Originally Posted by Ron_90

If you have an import and a muscle show right next to each other, both filled with the same age guys, and then let a bunch of girls in they'd almost certainly go to the muscle car show
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Originally Posted by SKELITOR117

Yah, mostly metal head chicks. It's a pretty metal car. But hay, thats how I roll.

Originally Posted by Ron_90

OK, now that I'm done filling out my college applications I can engage in pointless debate of all kinds and argue my points to the death even if I'm wrong.

Sure, it's a perfectly good commuter car- I spent a fair amount of time in my aunt's Prius and she was getting 48-51 mpg highway. Electric motors have max torque available from 0rpm so I don't doubt you on the pickup.

Now let's work from the assumption that I am to only make modifications that improve fuel economy and will use it as a DD.
1. Whole exhaust done with mostly used parts for around $250
2. Install EBL Flash to program- piece of cake $350
3. Install higher capacity fuel pump because of headers $50
4. Clean fuel injectors (just to be safe, yanno?) $50
5. Re-ring pistons $100 incl cost of engine stand
6. Do a little port work on the heads, nothing major $0
7. Install a used Torsen rear with 2.73 gears- can't lose control in bad weather $150
8. Oh no, my transmission needs a rebuild!!! $1000
9. Damn this thing's riding rough- new shocks and struts and poly bushings. I'll even get new springs while I'm at it.. $350
10. Hmm, I could use an oil change $30
11. I could use a new water pump, aw hell I'll replace the belt too. $100
12. You know what, I think I'll take care of the cracked dash pad, it's been a few years. $30
13. New battery. One that'll last me a good few years $60
...let me know when I hit $28,500

Actually, I think I'll see how much gas that gets me. I'll use $3.50 per gallon- gas prices have stayed relatively stable when adjusted for inflation.

Let's say I average 25 mpg- not unrealistic.
Now let's say I drive uh.. 20,000 miles per year. Definitely more than average.
That's 800 gallons per year vs 400; $2800 vs $1400

Over 10 years that's $28,000. Add $500 because I like Mountain Dew. That's $28,500. Add the cost of my car- $2500 and I have spent $31,000.

On the other hand the guy that bought the Prius spent $14,000. He probably doesn't even drink soda so I won't add $500 for Mountain Dew stops. Add the cost of the car and he'll have spent $45,000. Not even bothering to mention the taxes at purchase (yes I know you get a tax break) or interest due to car payments.

Now let's factor in maintenance and upgrades.

Me: I'm not going to bother adding up all the crap I posted before so I'll make it $3,000. And then I'll triple that- $9,000. Then I'll add on another $2,000 for some other stuff. And I'll add another $500 (I really like mountain dew).
So far I've spent $42,500 to keep my car running for 10 years. Not bad! I got to have a fun, cool commuter car and still spent less than the guy in the Prius spent on gas and the purchase of his car.

Now the guy in the base-line Prius has to tack on maintenance. Toyotacare only lasted for just over a year if he's driving the same amount of miles. Actually, I'm going to be super-nice. I'm going to say that every part of his car is enhanced with kryptonite (except the battery). No maintenance. But wait! you need a new battery. That'll be $2,300 sir (I'm assuming that the purchaser of this Prius is man enough to do this task himself)

So after nearly 11 hypothetical years I am finally bested by the Prius not even superman can hurt. Not a bad run IMO.

As for pollution, sure they use less gas buts far more resources go into the production of the Prius than do many other cars. Imagine the engineering and resources that went into producing the latest Prius with an Atkinson cycle engine. (Gemma Atkinson ain't bad though *Do not open this at work* http://images.psxextreme.com/wallpap...tkinson_02.jpg )

The cost of development and installation for parts on my car is extremely low. Why? 'Cause the parts have been out there for ages and almost everything on an SBC can be made to work on another SBC so I'll be ok with a bunch of used parts and the occasional new part that there have already been so many copies made of that developmental costs are largely irrelevant. Plus, by doing all the work myself I actually spend time that would be otherwise wasted investing in myself in both the knowledge I gain and in the money I save.




I can't really debate anything here except for the fact that a battery with a 3 year lifespan is horrible. I think 5 is a much more reasonable number. Edge: Non-hybrid

Probably the worst thing I've learned in doing all this research is that the batteries in all my old R/C cars are toxic




As I've said, they're certainly not horrible as far as a commuter car goes. If someone wants to spend 30-40k on a car that only gives them good gas mileage, they can do it. The reason people so frequently make that comparison is probably because we all associate green with slow. Not like you'll ever stand in the parking lot as everybody leaves a car show, sniff the air and say "My this spring air smells ripe with the flavor of life"



True. Your point is valid.



Ok, you got me there.

Also, Jeff Dunham on the Prius: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQcSOP2AzXU

And because this is the internet and there are no real rules about moderation, and I'm a fairly new member: I would like to ask forgiveness to be given for my scathing denunciation of your views and that I not be sentenced to the Kingdom of Ban (seriously, that would damn near kill me. I have a lot of stuff I'm doing with my car now and 2 deals pending)

Originally Posted by Sick92

Haha it's definitely out there man. It's good to see a unique car that actually holds a decent personality. Usually when I see these cars "individualized", they get dumb **** like 22" chrome, or cup holders drilled straight into the dash....
Makes me cringe everytime lol

Originally Posted by freaky

metal girls are hot but country girls are the hottest an ol camaros draw them around here

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

Hate on the Prius all you want, but it's the technology that is in it, is the direction of vehicles for years to come.
)

Originally Posted by Six_Shooter

What you're forgetting about in you're little "comparison" is the resources and energy used to produce the Camaro originally, plus all of the maintenance and replacement parts before you bought it. Advantage: Prius

Originally Posted by Andrew James

I still have not comprehended why there is an individual here, whom dislikes Thirdgen Camaro/Firebirds and just so happens to be a Moderator here.

Do your mod stuff, put in your last word and lock the thread before anyone can argue there point again.

Originally Posted by rx7speed

don't know if it is quite that he dislikes thirdgens but rather he is just more honest and realistic about thirdgens rather then soem of the members here who think they are the highest piece of heaven out there.

Originally Posted by 87ohcamaro

Its a site specifically for third gen owners and lovers. if you don't love them or have the highest regard for them, then why be on this forum at all?

Originally Posted by midias

For me it is because a THIRDGEN is one of my many toys. It sits next to my 3 hondas and my toyota. I like my thirdgen a lot I got it because I missed having a V8 and it was the cheapest option at the time but it is not nearly my fastest or most reliable vehicle. It is probably the second slowest, least reliable and worst on gas. That being said it is still very fun to drive and a great car it just needs a lot of work.

I am on a number of forums one or more for each vehicle and others for hobbies that don't need a motor. I have the same opinion on each forum and I don't let the main topic of the forum change that.

Originally Posted by whitedevilTA

Is that why at a muscle car show, you have a bunch of beat looking harley chicks, but at nopi or any of the import events, there are gorgeous half naked girls having wet t-shirt contests and strutting around being photographed on the cars? But honestly, I have always seen much better quality women at the import shows than the muscle car shows. The import scene is young, hip, and whats "in" now, and thats what attracts the women.

And as far as the prius, you know what they say about the factories that make the batteries....."don't drink the water."

Originally Posted by whitedevilTA

Is that why at a muscle car show, you have a bunch of beat looking harley chicks, but at nopi or any of the import events, there are gorgeous half naked girls having wet t-shirt contests and strutting around being photographed on the cars? But honestly, I have always seen much better quality women at the import shows than the muscle car shows. The import scene is young, hip, and whats "in" now, and thats what attracts the women.

And as far as the prius, you know what they say about the factories that make the batteries....."don't drink the water."

Originally Posted by rx7speed

don't know if it is quite that he dislikes thirdgens but rather he is just more honest and realistic about thirdgens rather then soem of the members here who think they are the highest piece of heaven out there.

Originally Posted by 87ohcamaro

Its a site specifically for third gen owners and lovers. if you don't love them or have the highest regard for them, then why be on this forum at all?

Originally Posted by Andrew James

This is a Third-Gen enthusiast forum. Not for someone who prefers a different car and has nothing to do with Third-Gens, to come bash them.

It's like me joining a Honda forum(Which I am on one incidentally for when I owned my Accord) and pointing out all the faults of some one's Accord and how a Firebird is far superior.

Originally Posted by 85-87IROC-LB9s

These tuners and imports are okay, but it's not American.

Originally Posted by KuroNeko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7eArZ2CsSA

still better than a honda

Originally Posted by KuroNeko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7eArZ2CsSA

still better than a honda

Originally Posted by midias

In what way? The 30 or more less Hp than a civic? The way it eats more gas than a honda? How is the iron duke better than a honda. I base model civic would smoke an I4 3rd gen.

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

A 90's base escort could outrun a Iron Duke thirdgen. 88hp, but only 2200lbs. Does that make the Escort fast? God no, the Escort is still one of the slowest cars I've ever driven. 1/4 mile? Hows 19.1 seconds @ 71mph for slow?

Originally Posted by midias

In what way? The 30 or more less Hp than a civic? The way it eats more gas than a honda? How is the iron duke better than a honda. I base model civic would smoke an I4 3rd gen.

Originally Posted by KuroNeko

i never said it was faster, but id drive that before id drive a foreign 4cyl. not in an america is best way, just that i hate 4 cylinders period.

Originally Posted by rx7speed

you can still have the highest respect for a thirdgen yet know it's not a slice of heaven and think it is the wondercar.
there is a difference between fantasy and reality. some of us live in fantasy with what our cars are and are capable of, others live in reality and know while the cars might be good know they still are not perfect.

I would say many of our members live in fantasy and dislike it when someone else lives in reality.

Originally Posted by sailtexas186548

while the tech in may be in more and more cars in the near futures, the majority of technology in the prius is little more than a quick solution to make money off of the "green" movement. The overall impact of production of it's batteries alone produces an insane amount of very toxic waste totally negating its "enviro frindly image" people are just too stupid to realize the "green movement" is about green money not a green planet.

super high efficiency petroleum fueled motors are really the most viable option as well as lighter cars in the foreseeable future, LNG and H2 are impractical due to onboard storage and availability issues

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

Right. This must be that fantasy world people are talking about. You've got rose colored glasses on. The Iron Duke was discontinued for a reason. It was heavy, suffered from nasty NVH, and was a poor performer out of the gate, SuperDuty program not withstanding.

Originally Posted by Sick92

How is something that is purely opinion based, which differentiates between people deemed "fantasy"? Just because some people don't like those cars, doesn't make those people any more right than you for liking them.

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

The iron duke being worse than other competing honda engines is not an opinion. If there is one thing that Honda can do, its build an inline-4. They specialize in it. The honda engines had better output, better drivability, less NVH...etc goes on and on.

Honda simply makes better 4 cylinder engines.

The Ecotec is a great engine, especially the LNF turbocharged ecotecs. But in the Iron Duke days nobody liked the engine for good reason.

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

The iron duke being worse than other competing honda engines is not an opinion. If there is one thing that Honda can do, its build an inline-4. They specialize in it. The honda engines had better output, better drivability, less NVH...etc goes on and on.

Honda simply makes better 4 cylinder engines.

The Ecotec is a great engine, especially the LNF turbocharged ecotecs. But in the Iron Duke days nobody liked the engine for good reason.

Originally Posted by midias

Ugg the 4g63 Notorious for going boom but at least they got better after they ditched the 6 bolt and even later when they became the evo motor. At 1500hp they don't last long, usually only long enough to finish the dyno session then the boos is lowered

As for time period I would take a honda A series from the 80s over ay iron duke. My 1986 honda 750 even makes more power than an iron duke.

Originally Posted by rx7speed

go ahead with the trolling it's fine. it's not the size of your words just more of what you are saying and why.

so I'm not sure what you are trying to bring to the table here with your smart attitude when it seems you are just recycling something that was said earlier.
.

Originally Posted by whitedevilTA

The iron duke was junk...nuff said. My 1990 civic with a 1.5 liter makes 90 HP stock. The iron duke was something like 70 wasn't it? Out of a 2.5 liter? Very innefficient and very poorly designed. It was basically a "last act of a desperate man" deal and was done to try to offset the fuel mileage of the V8 equipped cars due to the govt. fuel crunch on car manufacturers. Once they started putting fuel injection on the majority of the 3rd gens in the mid 80's, that engine dissapeared real quick, and for good reason.

I still think a nice iron duke car is sort of cool for collector purposes, but in a "quality" perspective, it is nothing more than piece of junk.

Originally Posted by walkthelin3

No matter how you look at it guys, you are comparing 20+ year old technology to new tech... 80's and under jap cars wernt fast . That would be like comparing an 02 ws6 vs an 86 civic... Pointless...

Originally Posted by scorp88

I admit, I didn't read all posts in thier totality, guilty. But this is just endless.

Originally Posted by rx7speed

but you know you can't stop can you.

*waits for scorps next reply*

Originally Posted by scorp88

I owned a '03 civic 5 speed. It was pretty good on gas. 42-43 mpg highway. My wife drove company focus, 40 mpg highway.
I am sorry if I repeat somebody's statement, but only real advantage of hybrid is in a traffic light riddled city where it doesn't sit idling but turns engine off.
But how much that replacement battery will cost eventually?

Originally Posted by RubberDucky

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

Add that 350-TPI to the 260Z and see if you have any gain over the L28...