DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

From what I understand, they don't have much power over 5000-5500RPM with the stock turbo, and boost controllers (without other mods previous) hurt their top-end even more as their turbos are pretty much maxed out for the application.

Someone feel free to say this is incorrect as I do not know for sure and have no direct experience with these cars. This was just what I understood from reading on a few WRX forums. I'm not trying to start a flame war nor am I saying that these cars suck or anything. Please, if I'm wrong, someone inform me

stu

You're right. The power band of both the regular WRX, and even the STi was way different than say the powerband I had in my car (ALL top end). The turbo is sized to have good mid range and driveability. Even when they up the boost with a boost controller, they may be able to get more boost (let's say 18 psi for example) but the turbo is too small to hold that number in the higher rpms. So while it may be able to hold 18 in the mid range, by the top end it will always end up dropping by 2-3psi. Many guys have found that it's better off to just lower the boost a little to keep a constant level; they'be gotten better times this way.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep, the STI has a bigger turbo than the WRX.. the stocker is very small for a wrx, but i they can support up to 300-320hp or so. this is like a full bolt on stage 2 or 3 WRX. stage 2 goes about high 13's or so, while upped boost cars can do mid to lower 13's.

after that, its pretty much maxed out.. if you want more topend, then upgrade to the VF22 turbo... its still small somewhat but makes great top end power

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

I know a lot of it has to do with heat. When the up the boost a bit more, it makes the turbo real inefficient and it starts putting out too much heat to make the extra boost useful.

Mcdamit

this is from the wrx guys, its old so dont bother posting

clicky

stu

"I take losing very seriously." LMAO, what a *****. If that's the case then that guy is in the wrong sport. haha. Sorry, I know that wasn't the point, but that just struck me as pretty hilarious.

TPI

"Hmmm. Please don't take offense, because I have great respect for the newer LS1 powered Camaros, but I've never really seen great numbers (by modern standards) from those IROC cars. I was thinking that those were mid-14 second cars like the WRX, though they may trap a bit higher."

the secret is out now .. lol
come race my thirdgen

TRAXION

Yes, the stock Turbos on the WRX and STI are too small. Boost on a stock STi is set to 14.5 and tapering to about 12.5 at redline. I'm currently running about 18.5 midrange and tapering to about 14.5 at redline ... even when I command higher boost (no stupid manual boost controller here either, I am working with factory type logic). Problem is not only that the turbo is small, but that IHI has built the turbos with very light wastegate springs such that even when I command to keep he wastegate closed it just gets blown open because the stock spring won't hold it closed. Would be nice to run 15.5psi at redline ... anything more and it is just way hot air being pushed. That's not good.

As far as the power starting to drop off, I'll let you be the judge. This is my bone stock dyno with the motor not even completely broken in.

http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/dyno/stock/hp_tq.JPG

Things are much different now. That was totally stock at 14.5psi ... hehe. In any case, power DOES start dropping off at ~5000-5500 on the STI. You'll see the torque start dropping off at 5250 and the horsepower start doing the same. That's about where boost really does start plummeting like a madman due to the undersized turbo.

The VF22 is an old school turbo. People only install these because they are cheap. I wouldn't recommend one to anybody. A TD06-20G is a nice stock mount (as opposed to rotated mount where the big power is) street turbo for the STI capable of 350 wheel horsepower. Going bigger is fine ... like an FP Green, SuperZilla, SR55, etc. However, when going to anything bigger than a 20G a new front mount intercooler becomes a necessity.

These cars (WRX and STI) really aren't low end OR upper end cars. They really are midrange cars. Just look at the torque curve in the dyno plot. That illustrates it perfectly.

... it sure was a big change going from almost 400whp to a measily little 250whp - lol. However, now I am about 300whp and soon enough I'll have a 20G and be pushing 350whp ... hahaha .. and I'll be driving it in the snow too and I'll be taking my kids around in their baby seats in the back ... rofl.

t

TPI

now thats cool !!

something you cant do with a 3rd gen.
no wonder why you dont miss the 400HP F-body.

you will have a 350HP snowmobile!!
sounds like some fun ..

Mcdamit

stu, you realize that was me being a stuck up jackass.

stu

Was it? LOL. Why do you "take losing very seriously?" I have to admit that I feel a bit like a clown now, but you do realize that someone has to lose right?

For the record I never called you stuck up.

Mcdamit

i said it because i was being a jackass but i would rather win

stu

Too bad they don't have bad beats in racing like they do in Texas Hold'em.

Mcdamit

i dont play texas hold um whats bad beats

Mcdamit

stu u like my toy pics are on the link

stu

I don't understand what you mean here?




A bad beat is when a great hand is beat by an even better great hand. For example, where I play, the qualifying hand is a Full House of Aces full of Jacks (three Aces and two Jacks). If that hand is beaten by a better hand, say Four of a Kind Jacks for example, and the requirements are met*, then you have a bad beat. Let's say that the jackpot for the bad beat is $40,000. The person who lost gets 40% of that $40,000, the person who wins gets 30%, and the rest of the people sitting at that table get to split the other 20% of the $40,000.

* The requirements are as follows:
Both players must play with both cards in their hand.
Three Aces on the board nullifies the Bad Beat.
There must be $30 in the pot.

But that's off topic.

Mcdamit

i asked if you like my car, your a honda kid. Most of them think camaros are gay actually.

stu

People who think that other cars are ghey just because of the kind of car it is are high school drop out retards. I think your car is very clean. I also think it needs a large single turbo under the hood.

Mcdamit

i also think i can barely afford insurance now

Mcdamit

hey stu wel while i am at it have a a 305 i am building(got it for free) does a turbo and maybe a 230/225 .47/.47 and a 116*LSA sound good all on a four barrel.

stu

I don't know anything about cams, but I do have a feeling that you just listed a set with a real lopey idle, which won't work with forced induction. Anytime you have forced induction, you want as close to ZERO overlap in your cams as possible. Last, a turbo sounds good on any car.

Mcdamit

k i dont know that a turbo needed that. el cheapo cam

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Actually an off the shelf FI cam is the same price as most other cams, and custom cams are all the same prices usually (expensive).

If you were doing an FI build, get a custom cam or you'll be sorry later.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Beat a newish WRX at the track the other day pretty bad, but he ran a 60' of like 2.7 so he had to be pretty new to WRX's. I completely understand how hard it is to launch those things from seeing a few at the track. Either they hook and take off right away, or they have a terrible bog off the line. Obviously, this would be highly dependent on the driver.

He ended up running a 16.6@80 to my 15.3@87 (2.4 60'). My best of the night off spray was 14.7@93 (2.3 60'), and my best on 60-shot was 14.5@97 (2.44 60'). I was soo inconsistent, running anywhere from a 14.7 to a 15.7 off the bottle. Learned I was using the drag radials completely wrong afterwards Figure I should be a mid-low 14s car off the bottle and a 14 flat or better car with it if I could get some traction.

IROCThe5.7L

LOL

A few days ago, some guy calls my all in with QJ offsuit, I have pocket aces. Didn't that sucker crack my aces! Good bye $45



Anyways, back on topic, race them from a roll

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Or from a dig if they can't drive. Apparently even if we can't drive (*cough* 2.3x 60's), we can still out-launch them with crappy drivers.. lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah, alot of people assume its AWD and will take a RWD car out the hole. but sometimes its not the case........AWD wrx's arent that easy to launch... especially consistantly. it takes some time to get used to it and find the sweet spot.

odddoylerules

yeah wrxes are great, but the non sti models are easy prey for all but the slowest cars from a roll. They dont make much power, and they depend on AWD launches to hit high 14's stock. From a roll you are more likely to lose to a swapped honda. I only run 14.89, and I run down every wrx I race. from a roll, its just me walking away. Havent really ****ed with modded ones yet, there are only a few around, and I need to rebuild my motor.

kylez28

Don't be racing in a TPI unless you feel like being laughed at

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

kylez28

L98s are 15 second 1/4 mile cars....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

What planet are you on Maybe some clapped out, oil burning thirdgen with a 16 year old driver is a 15 second car.


A solid running L98 with a half decent driver is a 14 second car all day long.

Or maybe you just can't drive

kylez28

Since when does driving an auto take skill? You just put it in drive and go. You launch at whatever RPM you can hook at, and just keep it to the floor, little to no skill involved. I see tons of stock L98s running like 9.5s-9.8s in the 1/8 mile here in Illinois, and I doubt everyone is a bad driver. Maybe you're thinking of an LT1, because I drive an L98 and I know it's not a 14 second car. Maybe a HIGH 14, but its definately not a low 14 second car, especially stock.

tpivette89

this is why you see L98s running 15s, launching an auto isnt as easy as it may seem. a skilled driver should be able to get low 2.0 60fts out of a stock tire TPI fbody. launch rpm and throttle control off the line play a crucial part in drag racing these cars. and also, alot of people manually shift their auto, which doesnt work as well as just leaving it in 3rd (drive). most people manually shift at the wrong rpm, and when you do move the lever up a gear, it takes a second for the trans to build up line pressure to shift the car. that is wasted time
no, LT1s usually run very low 14s to high 13s. some have even dipped into the mid 13s stock

many people on this very board have gotten 14s out of their box stock L98 fbodies. mid - high 14s seem to be the norm with the rare low 14 popping up ever so often

kylez28

I've hit 2.1 60' on bad tires and could only manage a 9.5, because the car just slows down like it got hit by a gust of wind.

kylez28

which is probably a high 14 in the 1/4, and I have mods...

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Then tell that to my friend who ran a 14.4 in her stock 91 Z

Tell that to me who was running 14.6-14.7's all day long in my stock GTA(stock down to the paper filter, valve covers had never been on..bought it with 25K on it).

Or the many people on here that have hit 14's stock.

You lose.

kylez28

must had some hella nice tires and a very lucky run...

tpivette89

then either:
A) youre racing at altitude which will affect your performance, or

B) there is something wrong with your car cause a stock one should do AT LEAST high 14s

kylez28

I don't think illinois is at a high altitude, actually its just a giant cornfield really. I already said stock l98's are HIGH 14, LOW 15 cars, they were tested at like 15.2 by professionals..

tpivette89

i hope you dont mean car and driver and the like... arent they the ones who got a 13.9 out of an LS1 fbody? pathetic

my own 89' Vette with the L98 auto combo went 13.90 at 99mph 100% bone stock. a L98 fbody should be no more than a half second behind due to weight and the slightly better aluminum heads. it just takes a good driver with a good running car

kylez28

I don't buy that 13.9 stock...

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Give it up dude.

You're fighting a losing battle.

kylez28

The only reason i'm fighting a losing battle is because you guy's are L98 owners yourself, and you don't want to admit that they are slow. 13.9 in a stock 89 l98? come the **** on... 14.4 in a stock l98 camaro? Why would anyone swap in an LT1 then?

tpivette89

thats ok, i have the timeslips

before you make judgement based on info you dont have, get educated on www.corvetteforum.com

plenty of members there have hit high 13s in box stock L98 Vettes. do a search for:

- Vic89
- 65Z01
- MadMic
- TA

those guys have gone insanely quick in stock motored TPI Vettes, and i believe all of them were in the high 13s stock

kylez28

Sure the l98 was good in 1990, but it's not worth a DAMN anymore. It gets destroyed by just about any granny-mobile on the road..

stu

I see why this guy is conflicted here. Clearly his car is a piece of crap, or he can't drive, so he's unwililng to accept the fact that he is an outlier on the grand box and whisker chart of L98 1/4 mile times. What I don't understand, is why he doesn't just embrace this new information, and go around telling his friends that his car is faster than it is.

tpivette89

youre losing the battle cause you seem to think just cause YOUR CAR is slow, everyone elses must be too

your car isnt the end all be all of TPI performance

kylez28

Something doesn't add up, I have raced two 89 vettes and a 90 vette, and I have beat them all except for one time the 89 got me off the line and wouldnt let me pass(races on a two lane country road). My car has Flowmaster with no cat, ORY, K&Ns, BBK throttle body, ported plenum, and longtubes...

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, EX L98 owner...that was 2 motors ago..I moved on to faster, more powerful motors.

I can tell you what I ran stock. I can tell you what my friend ran stock in hers and I tell you some of other board members here have run stock.

Did I say ALL L98's are 14 second cars? Nope. But you seem to have this notion that a 14 second L98 is some type of factory freak or something.

Maybe your track is above sea level(just because it's corn fields doesn't mean it's at sea level) or maybe your track sucks ***..who knows.