. When you have 2 500+ RWHP cars, they will not hook off the line. I personally think it's dumb to modify a car with huge slicks, line lock, blah blah blah that you are going to primarily use as a STREET car, just to get it to hook the few times you do take it to the track. I love the look of 17-18" wheels with low profile meats, suspension goodies for handling, and a lowered stance. I also love the looks of a drag car, but they are just not the best for the street.

And I know our cars handle awesome from the factory, but I meant power wise they are not the greatest...they tend to crap out after 2nd gear and stop pulling at 4500 RPM.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I think your vid did not focus on thirdgens so due to lack of thirdgen content,, it was locked. That may have been a partial reason or the reason, either way get some thirdgens in there and it will be a sweet vid

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

roll racing is something you do while cruising around, like driving at 30mph and pull up next to someone you want to race, and go from a 30 roll. Import guys mainly do this due to turbo lag and traction problems from a dig (stopped). A good built car should be able to launch from a stop......excuses like "I can't get traction from a dig...." and so on are just excuses for poor driving ablility or poor car setup. If a car is setup well with a good driver and is actually faster than the car it is racing, then it doesn't matter if it is from a stop or roll, the faster car with better driver should win every time. and there's my two pennies.

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

Drifting hasnt been around long either and they're sanctioned. Whats "roll racing" excuse? Its not "just like drag racing". Drag racing requires skill and knowledge. If you're brother had either, he wouldn't run 13.4's.

Roll racing is for people who cant handle what they built, or cant figure out how to get it to hookup. Amateur hour.

monkihead

If you want roll racing buy a supra. Plain and simple. I have one, from a dig it sucks(lack of stiffer suspension), but from a roll its a rocket. 30mph roll still has no traction, 60mph is minimal speed for launch.

It doesn't take much to run on the highway, big turbo, low ratio gears and a prayer nothing gets in front of you. If you have to complain that you "don't like drag racing" your car is probably slow. I've had many slow cars and a few quick ones.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Orr89RocZ is correct. The sole reason why your "roll racing" thread was closed was due to your video being non-ThirdGen content with just a quick second of your ThirdGen sitting in your garage at the very end. It was completely non-ThirdGen. This is a violation of our posted rules in this section, as well as in general.

I don't think there is an issue with the topic "roll racing", especially between ThirdGens, atleast per forum rules.

Thanks.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'll give you guys my car for an afternoon ... if you can figure out how to hook up 650whp on the street without starting at a roll from 55-60 mph, OR taking 2 minutes to get up to speed from a dig, then I'll agree with you on these statements. i'll even put the ET streets on the car first.

High hp cars need to roll race if your going to street race or else its just boring. Having to pedal/baby the car to 60mph isnt fun nor is it really racing. If you want a dig race go to the track or prep the street like the track..its been done before.

I just dont aggree with these statements. Its not about being able to handle the car, its about using the power you make and on the street it just wont happen. Now with cars with good tire and under 400whp, you probably can get away with dig racing. My 383 hooked ok but still had to baby first til 5000 rpm before i could smash it. My turbo car doesnt stand a chance to hook even at 3rd roll ons from 55 mph



Oh and for the sake of arguement here is a story of roll racing. My stalled/3.42 gear/et street full exhaust Stealth ram intake L98 ran 12.95 at 103.8 in the cold air. My buddy's bolt on 95 LT1 car on street tires and stock converter ran 12.96 at 106 mph. Dig race at the Track i would jump hard on him with the better 60 foot but he'd catch me by the stripe.

On the street, from rolls at 40-55 mph, he'd DESTROY ME. Roll racing takes out the launch factor which is the biggest thing in a dig race. Thats why AWD cars destroy most on the street at the initial launch.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Not trying to be an *** or anything, but have you ever had a car with real horsepower? I see in your sig you have an 88 GTA....is it stock? I love when people bring up the excuses like "if you can't drag your car, you have no talent," because thats BS. I have drag raced my fair share of cars and have always come within a few tenths of what they are rated at from the factory. People that bring up these kinds of excuses have clearly never owned a turbo car or basically any car with any real "*****."

Easy enough to just stomp the pedal and go in a stock auto L98......try that in a turbocharged 5.3 LSx with a 6 speed and about 520RWHP, which I am building for mine currently. You would need a huge slick for that kind of power or you will be 1/4 throttle through the first 2 gears and by that time, you would probably lose to a V6 mustang.

For a car to fight wind resistance and still put lengths on another car on a highway roll, that takes horsepower. Then brake boosting comes into play and shifting. There is skill involved in roll racing as well, and as far as a "sanctioned body," check out all the M board guys....they have a shutdown runway they use for roll racing meets. It's more popular accross seas than it is here.


And to the moderator, I get why the vid was closed now. Never thought about that but I just wanted peoples opinions on it. Unfortunately my third gen is in the works right now or you better believe it would have replaced my crappy shelby if it was done!!!

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

Orr, you're one of the few exceptions. About .8% of people on the street are pushing that kind of power. There is no excuse a for a 300-400whp (or there about) car to be roll racing. None.

Honestly in your cars case I would think it to be extremely dangerous to even take that car WOT on the street.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

And by the way, my brother is not here to defend himself so I'd rather you not insult him. Lets see what you run in a mustang thats set up to be a "sleeper" with 375 RWHP and the stock wheels with 235 tires on them and 3.73's! I guarantee you would spin through 1st and most of second, even trying to pedal it.

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

First, I wouldn't make assumptions. Second, I hardly consider a L98 to be anything special and im not basing any of this conversation on the GTA.

Actually get to that power then tell us how "it is".

So its not even a sanctioned form of racing. Understood.

danandamy

Not to get into the middle of a pissing match or anything but.....

Call me old school but everytime someone brings up roll racing, it's usually after having their *** handed to them in a traditional race, not quite as bad as the ***** fly by or anything but still. I understand the points being made about having traction problems and such and I'm not sayin they're not legit points but it still comes out sounding like excuses. As far as a slower car beating a faster car due to driver error, isn't that kind of the point of a race, driver skill I mean? If not, then why not be be safe and keep it off the streets (cause that's where roll racing has to take place) and just meet up at a dyno day and dyno two cars and see which one is "more powerful".

Dan

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

I couldnt have said it better myself.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I get where your coming from with the dyno day, but theres just no adrenaline rush in that. I love seeing cars making big power on the dyno though! And I havn't had a race in probably 4 months, nor have I had my *** handed to me, so thats not why. I just love the style and speed in roll racing. Plus the fact that roll racing is MUCH easier on your tranny and rear end!!!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHA build your car first before you start talking smack on other peoples rides. and if your going to have an turbo lsx swap you better be pushing more than 520rwhp lol

1brd2brd3brd4

In my oppinion you should start off facing the opposite way in drag racing and have to swing the cars around before you go straight. Whether your going from a dig or a roll.................."You can teach a monkey to drive in a straight line!"

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It is, thats why i dont do it much if only for a second or 2. Keep it at the track where you can use the power and its much more fun...just sucks that the car is a street car and not spec'd to run the times it runs, so once again, its hard to have fun legally as well

fryer1979

Now that would be crazy fun! Big potential for smashed up cars making that u-turn though. Still, it would be a blast.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Which is why Autocross & Road Racing rock. They test EVERY aspect of both the car AND the driver.

Put the U-turn at the 1/8 mile though!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Dude are you for real? You say that like 520 WHP is easy to get. Do you even know what half that feels like? It's a bone stock 5.3 with a T70 turbo. Do some frigin research before you come on here thinking you know everything. I have been researching this engine combo for 6 months now, and yes, thats what they make. Pretty good for a 900$ engine with a turbo thrown on it if you ask me. A turbo on a 4th gen LS1 will only make mid 400 whp unless you want to blow the motor!!! What does your car make, 300 whp on a good day with that ZZ4 engine?

I have PLENTY of freinds with high horsepower cars. I have personally driven some of them myself, and have been in others for rides. I know how a car with that power feels and acts enough so that I can talk. And yes, mine is in process right now but who cares. I have had a cammed 305 TPI in my car, then a 355 with heads, cam, and mini ram, and now the 5.3 is in process. I have done multiple engine swaps and auto to manual conversions. I'm not an amateur to these cars.

fryer1979

Kind of why I always liked bracket racing when I lived near a track; the cars had to be reliable and the driver has to be skilled enough to remain consistant. I did a little autocrossing as well and really enjoyed that. It just sucks that the closest drag strip is 2 hours away, and the nearest road course is at least 4 hours. But that is just another straw in the stack of reasons I am looking to move in the next five years.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

- removed offensive post -

EDIT: and im outta this thread, we are taking this way off course, let it get back on topic. pm me back if you wanna keep arguing lol. post up some sweet roll racing vids once the turbo setup is together (<for real)

chevy boi

" if you want a roll go to the bakery" sorry i had to, thats what all the fast cars around here say.

anyways the reason people dont like roll racing is because of a lot of BS. when you drag race the one who gets there first wins, no excuses. with roll racing people complaine about missing gears, wrong power band, and the worst thing is that there is no finish line. i have seen cars on the freeway go to stupid speeds because neither one of them could run away. so with drag racing two 500 hp cars will finish a race in say 11 sec. if they go from a roll they can go up to 180 before they decide to stop. along with that the only real place to go from a roll is on the freeway so that means not only is it always illegal, but also it has a higher possiblity of hurting other people.

and the excuse that you can get it to hook up is just that a excuse. drag racing has been around long enough that you can see grassroot racers hooking 1000hp cars at the track. we have the technology to get cars to gain traction.

IROCThe5.7L

I think Orr's post pretty much hit the nail on the head. For the "most" part, it takes all the driver error out. In "most" cases, it's going to show which car is the faster 1/4 car. I've beaten a few LS1's off red lights back when I had TPI and great traction. But as soon as we did a roll, well I'm sure you can imagine what happened. But overall the LS1 is the faster car.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with roll racing. I use to say to myself "Oh boy, here comes a loss" when I raced LS1's, SRT-4's...etc from a roll. Now after the H/C/I swap, I love it. The car pulls to 6000RPM with ease. And there is still plenty of torque for the street.

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

huge slick to hook up 500rwhp on the street huh

chevy boi

pretty much lol. hey nice vid of you and that 4th gen.

vwdave

This is kinda close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWIEFVnX5DI

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Me and a 4th gen??

And as far as the slicks, yes, 500 whp would require a big drag radial or "slick" to hook. show me a car that does hook without a tire like that!

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

shhhh i donno what you're talking about

gotabekidding

Interesting responses, all of them.

I have drag raced as well as road raced currently and in the past.

There is more to drag racing , than what you can teach a monkey to do!
I used to think that until I tried it, because it was so simple, and had my a** handed to me by an experienced driver in half the car that I had.
There is a bunch of timing and skill necessary to drag race well.
Different skills are necessary for any racing.

Roll racing should be considered for sanctioning by someone for all the points that have been made, but until then it is a street race.
I am not one for street racing - go to a track or course!
Have been to and had some awesome street races when I was younger, until some people died and injured a few more on his way out of this world. Now I keep it to the track or course.

In a non related instance, recently in or near Baton Rouge there was a street race with some good $$$ at stake. The owner of a camaro had someone else drive his car. Something went wrong, the Camaro was totaled and the driver was killed. NOBODY even tried to check on or try to get the driver out, not even the owner of the car who was the driver's friend as well. They all scattered like a **** roach when the light is turned on! ALL COWARDS!

If you have to street race, that is a personal choice!
I can not support it, get it sanctioned and take it off the streets!

1brd2brd3brd4

Just to let you know, the whole "monkey in a straight line" thing is kind of a joke.............I cut my teeth on dirt track racing. Now that I dont do that anymore I go to local drag strips on test and tune night just to play and see what I can do. I'm not the greatest but I damn sure aint the worst!!! LOL

DrummerDad

For the record, Tim Lynch went 6.50s at well over 200 mph, on a 10.5 inch tire. Granted thats still a slick, and actually measures closer to 11 inches wide, but has to be making around 2500 hp to go that fast.

I would have posted a video, but it was a mustang. But either way, 500 hp isnt a problem, with a well set up suspension. There are guys running deep into the 7s and 8s, with fully street legal cars, and DOT tires. Your looking at somewhere around low 11s, maybe, with a full weight car? You could, if you wanted too, run that car well into the 9s, without even as much as a mini tub.

Fdeleonz28

if u were a real driver, u would kno wut ur car can do..u kno if ur car is built for a launch or built for some high-end hp...if ur car is for launching...THEN DONT RACE FROM A ROLL..and if ur car iz for high-end power..THEN DONT RACE FROM A LAUNCH..simple as that... u put money on wut u KNOW ur car is built for.. my 2 cents

1brd2brd3brd4

I was thinking about the 10.5 inch class earlier today and you beat me to it!! LOL Yes tires are important but suspention is every bit as important to hook up. And that goes for all types of racing. I'm not sure if you know it or not, but even from a roll you can break the tires loose.

fryer1979

Hell, my wife's '94 formula with the stock LT1 and 4L60E would slip a little sideways when you punch it to pass an 18 wheeler at 55mph. I think her car is geared about 3.43, but I'm not sure. Granted this was when she had quite a bit less miles on her, but every now and then if the road surface (no I'm not talking about snow, ice, water, mud or sand) is right she'll shift a little on a pass.

1brd2brd3brd4

It should have 3:24 gear if stock. I have never broke loose at 55 in my 93 formula but from a 25-30 mph roll it damn sure will if you are in first or second gear. But mine has 3:73's and a few little things done to it. Now, I never aired the tires down at the strip and it would push through a pair of Nittos when it hit second and still churp third with 35psi in them.

1bad71

how about running a 275 drag radial and going mid 7's!

or our new class of "street tires" no drag radials, that are running 10's!

i guess if you can't make the car work on a street tire, you can always "roll race"

fryer1979

To be fair, she stopped breaking loose once we put a set of 275/45ZR17s on her, and it was with a 245/55r16 (or something close, its been almost 10 years since we had the stock wheels out of the shed). The 'bird did only have about 50,000 miles on the clock when we first got her, so she was still quite young too. She'll still come loose after a pedal stomp at a slow roll (20 mph or less), whenever she hits first gear on the downshift. The only mods she has now is a K&N air filter, a set of MSD plug wires, and the before mentioned 17" wheels and tires.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

My car is pushing 500 horses and I don't run a slick....the class I run out at the track requires a non-slick (not even a street slick tire).....I run 255/50/16's......I Just don't smash the gas to the floor when I start, roll down on it nice and smooth.....you have to drive the car....not just press a pedal down...a lot of people run small slicks or no slick on plenty of horespower.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah you can hook on a small tire at the track but still on the street you cant hook much at all. I dont like pedaling

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Man, i have seen bone stock LS1s WAY over 400 RWHP and they lived. There is a 4.8 bone stock with 700 RWHP on the stock short block, do more research, the engines that blow are usually not tuned correct on forced induction.






Did you text that from your phone???.....




Anyways, i like to see the most HP from a dig, we have spots that hook DAMN well, but they are "designated spots", and yes, the roll racers are usually 600+ RWHP.

Myself, asking to go from a roll is an insult because i have 4.30 gears and the asshat asking to roll has some 2.73, 3.23 or some crap like that, i tell them get some gears and come back.

DrummerDad

It seems to me that the biggest problem with roll racing is legality. Its being done on the public roads, in uncontrollable (IDK how much you argue, a public road is not controlled) circumstances, and like it or not, its illegal, and stupid.

Of course, this is the theoretical and street racing section, so its to be expected that some questionable situations will be brought up, and even glamorized. Some people like to race on the street. Some dont. Its a waste of time trying to convince anyone who does not approve of it, thats its a legitimate way to take place in a race.

But as far as it being a question of setup, or the aftermarkets ability to provide quality components for controlling wheelspin, or even the argument that there is a threshold of horsepower, after which there is no conceivable way to control wheelspin.....Thats just ridiculous. Tire technology, and suspension geometry have been well studied and documented, even on this site. If you want to go fast, and hook, you can find the answers here, as well as about a million other sites.