Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
06-09-2008, 10:24 PM
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Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
Found this while surfing around. Figured you guys might be interested in it...
General Motors is considering a four-cylinder engine for the new Chevrolet Camaro as a response to rising fuel prices.
Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.
GM has said it plans V-8 and V-6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed to Automotive News that the V-6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V-6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V-6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.
Low-priced version dropped
In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V-6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.
Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V-6s. GM will position both the V-6 and V-8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.
The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V-6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V-6.
Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V-8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V-8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.
But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V-6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.
“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V-8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V-6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.
“This time, the V-6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V-6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”
We are going to be above Mustang"
Lutz said that with the V-6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V-6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.
Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.
The Mustang V-6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V-8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.
“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.
GM has said it plans V-8 and V-6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed to Automotive News that the V-6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V-6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V-6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.
Low-priced version dropped
In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V-6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.
Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V-6s. GM will position both the V-6 and V-8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.
The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V-6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V-6.
Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V-8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V-8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.
But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V-6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.
“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V-8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V-6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.
“This time, the V-6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V-6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”
We are going to be above Mustang"
Lutz said that with the V-6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V-6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.
Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.
The Mustang V-6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V-8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.
“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
06-09-2008, 10:32 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
It has been rumored that they are looking into the 4-cylinder supercharged engine that they use in the Cobalt SS.
06-09-2008, 10:56 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
With the V6 5th gen cranking out 260 HP, beating our best 245 HP V8s (stock for stock), why do I suspect the 4 cylinder 5th gens will kick our gas too.....
06-10-2008, 07:01 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
Id prefere the new turbo I4 in the 08 or 09 Cobalt SS's. Thats the way to go for such a small engine. Good performance.
And yea, We will be kicked to he** and back by these 5th gens. Sorry guys! It'll take a heavily built 3rd gen to take this one.
And yea, We will be kicked to he** and back by these 5th gens. Sorry guys! It'll take a heavily built 3rd gen to take this one.
06-10-2008, 04:56 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
I read the same thing, that they are considering a 2l direct injected I4. This was published in automobile magazine.
06-10-2008, 05:08 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
a v8 is a v8...nothing like it(TQ)....even those v6's and 4 banger ones will proli beat our gas's left and right
atleast they dont sound as mean lol
atleast they dont sound as mean lol
06-10-2008, 05:19 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
I love the sound of my push rod, gas guzzling v8. Nothing sounds like it, and nothing feels like it. It is not the fastest thing on the road, but I love it for what it is.
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06-10-2008, 08:24 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
I have a feeling we'll still be QUITE a bit lighter (full loaded GTA non withstanding). a good condition L98 should take the 6s and 4s.
06-10-2008, 08:31 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
It's unfortunate that good ol' Bob would consider using a 4banger that's gettn beat up preatty bad in Consumer Reports for its poor reliability so far.
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
I really actually like the idea of a turbo cyl. camaro, alot, seriously. I love the sound and performance of a v8, but in all honesty in order for the new camaro to stick around and sell, it needs to have a model that get's excellent gas mileage, and even better it will be able to live up to the camaro name of performance with a turbocharged 4 cyl.
I think a turbo 4 camaro is the best idea gm's had in awhile, although a turbo 6 would be pretty effin awesome.
I think a turbo 4 camaro is the best idea gm's had in awhile, although a turbo 6 would be pretty effin awesome.
06-11-2008, 09:22 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
The Quotes from Ol'Bob state that the V-6 would be 260 hp, that's the same as the turbo-I4. If they did use the V-6 that's in the CTS as the article suggests that would mean they plan on detuning a 304hp V-6. This would be consistant with the way GM has always craped on Camaros, take a perfectly good engine platform, change the good components for meekness, then taute it as being peaches 'n' cream. The ls1 is a great example of how they put a great motor in the Vette, then detuned it for the Camaro, not only did it have less power but was significantly less fuel efficient as well, even though the Camaro weighed less than a C5.
I agree a Turbo-4cyl. would be cool in the Camaro but not if its going to be detuned, and whats the point of selling a V-6 if it will have the same HP rating?
Also, it would seem that GM is going to build a Camaro that didn't matter what engine it has, Young buyers won't be able to afford. How is that going to be profitable when sales numbers will bottom out after the second year of introduction. I don't know about others but with gas most likely staying in the range of $4.00/gallon from now on (you know its not going to drop significantly now that the refiners have bent us over and taught us a lesson) it would be difficult to afford a $30,000+ car at the higher interest rates that most people interested in a Camaro would have to pay.
I agree a Turbo-4cyl. would be cool in the Camaro but not if its going to be detuned, and whats the point of selling a V-6 if it will have the same HP rating?
Also, it would seem that GM is going to build a Camaro that didn't matter what engine it has, Young buyers won't be able to afford. How is that going to be profitable when sales numbers will bottom out after the second year of introduction. I don't know about others but with gas most likely staying in the range of $4.00/gallon from now on (you know its not going to drop significantly now that the refiners have bent us over and taught us a lesson) it would be difficult to afford a $30,000+ car at the higher interest rates that most people interested in a Camaro would have to pay.
06-12-2008, 07:03 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
The Quotes from Ol'Bob state that the V-6 would be 260 hp, that's the same as the turbo-I4. If they did use the V-6 that's in the CTS as the article suggests that would mean they plan on detuning a 304hp V-6. This would be consistant with the way GM has always craped on Camaros, take a perfectly good engine platform, change the good components for meekness, then taute it as being peaches 'n' cream. The ls1 is a great example of how they put a great motor in the Vette, then detuned it for the Camaro, not only did it have less power but was significantly less fuel efficient as well, even though the Camaro weighed less than a C5.
I agree a Turbo-4cyl. would be cool in the Camaro but not if its going to be detuned, and whats the point of selling a V-6 if it will have the same HP rating?
Also, it would seem that GM is going to build a Camaro that didn't matter what engine it has, Young buyers won't be able to afford. How is that going to be profitable when sales numbers will bottom out after the second year of introduction. I don't know about others but with gas most likely staying in the range of $4.00/gallon from now on (you know its not going to drop significantly now that the refiners have bent us over and taught us a lesson) it would be difficult to afford a $30,000+ car at the higher interest rates that most people interested in a Camaro would have to pay.
I agree a Turbo-4cyl. would be cool in the Camaro but not if its going to be detuned, and whats the point of selling a V-6 if it will have the same HP rating?
Also, it would seem that GM is going to build a Camaro that didn't matter what engine it has, Young buyers won't be able to afford. How is that going to be profitable when sales numbers will bottom out after the second year of introduction. I don't know about others but with gas most likely staying in the range of $4.00/gallon from now on (you know its not going to drop significantly now that the refiners have bent us over and taught us a lesson) it would be difficult to afford a $30,000+ car at the higher interest rates that most people interested in a Camaro would have to pay.
Personally i suggest an engine lineup like this, particularly after seeing the CTS and CTS-V:
Turbo I4: 260 HP (straight from 08 Turbo Cobalt)
I6: 304 HP (straight from higher up CTS)
V8: LS3: 400 HP (this is for an option up. like how you could get a V8 in an RS)
V8: ~500 HP reserved for SS and or Z28 models only. Whether naturally aspirated or on the supercharger is anyones guess. I'm fine with either, but with the ZR1 Vette easily pushing 620+ HP, that opens the door for a 500+ HP camaro.
06-13-2008, 12:28 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
Personally i suggest an engine lineup like this, particularly after seeing the CTS and CTS-V:
Turbo I4: 260 HP (straight from 08 Turbo Cobalt)
I6: 304 HP (straight from higher up CTS)
V8: LS3: 400 HP (this is for an option up. like how you could get a V8 in an RS)
V8: ~500 HP reserved for SS and or Z28 models only. Whether naturally aspirated or on the supercharger is anyones guess. I'm fine with either, but with the ZR1 Vette easily pushing 620+ HP, that opens the door for a 500+ HP camaro.
Turbo I4: 260 HP (straight from 08 Turbo Cobalt)
I6: 304 HP (straight from higher up CTS)
V8: LS3: 400 HP (this is for an option up. like how you could get a V8 in an RS)
V8: ~500 HP reserved for SS and or Z28 models only. Whether naturally aspirated or on the supercharger is anyones guess. I'm fine with either, but with the ZR1 Vette easily pushing 620+ HP, that opens the door for a 500+ HP camaro.
06-14-2008, 07:28 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
YA its true read some thing like ur article in the "road and track" magazine
4 banger with a turbo. I smell some r*** coming this way
4 banger with a turbo. I smell some r*** coming this way
06-15-2008, 12:30 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
Ya, but do the words MUSCLE CAR mean anything anymore?
06-15-2008, 10:24 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
It's still muscle......just the SS anyway. GM needs to make the Camaro fuel efficient and affordable to complete with the Rustang or else it will not last.
Dirtywhite, are you nuts? The C5 is NOT heavier then a fourth gen. I've had both and the a C5 is 3200lbs while a fourth gen is 3400lbs. You only need to look at both cars to see which one is heavier. The Camaro without the hardcore specs is still gonna be heavy. It's Austrailian for God sake's, just look at the GTO! I've seen it in person and it looks heavy. Not as heavy as the Rustang but still looks heavy. The SS will be faster then the GT500 because it isn't as fat and overweight but GM, especially Chevy, will NEVER allow any vehicle to be faster then a base model Corvette with the exceptions being another 'vette (Z06, ZR1).
Does anyone else remember what happened with the 1987 Buick GNX?!
Dirtywhite, are you nuts? The C5 is NOT heavier then a fourth gen. I've had both and the a C5 is 3200lbs while a fourth gen is 3400lbs. You only need to look at both cars to see which one is heavier. The Camaro without the hardcore specs is still gonna be heavy. It's Austrailian for God sake's, just look at the GTO! I've seen it in person and it looks heavy. Not as heavy as the Rustang but still looks heavy. The SS will be faster then the GT500 because it isn't as fat and overweight but GM, especially Chevy, will NEVER allow any vehicle to be faster then a base model Corvette with the exceptions being another 'vette (Z06, ZR1).
Does anyone else remember what happened with the 1987 Buick GNX?!
06-16-2008, 03:07 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
The Camaro without the hardcore specs is still gonna be heavy. It's Austrailian for God sake's, just look at the GTO! I've seen it in person and it looks heavy.
I agree Australian cars are WAY to heavy. The Ford and GM Holden sedans over here are just under 2 tonne these days.
If it makes you feel better we will be paying 2 or 3 times as much for a camaro over here. They will be built RHD from the factory but the government will put a 100% tax on them.
This was posted on the F-Bodies Australia forum. I don't know where they got it from or if its for real.
Camaro
MSRP* $ 21,750.00 (base price) to $ 36,620.00 (fully optioned)
Standard Options:
? Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
? Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
? Engine: 240 hp 3.9L 3900 V6
? Tires: front and rear, P235/40-17,
? Wheels: 17- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
? Six-speed manual transmission
? Air conditioning
? Power windows
? Remote Keyless Entry
? Cruise control
? Cloth bucket seats
? CD player
Optional Base V6:
? PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
? LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL $195
? Automatic Transmission $850
? XM Satellite Radio $325
? OnStar $695
? Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
? Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
? Wheels: 17- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
? Convertible $4000
? Power Sunroof $2000
? Floor mats: carpeted $75
? RALLY SPORT PACKAGE- 310hp HF V6 with DOD, dual exhaust, 17" aluminum polished wheels with P245/40-17 tires, RS badges, fog lamps, body-color grille inserts, front and rear fascia extensions $3000
Super Sport Camaro (SS)
MSRP* $ 28,145.00 (base price) to $ 41,745.00 (fully optioned)
? Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
? Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
? Engine: 420 hp 6.2L 6200 V8 LS3 with DOD
? Duel exhaust
? Tires: front and rear, P245/40ZR-18,
? Wheels: 18- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
? Six-speed manual transmission
? Air conditioning
? Power windows
? Remote Keyless Entry
? Cruise control
? Cloth bucket seats
? CD player
? Fog lamps
? SS grille
? SS hood with scoop
? SS front and rear fascia
? SS Spoiler
? LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL
? Floor mats: carpeted
Optional SS:
? PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
? PERFORMANCE PACKAGE- performance handling suspension with stiffer springs, stabilizer bars, performance axle ratio, chrome tail pipes $2000
? Automatic Transmission $850
? XM Satellite Radio $325
? OnStar $695
? Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
? Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
? Wheels: 18- x 8.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
? Convertible $4000
? Power Sunroof $2000
Z28 Camaro (Limited Production)
MSRP* $ 39,250.00 (base price) to $ 44,985.00 (fully optioned)
? Active Handling System: improves traction and enhances vehicle stability
? Brakes: four-wheel antilock disc standard
? Performance large cross drilled rotors
? performance handling suspension with stiffer springs, stabilizer bars, performance axle ratio
? Engine: 525 hp Supercharged 6.2L 6200 V8 LS9
? Special Z28 exhaust outlets, polished, four-inch stainless-steel tips
? Tires: front, P275/40ZR-19,
? Tires: rear, P295/40ZR-19,
? Wheels: 18- x 9.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, silver-painted, aluminum
? Six-speed manual transmission
? Air conditioning
? Power windows
? Remote Keyless Entry
? Cruise control
? Cloth bucket seats
? CD player
? Fog lamps
? Z28 grille
? Z28 hood with scoop
? Z28 front and rear fascia
? Z28 Spoiler
? LIMITED SLIP REAR DIFFERENTIAL
? Floor mats: carpeted
Optional Z28:
? PREMIUM PACKAGE- includes dual-zone air conditioning, automatic power Leather seating with heated 6-way power driver seat and front passenger and Head-Up Display with on-board computer (MPG, outside temp, compass etc.) $1515
? XM Satellite Radio $325
? OnStar $695
? Leather seating with 6-way power driver seat $1015
? Bose Monsoon Premium sound system with in-dash 6 CD changer and MP3 connection $600
? Wheels: 19- x 9.5-inch front and rear, five-spoke, polished, aluminum $600
? Power Sunroof $2000
06-17-2008, 10:26 PM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
No, but I am and I wrote a post one time about weight reduction and added on there to go on a diet to help Parasitic Power Loss!
Dammit, I'm working on it!!!!
But you see what I'm saying. The GTO offers awesome performance but the damn thing is 3800lbs. The new Camaro is Aussie just like the GTO was. They are still debating whether the Zeta platform for the Pontiac will return as the Trans Am or the GTO but it's looking like it's going to be the GTO. I've read a couple of articles (taken with a grain of salt) that said if the Zeta platform Camaro sells well, they are going to kill it for a completely U.S. born model Camaro.
Just out of curiousity, does anyone here own a GTO and can look at the door to see if it says Made in Australia? I was always curious.
Dammit, I'm working on it!!!! But you see what I'm saying. The GTO offers awesome performance but the damn thing is 3800lbs. The new Camaro is Aussie just like the GTO was. They are still debating whether the Zeta platform for the Pontiac will return as the Trans Am or the GTO but it's looking like it's going to be the GTO. I've read a couple of articles (taken with a grain of salt) that said if the Zeta platform Camaro sells well, they are going to kill it for a completely U.S. born model Camaro.
Just out of curiousity, does anyone here own a GTO and can look at the door to see if it says Made in Australia? I was always curious.
06-18-2008, 12:28 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
No, but I am and I wrote a post one time about weight reduction and added on there to go on a diet to help Parasitic Power Loss! Dammit, I'm working on it!!!!
But you see what I'm saying. The GTO offers awesome performance but the damn thing is 3800lbs. The new Camaro is Aussie just like the GTO was. They are still debating whether the Zeta platform for the Pontiac will return as the Trans Am or the GTO but it's looking like it's going to be the GTO. I've read a couple of articles (taken with a grain of salt) that said if the Zeta platform Camaro sells well, they are going to kill it for a completely U.S. born model Camaro.
Just out of curiousity, does anyone here own a GTO and can look at the door to see if it says Made in Australia? I was always curious.
Dammit, I'm working on it!!!! But you see what I'm saying. The GTO offers awesome performance but the damn thing is 3800lbs. The new Camaro is Aussie just like the GTO was. They are still debating whether the Zeta platform for the Pontiac will return as the Trans Am or the GTO but it's looking like it's going to be the GTO. I've read a couple of articles (taken with a grain of salt) that said if the Zeta platform Camaro sells well, they are going to kill it for a completely U.S. born model Camaro.
Just out of curiousity, does anyone here own a GTO and can look at the door to see if it says Made in Australia? I was always curious.
I wonder if the Aussies build their bits and pieces in Australia or have it shipped in.
At least there arn't Holden Logos all over the GTO. (cough. Ford (Mazda) Cough.)
06-18-2008, 12:33 AM
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Re: Is GM considering another 4 cylinder Camaro?
06-21-2008, 01:29 AM
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