kylez28

I have an 1991 Camaro Z28 with an L98 bored .060 over with 3.73 gears, hedman longtube headers, ported plenum, flowmaster exhaust w/o cats, and SLP cai. I also have forged internals and a 150 shot, but I haven't used the nitrous in a long time.

Well anyways I was just driving along looking for races on a Saturday night when I hear someone squeel their tires at the next light. It turns out to be an automatic LT1 z28 with atleast exhaust. So I get up beside him and revv it up, and he just looks at me. So I play around w/ him a lil bit by doing some half throttle fly-bys just to make him think im really slow. So finally when I don't expect it he just guns it from about a 35 mph roll and he got about half a car on me before I hit it. I caught up to him about 55 mph and put about 2 cars on him at 90mph. I am guessing 2 cars I didn't actually measure it

We get to the next light and I start to roll my window down to ask him what he has done, and he flips on his turn signal, turns right and gets his **** all sideways and just takes off. Either way, it was a fun race. I need to get some tires and try some races from a dig against LS1's. Oh by the way I ran 8.896 in the 1/8 mile @ 78.43 mph with a 2.018 60' time.

92Forumla

iTrader: (2)

didnt you supposidly have your license suspended for too many tickets?

kylez28

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about, but I have had my license suspended for 30 days before.

92Forumla

iTrader: (2)

on 3go

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Nice run but that LT1 should have beat you. Sounds like his car was hurting for you to pull on him. None the less you won.

kylez28

Why should his car of pulled on me..i trap run 8.8 and trap 78 through the 1/8 mile and most of the lt1's down there run 9.2ish and trap 76-77

Blu91Z28

Nice to see I'm not the only L98 whoopin' 4th Gens!

25thmustang

Myabe its because of location but that number is about a high 13 @ 98 or so, which is not an LT1 killer (thats what I assume hes getting at). Pulling 2.5 cars on an LT1 with exhaust from 35-90 should put you faster than high 13s. Either way nice kill!

kylez28

Like I said it might have been less than 2 cars, it's not like it was an organized race, and you don't TRAP mph in roll races. I judged the 2 cars from my right side mirror, so he may have been closer than that.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

It is not uncommon to see an L98 have a better 1/8 mile time than an LT1. However, by the time you hit the 660' mark the L98 has already blown its wad whereas the LT1 is just getting started. So, seeing how you more than likely ran past 1/8 mile during your race a good running (and driven) LT1 should have walked you. Anything can happen on the street though which gives merit to your kill.

kylez28

There's plenty of other things that factored into the race. I started the run from probably 3000 rpm because I wasn't in OD. I should just get my 150 shot back up and running and just not even give them a chance

Actually now that I think of it I should explain the race better. I jumped ahead of him after he got a bit of a lead on me and it stayed like that for awhile. He was pretty much inching up on me, then at 90 I let off due to traffic.

Blu91Z28

So let me get this straight. You're saying a full exhaust Speed Density L98 won't have a comparable trap speed to a stock or cat-back A4 LT1 because I've got time slips that beg to differ.

kylez28

Another thing I forgot to mention, my car came orginally as a 305 tpi and I swapped in an aluminum headed 91 corvette l98 into it. With my mods I dyno'd at 244 rwhp and 319 rwtq. With the 150 shot I dyno'd at 372 rwhp and I can't remember the torque.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Comparable, absolutely. I won't dissagree with you one bit. After the 1/4 mile however the LT1 should still walk the L98. I hate street racing (track time prove everything as you mention) but these type of races rarely stop at 1320 feet. Therefore track times only hold so much weight. His race doesn't clarify estimated distance. When I had my stock '95 M6 Z I never lost to any full exhaust TPI car (LB9 or L98) on the street. Not saying it can't happen (as this thread validates) just that the farther the race goes the less likely the L98 will win.

kylez28

Yeah but it was only a race from 35-90ish, and I started in my peak torque range basically so my car took off damn good. As for 1/4 mile times I ran 14.02 @ 99 mph before my BBK throttle body, Cat delete, and 3.73 gears

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

lol my old car trapped 80 in the 1/8 with a muffler.. on the stock pipes still A4 3.23 LT1. I think it was a 9.0/80mph/2.20 60 foot

Anything can happen on the street, but he did have the faster car.

good kill

kylez28

urbanhunter44 you must of had a fast LT1. Here at my 1/8 mile track Ls1's trap in the 80-83 mph range. Not to mention 3000Gt's trap about 80mph through the 1/8 mile here too. You must have an above average LT1 on your hands Considering every exhaust/intake LT1 down here runs about 9.00's and trap 78ish.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

are you at altitude? I'm at sea level. My car was average - her best with just the muffler (well resonator) was 13.9@100.5 2.2 60ft. M6 cars trap much higher, 102 bone stock traps are common for sticks.

kylez28

No I live in the midwest...Central Illinois to be exact. 80mph through the 1/8 is what I saw most exhaust M6's LT1's running. Maybe it's just the hella humidity in the summer around here.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

looking through my slips for those nights when she just had a resonator she was trapping 79 VERY consistantly, 80 was her best.

kylez28

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but i'm saying the humidity prob has something to do with it out here. With less humidity I wonder if I could gain a MPH or so. My traps were very inconsisent. My first run was a 10.8 @ 66 LOL, very bad launch so I just gave up on it. Second run was a 9.5 @ 74, another bad launch and had to feather it. 3rd run was a 9.3@77. About the 5th run I switched off my rims/tires with my buddies 275 bfgoodrich drag radials. That allowed me to drop it to 8.93@77.8 mph. I let her cool down for awhile then my last run I ran a 8.89@ 78.43

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

humidity definetly plays a factor. My runs were at sea level, very low humidity, about 70 degrees out.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'd figure with your mods on your l98, you'd be near 80mph in the 1/8 instead of 78. LT1's well driven should pull on you especially if they have the jump on you. your in illinois so i dont think altitude is affected you.. even then, LT1's should be faster.

but anything can happen onthe street. sounds like your car is runnin pretty good. nice kill.

i'm still hopin for a run in with a LT1 car

kylez28

You guys really give LT1's too much credit.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats cuz they deserve it.. they are pretty quick cars... dyno 250-260 stock and easily capable of making 350 to near 400rwhp with just a cam swap and some bolt ons

cant say the same about our L98's

9D1BURD

"dyno 250-260 stock "

I am not sure how correct that is, sounds about right though. My stock 97 lt1/t56 car trapped 99 with my missing second gear, not missing the shift, no second gear at alll, lol.

I am guessing i could of trapped 101-102 with second gear.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

250-260 rwhp is about right for an A4 car, M6s hit low 270s.

A cai, long tubes, catback and a tune is good for 295 rwhp on an auto, slightly over 300 on an M6. Add an emissions legal cam and some tuning, and 350 rwhp is pretty easy. Port the stock heads and you'll have 380 rwhp that will pass a sniffer test.

Not to mention the full bolt on, M6 car world record is 11.79@113 That's '04 Z06 territory son.

Blu91Z28

You make it sound like L98's don't respond to mods. LT1's have better flowing heads, stock. They're also aluminum, which saves some weight. The short runner design of the intake raises the power band, always a plus for racing. The reverse flow cooling system allows for higher compression on pump gas, that's always a plus. The fact is the L98 starts with less, much the way the LT1 starts with less when compared to the LS1. In the end, it's all a matter of how much money you want to spend. A perfect example of Tuned Port potential is Preston Smith's 305 IROC. Just do a search and you'll see what I'm talking about. Back to work!!!

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

04 Z06s ran 11.7s???? I thought the 06 427 Z06s ran that.

25thmustang

I need to head out to IL, my 85-86 mph 1/8th traps would have me running around these bolt on cars out there...

89IrocZ350TPI

Im not trying to be a ***** or anything but he is right. A stock LT1 with an A4 should run 13.9-14.2, and a 6- speed LT1 should be in the 13.7-14.0 range. All an L98 needs is bolt ons to hit that. Overall the LT1 is a much better design that the old L98 but come on we are not talking about an LS1 here.

kylez28

It's the world record for a reason, it doesn't happen much. So you're telling me that cai, longtubes, catback and a tune on an m6 LT1 should be takin down stock ls1s? My friends 1997 m6 SS camaro put down 258 rwhp stock. He then added Longtubes, cai, hooker catbatback and a TB and only put down 280 rwhp, and his car only has 53k on it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well driven its a close race...

a tune would probly bring that up to about 300whp. they benefit from tunes well... underdrive pulleys and its seein near 10 more hp. that will run with a Ls1

oh they do.. to an extent with TPI. full exhaust mods and a torque converter really wake up our L98 cars. we all can agree an L98 stock is usally around a 95-96mph trappin car.. or so. some have hit higher. some abit lower. just full exhaust and torque converter, i hit 100mph in the 1/4. thats pretty good for just full exhaust.. and not even long tubes, and i still have stock cat. my flowmaster catback aint even the best flowing thing out there.

its just that the TPI system hurts it alot, and the stock heads. LT1 heads flow only abit better than ours, but the intake design is good for 6000+rpms with the right mods. Lt1's heads and cam are better than L98's so naturally, full exhaust mods and 1.6 rockers on a LT1 will make alot more power than our L98s. and the fact taht the LT1 has a 6 speed option, they will be faster than our autos because of the gearin advantage.

kylez28

I've never seen an 89+ L98 trap less than 97 mph. I've actually seen t-5 305 tpi's trap 95 before with just exhaust. You have to take into consideration we also have torque...lots of it. Sure our racing isn't exactly great from 60mph rolls and ****, but roll racing that high is stupid anyways. We can hang ET wise with LT1's very well, and hang w/ their mph decently, and i'm not talking about heavily modded cars. I'm not exactly sure how good the heads on my car flow, being as that they are the aluminum heads from a 91 corvette, but I imagine a bit better than the camaro and trans am heads.

89IrocZ350TPI

When my L98 was stock it only traped 93-94

kylez28

How did you pull that off? I saw a video of an 86 350 with considerably less HP/TQ run a 14.5@95. I guess every car just doesn't run the same.

89IrocZ350TPI

Well its alot faster now so it doesnt bother me

Blu91Z28

GMHTP managed a 11.9 @ 118 with a '04. The new Z06 runs mid 11's @ 125+ MPH, very traction limited.

kylez28

Yeah I really see bolt on LT1's running down z06's all the time LOL

lilbowilson

iTrader: (2)

I see alot of stock LT1's w/auto and regular street tires run consitant 8.7's in the 1/8. As far as Lt1 heads vs L98 vette heads stock testing has shown the Lt1 makes 30hp over L98 heads. So there is no doubt the LT1 is a better engine. But with those 3.73 gears, .060 over rebuild, vette heads, longtube headers and no cats vs a stock LT1 auto on the street I say he would win every time. EASY

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

That's because he didn't tune it And a TB does nothing btw. These cars run horribly rich from the factory, a tune is worth 10 rwhp on an otherwise completely stock car, and the tune gets worse as the mods increase. And yes, a car with that setup will run with a stock LS1. Seen it more than once.

You have to understand that LT1s are better in EVERY way than their L98 predecessors, much the same way that LS1s eclipse LT1s in EVERY way (except displacement muahahaha).

That's NOT to say L98s aren't good engines. They're great mills, have tons of torque, get good mpg, are reliable and are a good ol' Gen 1 SBC (cheap!!!), but with stock parts they're limited. YES you can get good E.T.s out a tuned port injection motor, but their trap speed will always be crap compared to a short runner setup (LT1, HSR, etc.), and the short runner will ALWAYS make more horsepower than a similar build with an LTR setup, i.e. TPI.

Kyle, that is the world record. It's a gutted '97 Z28 with a great driver. However the full interior bolt-on daily driven cars are running low 12s. 12.3-12.4 are the norm for a full bolt-on with a tire car trapping near 108.

kylez28

I see full bolt-on LS1's running 12's like that...I just wish L98's werent limited with the TPI intake and automatic transmission. Better intake and a manual I bet they would compete a lot better.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i agree 100%.. i think if it had a 6speed or even a WC T5 5 speed.. it would be alot quicker. 700r4 is a great tranny just not the best racing trans. sure a converter helps alot, but it eats power.. a manual will put down 15-20more hp on the right combos.

its one reason i want 25thmustang to build up a full bolt on L98 with a T5 and some 3.73 gears and see what times he can rip outta that. his stang is really quick for the mods and mainly cuz his driving is good

kylez28

I can't remember what my car dyno'd stock but It was somewhere in the 215 rwhp range. Get rid of that damn 700r4, add a t-56 in there stock dyno's might even be in the 230 area. I'm curious how well my aluminum heads from a 91 corvette flow...anyone know?

Yeah I'm REALLY curious how a bolt-on L98 with a manual would run. I'm also curious how a HSR/better heads/better cam would run w/ a manual. I am actually selling my car to buy an LS1 car, but I almost want to just build it up and swap the t-56 in her. I think if I did that I would buy 1990 IROC-Z.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

kylez28

I have no clue what any of that means, I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to that kind of stuff. Do they flow relatively well, or would I have to upgrade them if I got an Intake/cam set-up?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Well, mw66nova has gotten some good times out of them, as well as other people. They'll work for a street car, but to get serious you'll need to upgrade. To put those heads in comparison, stock LT1 heads flow about 215-220 at .500, yours are flowing 196. Iron L98 heads flow like high 180s at .500 iirc. Real performance starts at 280+ cfm.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

actuallly AFR's flow in the upper 260's mid 270's range and they make damn good power out of the box. i do believe they can support over 500hp on the right motor combo

once u get above those flow numbers, you got lots of room to play with serious combos that if you stay n/a, you wont be all that streetable.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

well, mid 270s is pretty close to 280, but i get what you're sayin. ported LT1 castings can hit 280 and they're capable of 440ish rwhp N/A without much difficulty and plenty of room for bigger cams.

Actually stock casting (non-ported, stock size valved) LT1 heads are good for about 420 rwhp with the right cam. That's about what the stock eliminator guys are getting, and running 10.90s with it

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Well, I just may be able to answer that question within a few months - I already have the HSR & AFR 195 heads, right now I'm trying like hell to get a good camshaft recommendation for what I'm trying to do with the car, & I just might be able to get a T-56 or Richmond 6-speed this summer.

I've been told that I should be able to make somewhere in the range of 370 to 400+ HP (one guy's pretty confident that I could see 425 or better! ), which should make for some fun times behind the wheel...

If I can get it all together (& get a good tune), then I'll probably start looking for a little bit of dyno time, or find an excuse to hit the track once or twice...