V6camaroman

there is a kid at my school who has a 96-99 mustang 4.6 car. its a convertable automatic. his mods are torq thrust wheels, lowered, drag radials out back, flowmaster catback and i think he might have a k&n fipk. mind you its also a convertable automatic car. i heard the 4.6 autos were slugs. How do i fare against him? my cars in my sig.

fastfbody

iTrader: (4)

i say you got him beat and by a good bit.also ask him why he put a set drag radiels on a car that could not break loose a good set of z rated tires.

stu

That was my question also. Does he consider shiney wheels a mod too? LOL

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Assuming your mods are well dialed in it will be close if it is a '99. You will murder a '97 or '96.

leeperryracing

those mid to late '90s mustangs were and still are absolute dogs. Some of the worst cobras came from that time period too (97-99)...with a good launch technique and resonably good manual shifting skills, you should put him to rest.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

there is a pretty big difference in the motors in those years. 99-04 had the 260 hp motor, prior to that it was like 220 i think. 96-97 was a different bodystyle than 98-04 as well.

if it's the older (pre 99) 4.6, I think you'll have it.

25thmustang

The GTs of those years were dogs...

But to say the Cobra was must be coming from someone who has no experience with them. The 4.6 in the Cobra was a stout motor, basically designed for boost from the factory. NA they made good power and can make better power with bolt ons and gears (they LOVE gears), but the B heads from the 96-98 era when coupled with boost made huge numbers. Stock the Cobras were as fast as the LT1s, and were a few bolt ons and gears away from the 12s, but were talking GTs, and those were scary slow without the PI heads and intake, or some sort of power adder!

stu

So I could pick up a cheap '99 Cobra and turbo it for a nice 10 second car pretty easily?

79vette

You should check out turbomustangs.com stu. They got tons of information about what you just described. I am not too familiar with the ford modular motors but I have personally seen 10 second turbo mustangs at the track, and they were built on a pretty tight budget. I am in the process of turboing my vette so that it can do 10's easily and have lurked around that sight alot. they got a devoted GM spot on the forum.turbomustangs.com

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

The 96 97 NPI heads are oval port and are quite simply pathetic. In 98 they redeisgned the NPI port and made it a teardop shape, finally in 99 they did the PI changeover with the bigger intake, bigger ports, and bigger cams. My friends 98 Mustang was a low 15 second car with flowmaster 40's an aftermarket X pipe, and no cats, and that was a 5 speed car. You shouldn't have a problem beating an auto convertible unless he's done a PI swap and gears or is spraying; even then you will probably stand a chance against it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

4.6 stang of 99 was quick... capable high 13's at 100mph. thats even with my 350 L98.

96-98 tho were slow and i think you have that covered

87TPI350KID

Get a 150 shot and race for pinks, even though you could be him N/A pretty easily. I wouldn't run him from about 40 mph or so, 700r4's have a crummy 2nd gear whereas those have a stout 2nd.

stu

No one races for pinks in real life...

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

How would a LB9 305 with ported TPI, 3angle/cut valve heads, full exhaust cam, tq converter and 2.73 posi match up to one of those gt's? I've raced fox bodies with just exhaust and I won a few, but also lost a few. Theres a '99 GT around the corner from me that just begs to be spanked...

stu

Can't you just pick up a cheap 96-99 GT Mustang and swap the PI heads on for a cheap, quick extra like 60 hp?

roughskinjrz

ever watch the show on SPEED, called PINKS.

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

That show is so freakin' gay...I want to slap the host...

roughskinjrz

yeah it is pretty gay, but at the end of the day someone loses their vehicle.

stu

I've never seen the show, but I do know that it started with someone from this website (which is how I even found this place) and I also know that not every time someone loses a car.


Ever seen MTV's Real World? How often do you think 7 strangers just show up at a house to live together and all have the same job?


I'm sure some jackass races for "pinks." But no one from here, and no one with an auto convertible Mustang. Especially not one that is stock with drag radials.

89IrocZ350TPI

If its a 98 or under you should smoke him. A 99+ with those mods will put up a fight. I think the 99-04's run 14.1-14.2's.

25thmustang

Stu that would be good, but the PI stuff isnt cheap... Its a good bit of money to go low 13s or high 12s!

We had a group from CT race in the show pinks, and the episodes will air soon! People do lose their cars in the end, but in the REAL WORLD people dont usually race for pinks!

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

PI swap cars are actually a bit faster than stock PI cars because of different pistons causing the PI swap cars to have higher compression. I wouldn't count on a PI car or a PI swap car going 13's without gears and a 5 speed, and even then it's going to be hit or miss. The factory Mustangs have horrible rear gears and the PI cars are really weak under 3k couple that with the automatic and they feel like a slug out of the hole then come on like a train (similar to a stock LS1 but not as powerful). Don't be so quick to write off the 98 cars either, most of them have new intakes because of the crap coolant crossover and a PI intake will really wake those cars up. This mod will seriously shave several tenths off of these cars I've seen this from experience. I hate to say it but the 4.6 modular motors are really starting to show there potential especially with aftermarket support and the new 3 valve headed 4.6's. Only way to know for sure if you can take one or not is to run him because there's literally a blue million of these cars and the parts to make them quick is getting more and more affordable and easy to acquire.

V6camaroman

ok guys this has slid a little off topic but from what yall have said i dont have much to worry about. thanks for your help.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You don't unless it is a modded and well driven '99.

89IrocZ350TPI

Ya those 99+ GT's with a 5-speed can be mid 13 second cars with just Exhaust,Intake, and Gears, So watch out.

hot92z

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but where would one go to find information about 4.6 mustangs besides svtperformance.com?

I am thinking about switching to the darkside since iam really starting to hate my Lb9 crap box

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

i'll tell you everything you need to know..

stay away from any 4.6 mustang motor unless it's an 03-04 Cobra motor.

For the money that i spend to even buy a 99-04 GT stang i could have that LB9 passing them like nothing.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

In all honesty if you have an LB9 T5 Camaro I don't see you being pleased with a 4.6 liter 5 speed mustang. I would suggest you look up "Mustang forum" on Google; there's alot of good info to be found. It's been an uphill battle with my friends 98 GT but the bottom line is his rods are weak and on spray we have got the car to run a 13.5 according to the Mustang community that seems to be really quick for a 98 GT. The 4.6 are good motors and are definetly coming around, but the SBC is just a tougher motor overall and is bigger even in it's smaller forms. Sorry for the tangent but the 4.6's are OHV and up on technology to the older SBC's is the more economical choice for going fast.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

PS on topic, when you race a newer Mustang the worst thing that can happen is you lose

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Urbanhunter44 beat me to what I was trying to say and did it in far less words

stu

Heh, you said crap box.

25thmustang

The 4.6 SOHC motors from the 96-98 vintage were sluggish stock, but like stated above, with the PI swaps can make more power than the 99+ cars because of the compression bump you would get. Add to that al the bolt ons, and 12s arent too difficult.

The 99+ cars stock with a good driver are low 14s high 13s, and with bolt ons can and will run into the 12s. Then you add a set of cams and such, and low 12s are just some suspension mods away. It all depends on how crazy your willing to go.

The 4.6 SOHC 3V motors are already proving themselves. Having been 11s with just bolt ons, suspension and weight removed, and plenty of street cars running mid 12s with much less done, its hard to knock that in a car on its first year out.

The 4.6 DOHC motors in ALL the years were stout. The early ones (B headed cars) were right there with the 99+ GTs if not slightly faster (more mph) and like with the GTs bolt ons will send them well into the 12s when done right. The same holds true for the 99 and 01 cars.

And the final short of the 03/04 cars is the Mach 1. The fastest NA Mustangs, a LOT of them have been low 13s bone stock off the showroom floor, and on average are probably in the mid 13s (slightly slower than the LS1s). With bolt ons, deep 12s, and with suspension I have seen some 11s with those cars!

Sorry for the long post, but I had to voice my opinion here. The 4.6 costs a good amount to get the times from, but with the right person modding, and driving them, and the right combo of parts, you can run the number.

One more thing, my friend Graham had probably the fastest 96-98 GT I have ever seen. Im not sure the year (96 I think) but the car had a stock motor, stock headers, mostly stock suspension, and all the bolt ons, and on a set of tires and a weaker gear he went 13.3 (once) and consistent 13.5-13.6s all day! I think he sprayed the car and blew the plastic intake up, and ended up getting rid of the car (havent raced with him in 4-5 years), but that car was impressively fast!

hot92z

Iam just asking cuz iam sick of throwing money at my old car just to keep the damn thing running and my uncle has a 97 Cobra he said he would sell to me.

To the thread starter: You will take him easy. I made a guy in a 2000 Gt vert look like a moron a few months back in my pretty much stock 5 speed Lb9 so you shouldnt have a problem really.

Yeah my crap box is kinda a factory freak but things break often enough

mrpopo573

Absolutely true.

"For Slips" is just a coined phrase now, a way to voice your confidence in your car.

A kid in a 4 door accord said that to me once. I told him I didn't want to own his car. He got mad.

25thmustang

If I were in your shoes and you can get the Cobra pretty cheap, Id go for it! Those cars can run hard with little done, and your starting off with a low 14s high 13s car.

stu

Plus, everyone knows that poisonous snakes are ten times cooler than flaming piegons anyway!

Nate86

Yep. Too bad he drives a Camaro.

Nate86

To be fair, you can't really expect a car that's, at best, 14 years old not to have its fair share of problems. I can definately relate with you on that. However, another observation I have made after fixing many of the problems my car had, is that once you do fix something (and you do it right the first time around), it'll usually last for a long time before breaking/wearing out again. And in my case, since I do all the work on my own car, it only gets easier the next time I do it.

There's no denying the fact that thirdgens are extremely tempermental cars. That said, I can't think of too many older sports/muscle cars that aren't tempermental in their own ways.

I would stick with the Camaro and get rid of the LB9 if it's giving you that much of a hassle. 350 blocks are easy to find, and at that point it's just a matter of how you build it that will determine its reliability. It's up to you, though.

'Stangs are never a good option, though.

hot92z

So far everything I have replaced has not given me a problem since its just that everytime I replace one thing another breaks

So far the Lb9 hasnt let me down but if a 350 swap done the right way costs me anywhere near the stang iam getting the stang

I will ask for how much my uncle is willing to part with the cobra for...it has nitrous

Hey v6camaroman have you raced that kid yet?

89IrocZ350TPI

Are you sure about that?

25thmustang

HAHAH coming from an LG4 owner! You right a newer DOHC Cobra isnt a good option, stick with the 305!

hot92z

Iam wondering what the outcome of this race is gonna be...post some results damnit!!!


Iam seriously giving some thought about getting a 4.6 Cobra I cant afford the 03/04 supercharged ones but a procharger isnt too expensive

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

25thmustang my racing buddy has done a PI intake swap, generic eBay CAI, dual 2in to an X pipe and out 2.5in to 2 40 series flowmasters. He's using my purge solenoid to run a dry shot through his MAF and using a 53 jet he has gotten the car to do a best of 13.5 on a crappy track (My car on a much bigger shot did a 13.223 but was spinning enough to run out of gear before the run's were up). His Mustang is running with Dayton street tires and no suspension work. This car is EVIL on the street because it's so consistant and it hooks like crazy. It took the nitro to get him there but this thing is a nice daily driven street warrior, plus the small jet lets him run all weekend on 1 bottle fill. Enjoy folks, and yes I REALLy want to know if the kid outran him. I'm starting to get worried he didn't and doesn't want to post back until he outruns him

89IrocZ350TPI

As for the Mustang not being a good option lol. The Mustang GT's and LX cars pretty much dominated most of the 80's. The newer Cobras such as the 03's are still some of the fastest cars on the road today. So I dont know what you are talking about

TBI92Camaro

And at the end of the day, you sitll have a weak-kneed 305.

The year classifications here are funny.....lets do a quick review.

79-93 = Fox Body
94-98 = SN95
99-04 = New Edge
05+ = S-197

The 94-95 GT's came with the 5.0 and were a lil slower than their Fox Body brethern. Th 96-98 GT's came with the 4.6L 2valve NPI combo....they are on par with a 305TPI.

the 99-04 GT's were equipped with the PI (Performance Improved) H/C/I combo and STOCK are capable of low low 14's.

My friend with an 04GT has 4.10 gears, exhaust, and ET Streets and runs consistant mid/low 13s. With the 100 shot, hes a mid 12's car no problem. Still on stock clutch too!

Cobras of any year are no joke. The 5.0's were high 13's cars (well, mainly the 93 Fox ones ). The 96-98 Cobra's were high 13's no problem....4.30/4.56 gears, full exhaust, tune, and tires and you'll see a 12 second pass, trust me. Same for the 99 and 01 Cobras.

and we ALL know how nasty a Terminator (03/04) Cobra gets....pulley, tires, exhaust and utne and 11 second car you have!!!

TBI92Camaro

If you can afford a Cobra, you can afford a Kenne Bell.....they make dman good twin-screws and well, a 2.2L KB on a 4valve is plain nasty...end of story.

89IrocZ350TPI

The 305 TPI cars are about even with the 96-98 cars. A 96-98 GT will still dust a 305 LO3 or LG4.

stu

Not true. You can finance a Cobra. It'd be stupid to finance a supercharger.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

n/a 4vs plus KB equals waste of money i think... cuz the internals wont handle the power that u could get out of the KB. 03-04's that run 17-21psi make anywhere from 580-650rwhp. need the internals to get fulll benefit of the supercharger.


2valve 99+ 4.6's in the GT's arent really worth tryin to mod for N/A. full bolt ons and gears only will trap 105-106mph at best. slicks is capable of a high 12 second pass. add stg 1 cams and your looking at high 12's at 108-110mph but stock heads dont flow all that well so cam gains are limited. internals cant really handle stg 2 cams, so... still need 100-150shot to get to 115 where you would be if you just had supercharged the thing in the first place with 400-425rwhp. 2valves only good with booost. some have been fast but arent all that streetable and need to rev high. gotta build them up strong so you can wind them up.

stock internals to stock internals, i bet u could make a Lb9 305 faster cuz of more cam choices and intake choices to match. also better head options.

even N/A 4 valves are better off under boost as n/a they take alot to get some fast times. full bolt ons can make near 350rwhp, which is good. but the internals wont really support a cam that will rev real high that will make more power. small cubes need rpms to make the power. supercharger makes up for that.

25thmustang

The 99+ GTs can actually go low 12s with stock heads, and stock cams. I raced with a few guys who were doing 12.1-12.3s all day long (on a tire) with stock long blocks, and Bullit intakes. One of the guys dropped in some VT cams and went 11s, and both cars were street driven although had some weight removed.

I have seen a few light bolt on cars on a tire go 12s (one was a vert and went 13.0s on radials) and plenty in the mid to high 12, full weight with stock long blocks.

The Mach 1 and DOHC cars I have seen anywhere from high 11s, to high 12s with the broad range of bolt ons. The thing with the cars are, the little things make a big difference. You do the details, like electric water pump, long tubes over shorties, and a good tune, and the cars will run hard all day long.

Me and my friend have a goal for his 03 GT:
Stock motor, exhaust, 4.10s, DRs (18s with 18s up front), bolt ons (timing adjuster, pulleys, CAI, TB, MAF etc..) and some suspension, and our goal is 12.99 or better without any weight removed, on the 18s, with nothing more than bolt ons! I think with the right parts, cool air, and some bang up driving (I get to be the driver for the "record" passes) it could go 12s! Then maybe S/C, Turbo, or who knows!