trans_am_ta_84

alright guys here is the scoop. my mothers bf's likes to rev his engine up at me all the time so i keep asking to race him and he said maybe this weekend..

2002 mustang gt 4.6
flowmaster cat back
cool air or cold air intake
manual

1989 trans am
350 .040
350 tpi heads
lt1 cam
edelbrock performer tbi intake
flowtech ehaders
flowmaster american thunger cat back
700r4

and i also have a question i have 3.42 gears but not installed, what will be the outcome before and after the gear swap?

ridecamro

if thats all he has done then i would say you would take him. and those gears you have would help alot if you had them in

trans_am_ta_84

yea i hear they are suppoosed to help alot, i could throw them in with my open rear, but it just wouldn't be the right way, so i'm waiting for the winter when she is put away and i buy a limited slip and do that and the gears.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Depends on how he can drive. Some mustangs are high 13's. You, i am not sure. Performer TBI i dont know much about but usually TBI cars are considered performance car intakes. Open rears suck so your launch wont be real good. the LT1 cam is mild but bit better than L98 cam. I say your about on par with but probly bit slower than L98 TPI cars, which are mid low 14's, i say he will take you if he can drive half decent. LOL It will be a decent race, but those gears are gonna hurt you from a dig. Good luck tho.

stu

Kick his ***. Then make your mom break up with him.

kretos

i'd say its gonna be close

jocww

him hands down because he has a limited slip 343s prob. at least i mean gts are like z28s ss's limited slip also he has a stick better launch than u and tbi isnt known for its trq so if he can drive he should win

anymethod

I'm gonna say the Mustang wins unfortunately. Be careful with installing those gears. 3.42 might be a little too much for your motor. It doesn't sound like you make a lot of power on the topend. Take it from someone with a mismatched drivetrain: Don't just add parts and think it will automatically make you faster. I think 3.23s would be perfect for you and 3.42 won't be too bad, but don't go out and buy like 4.10s or even 3.73s and expect to run faster. You may get out of the hole quick, but get the gears that will put you where you make the most power.

~Matt

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Do you have a perfect tune? Did you do your own chip work for that combo. If not you will lose hard. You have the potential for a 13 second car there but without chip work you are nothing more than a 15 sec ride. Gears will help but not enough to salavge the bad tune.

Aslo, TBI is known for its torque. There was a reason for the swirl port design and implementation of TBI into every work and utility truck out there.

jocww

i thought tpi was know for its trq

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

If he can't drive, then you'll rape him off the line. My buddy had a '97 Z28 with 3" cat-back, CAI, (so basically stock...probably 300HP or so) and he was running 2.4x's 60's when we went to the track and I was running 2.2x's. He pounded me by the 330 though. With that said, you have a 350 though so you'd have quite a bit more power than me. (This was back when I was running 15.7s).

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

They both are really. Stock vs stock TPI just has the higher output. Both are well suited to low and mid range power. Both have upper RPM fueling and air restrictions when heavily modded.

trans_am_ta_84

well unfortunitely when i was ordering my parts for a motor rebuild i was planning on building my 305, until i noticed the cracked block. i went on this site to the rpm calculator thing and it said with 3.42's if i am going 80 i'll be at about 3000 rpm, usually 80 will have me at like 2500 i believe. as far as the chip goes i got it from brian at tbichips.com and the car runs nice definitely faster then a 15. i've raced the dodge srt-4 before and hung right beside him, neither pulled away. when the race first started from a roll i gained alittle on him but then it was dead even. as far as my mothers bf i don't know how he can drive but i really don't like him and he is a real cocky bastard and the car came from my brother that doesn't live around here and he wanted it and got it and it sounds good so i always have to listen to him revving it up and what not.. the only thing is i thought the base mustang gt with the 4.6 only has like 190hp?

nick418

the only thing is i thought the base mustang gt with the 4.6 only has like 190hp?


ah no, a v6 mustangs makes that number, the 4.6 V8 Mustang Gts from 1999-2004 produce 260hp with 302lb tq

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

260HP I believe.

Good for low 14s/high 13s with a great driver.

Get a bigger cam in there first and tune it. Some 1.6 roller rockers would help a bit too as well as hand-porting the heads. That's all stuff you can hide and just say its a rebuilt engine

nick418

theres a member here name NIC who has a 2002 GT Mustang 4.6 it ran mid 13s stock

stu

At 80 mph, I'm at just over 4,000 rpm. I think my final drive is seriously like 4.10 or something.

Anyway, kick his ***, then steal his woman.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Your final drive probably is 4.10. Most FWD 4cyls do have super-high ratios like that. I know the older Corollas had something like a 4.56.

Oh, and about stealing the woman... Hell, I don't even know what to say to that! ...but to each his own... :rockon: :rockon:

trans_am_ta_84

lol his woman is my mother.. lmao.

my father has a 3/4 race cam he had a garage and got it and put it in his 305 but it was too much for the motor and lost vacume to the brakes so maybe i'll see about putting that in there over witner while i'm doing the gears... maybe i'll even buy a set of the world products torqer heads for it

Nitrous Al

Where are you from, Trans_Am_TA_84? The 4.6L GT makes 230 rwhp. What kind of tires does he run? What tires are you running? Does he have a Traction-Lok in his rearend? Do you has a Posi? I think it's going to be close if he knows what he's doing. If you do have a posi and drag radials, install the gears, practice your launch and I think you will win.

MoroteZ28

.....hey isnt his woman his mom??

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Hence my post about not knowing what to say to the comment made above it..

but like I said, everyone has their thing, so to each his own :rockon: :rockon:

sprayedcam86

all i know is that the 4.6 is a worthless motor. plus ford just sucks in general. if i was u id race him. youll win

Jgolden314

If the guy can drive at all, watch out. Those modular mustangs are pretty quick. Is he telling you the truth about his mods? Most stangs around the area are far from stock....

goodluck and report back.

trans_am_ta_84

alright guys. he is the story we raced tonight. yes i'm sure of his mods because it was my brothers car. anyways he is the story

we were lined up my buddy called go and we took off, i took him off the line and my car shifted into 2nd and took off alittle more, then going down the road i pulled slightly until i stopped, i stopped at 90. me adn him don't get along and when i beat him he didn't have anything to say but he sure was mad his nice new mustang just got beat by an "old pos trans am".

my sister has an 02 camaro with the ls1 and she let me drive it, my car seems to be alittle quicker then that too, the only thing her car would do better then mine is if we are moving and she goes then she will probably get me, and as for once i get my gears i have no idea if i would beat her from a roll yet or not. i'd like to race her to see what i got against the ls1 but all she does is say "my car has huge ***** and doesn't seem to want to race me" oh well maybe some day she will. i'd rather lose to a fast car then to beat a whole crap load of slow cars.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well congrats but with your mods, i doubt you will beat a Ls1

ljnowell

With the exception of a bad driver, I dont think you have chance at an LS1.

anymethod

Good kill on the stang, congrats. Yea the LS1 may not seem too fast but it will probably take you in a race. You might be able to win out of the hole, but after that its over. My car with me shifting manually shifts into 3rd gear at 80mph; 5250rpms. At 80 mph in OD (4th) I am at 2400rpms. Stupid drivetrain. All that extra rpm would be nice if I could find a nice frozen lake somewhere to top out at...

~Matt

25thmustang

LS1s feel slower than they actually are for some reason... I dont see you hanging with one unless like stated before, a bad driver...

As far as Fords sucking and the 4.6 being worthless, yeah afterall as shown by the NMRA the 4.6 has no potential (sarcasm here). Tell that to the guys running 11s NA (stock heads, cams etc...) and well into the 9s, 8s and better with spray or forced induction!

stu

It's because the torque curve is so flat that it doesn't feel like you are accelerating.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

do you have any idea how much work it takes to get into the 11's with 4.6GT motor?

AINT no way with stock heads and cam. I know this for a fact. I know two guys there already, one closing in on 10s with blower and one in the high 11's with N/A 4.6. I think your numbers are alittle far fetched.


I havent seen any 4.6 modular motors in the 9's or 8's without lots of SERIOUS mods and work done to the motors. ITs gonna take alot more than some nitrous or boost. Lots of boost and nitrous on a SOLID shortblock is only way. Revs will be approaching 8 grand and most likely higher. NA 11 second cars are shifting 7000rpms and launching a 5000rpms.

trans_am_ta_84

well thanks for the compliments guys and the comments about the ls1, i said that if it's at a roll i know it's got me but as far as from a stop i think it'd be close, maybe some day i'll see, where i live it's rare to see anything that costs over 15,000 so maybe someday. there is about 3 or 4 cars around this town that are very fast (running at or under 10's) a chevelle, challenger, morris minor, 68 camaro. i know one guy that has a camaro thats into the high 12's. he beat a corvette at island drag strip with a 12.8

25thmustang

If you read I never claimed a GT motor I claimed a 4.6 which is what the original poster also claimed. This includes the DOHC cars, and believe it or not NA many of them have gone 11s with stock heads, and cams, and yes stock heads and cams into the 9s and 10s on boost! Gts are much harder to do, but plenty of NA guys running 11s. Look up Rich Starkie, Mike Bowen (hes 12.0s), Bill Putnam to name a few...

So you might want to rephrase that and say aint no way in a GT, and even then you'll probably be proven wrong. I have seen enough 12.1s and such on GTs with bolt ons, and Bullit intakes to know someone has or will run 11s wihtout ever lifting a head or taking a cam out!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

original poster said 2002 GT 4.6. LOL

Is that the same motor as in 95-98 GT 4.6's but with more power?
Cuz the guys i know are running a 99 GT and 98 GT. Pretty quick cars with LOTS of cash dropped into them.

I still find it hard to believe running 12.1 on stock head and cam motor. Unless seriously gutted out and sick gears/suspension. Or power adder. LOL

I know i a guy running low 12's high 11's soon with built 310 cubic inch 4.6 Gt motor. It is expensive as hell to get down that low. He has real deep gears, and is over 7000rpm's. He has alot of knowledge with those cars and told me its expensive to get where he is now.

I really didnt mean to say GT motor, but it came out that way. Freaky things do happen and some cars can run good. but come on man, 260 hp stock and your mean you can make 200hp on bolt ons to run elevens without heads/cam? Doesnt add up.

Even dohc motors are cobra motors right? Its hard to make power necessary to run 11's NA with that motor. 99+ cobra is supercharged and 94-98's are dogs. overrated 305 hp motor. runs high high 13's at best. LOL

stock computors cant handle the big cams necessary to run those times. Need a new ecm and tuner to run those radical grinds. The guy i know just spent over a grand for new electronic equiptment to run his cam. He has ported to hell heads, which arent considered "stock" anymore. LOL

25thmustang

This was what I was referring to, and he said nothing about a GT, but combined all 4.6 motors into one blanket and ignorant statement, so I set it straight...

The record for 1996-1998 NA stock motored Cobras right now I believe is an 11.60 unless someone went faster. Bob Cosby also went 11.62 on slicks with an untouched 99 Cobra (untouched motor), as well as many other guys you probably have never heard of. I already listed the fast GT owners that you might have heard of...

Who said it was cheap, its expensive to get ANY car into the 11s safely and consistently, and more expensive when working with newer technology, such as the SOHC and DOHC cars have (compared to pushrod cars).

Your adding wrong, in NO way do you need 460 hp to run 11s. I have driven a 280 rwhp car to a 12.1 and have seen a 290 rwhp car run 11.98. All in all 300-330 rwhp is all thats needed to comfortably run 11s, and if you dont agree, you need to go to the race track and talk to guys who know what they are doing.

The DOHC motors are Cobra motors, and they make the power necessary to go 11s, only a few mods and they are over the 300 rwhp I told you was needed. 99+ is NOT supercharged, only 03 and 04. The 305 hp ones (1996-1998) were high 13s to low 14s cars at 101-103 or so, and with just a simple gear swap and DRs low 13s high 12s. That was their downfall, call it a dog, but its as fast as the same year LT1, so maybe those were dogs as well???

Alright number one, stock cams for the Cobras, and the guys in the GTs are using off the shelf ones, not radical ones. Number two if you had any clue how a DOHC car worked, you would realize cam overlap can be changed without changing a cam. The fact that the intake and exhaust utalize different cams allow this to happen, as you can retard or advance one set and make more power...

Now sit the f**k down and shut the f**k up about stuff you know nothing about. keep quoting me and using LOL at the end of everything you type, its all ignorant BS that you heard somewhere and are trying to repeat!

CobraKiller

Brian pretty much just owned you dude now do as suggested and sit down and shut up.

stu

Everyone who is fighting in this thread should be on probabtion.

25thmustang

Probation is only for Import owners... JK!

1981z28

you just want some copy stu

25thmustang

Just to stir the pot some more and prove I get my numbers from reliable sources, here is one web sites list of 4.6s...

1999 - 2003 2V Naturally Aspirated 1/4 ET:
1 . KenB - 11.38 @ 119.00 ( 2000 GT 5 SPD )
2 . Steve Drier (Houston Performance) - 11.45 @ 115.00 ( 1995 GT AUTO - SVO HEADS/INTAKE, STROKED )
3 . starkie - 11.84 @ 113.12 ( 2001 GT 5 SPD )
4 . madmike - 11.92 @ 112.75 ( 2000 GT 5 SPD )
5 . Bill Putnam - 11.97 @ 113.20 ( 2000 GT 5 SPD )
6 . John Edwards - 11.99 @ 112.10 ( 1999 GT AUTO )
7 . Randy Stinchcomb - 11.99 @ 113.65 ( 1996 GT 5 SPD - SVO HEADS/INTAKE )

1999 - 2003 2V Power Adder 1/4 ET:
1 . Chris Crown - 8.47 @ 160.00 ( 2000 GT PG - TURBO )
2 . Tim Matherly - 9.61 @ 141.00 ( 2001 BULLITT - PROCHARGER )
3 . BLue 01 - 9.66 @ 138.00 ( 2V GT - NOVI 2000 )
4 . Jim Breese - 9.97 @ 135.74 ( 2V GT - NOVI 2000 )
5 . Joe Charles - 10.13 @ 131.00 ( FOX BODY 2V - BLOWER )
6 . Jimmy Vacarro - 10.32 @ 129.00 ( 1999 GT AODE - D1 )
7 . Mike Wesley - 10.36 @ 132.00 ( 2001 GT - NOVI 2000 )
8 . Joey Angrisani - 10.40 @ 132.00 ( 1996 GT AUTO - PI MTR, TURBO )
9 . Jay Mignolli - 10.40 @ 130.00 ( 1999 GT 5 SPD VERT - PAXTON )
10 . Ed Hicks - 10.50 @ 130.00 ( 2V - T TRIM, 8 RIB, SP )

4V Naturally Aspirated 1/4 ET:
1 . Micheal Tymensky (Modular Performance) - 9.36 @ 143.12 ( 2001 COBRA 4V 5.0 )
2 . Joe Hutchins - 9.96 @ 132.00 ( 1997 COBRA C4 - SHM )
3 . Shawn Johnson - 10.21 @ 133.90 ( 1997 T-BIRD 4V )
4 . Al Papitto (Boss 330) - 10.21 @ 133.86 ( 1997 COBRA 5 SPD 5.4 )
5 . Paul Svinicki - 10.61 @ 126.00 ( 2000 COBRA R 4V 5.0- FR500 PARTS )
6 . Chuck Lawrence - 10.88 @ 126.00 ( 2001 COBRA POWER GLIDE - FR500 PARTS )
7 . Steve Ferguson - 10.94 @ 124.00 ( 1999 COBRA C4 )
8 . John Gibson - 11.20 @ 116.00 ( 4V JERICO - ELECTROMOTIVE )
9 . Bob Cosby - 11.43 @ 117.00 ( 1999 COBRA 5 SPD )
10 . Robert Hindman - 11.55 @ 114.00 ( 2001 COBRA POWER GLIDE )
11 . JIMS SVT - 11.60 @ 115.48 ( 1998 COBRA 5 SPD )
12 . Dan Russo - 11.66 @ 114.28 ( 1998 COBRA 5 SPD )

1 . John Mihovetz (Accufab) - 6.83 @ 205.00 ( 2002 COUGAR TUBE CHASSIS, 4V 4.6, LENCO - TURBO )
2 . JR Granatelli - 7.27 @ 190.00 ( MUSTANG TUBE CHASSIS 5.4 4V LENCO - TURBO )
3 . John Mihovetz (Accufab) - 7.45 @ 187.00 ( 1996 MUSTANG TUBE CHASSIS, 4V 4.6, POWERGLIDE - TURBO )
4 . Randy Haywood - 7.97 @ 188.00 ( 4V 5.4 POWER GLIDE - TURBO )
5 . Tim Palmer - 8.30 @ 162.00 ( 1998 COBRA - TURBO )
6 . Dave King - 8.47 @ 160.85 ( 1997 COBRA POWER GLIDE - F2M )
7 . Bob Trinanes - 8.56 @ 170.00 ( COBRA - PAXTON, COG DRIVE, HOGAN INTAKE, SP )
8 . Aaron Archer - 8.57 @ 160.00 ( 2003 COBRA C4 - BLOWER )
9 . Joe Stewart - 8.70 @ 160.00 ( 1998 COBRA - PAXTON, COG DRIVE, HCI LOWER, SP )
10 . Reggie Burnette - 8.72 @ 159.00 ( 1997 COBRA - PAXTON, COG DRIVE, HCI LOWER, SP )
11 . John Mihovetz (Accufab) - 8.80 @ 156.00 ( 1993 MUSTANG COUPE, 4V 4.6, POWERGLIDE - BLOWER )
12 . Manny & Ozzie (HPP Racing) - 8.90 @ 155.00 ( 1999 COBRA GLIDE - TURBO )
13 . Mike Johnson - 9.00 @ ( 2000 GT - 4V MTR, F2M, COG DRIVE )

stu

Only 42 cars? Sounds pretty worthless to me.

25thmustang

Yeah they are junk motors with no potential (talking on a site mostly made up of 305s). Id send the whole list for all of them just from one site (not even a mod motor site, and the list is very old) but Im sure there are well over 200 and you dont want all that info!

25thmustang

As a matter of fact, I found an updated list... the 2V record is slightly better.

1999 - 2003 2V Naturally Aspirated 1/4 ET:
1 . Steve Drier (Houston Performance) - 11.24 @ 118.00 ( 1995 GT AUTO - SVO HEADS/INTAKE, STROKED )

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thanks for clearing that up dude
But this guy more than likely knows more about mustangs than you do.

I wasnt trying to get my panties up in a bunch over it. Thats why i used LOL and stuff like that.

geeeez, someone's up tight!!!

just going by what i heard by this guy who know alot about cars.

DONT you ever talk to me like that. Read what i said and its an opinon based on hearsay from someone else. I have no problem with you.

Dont take my posts to be real serious about argueing. Its just what i heard and i do doubt what mustangs can do. I havent seen it so there. I am ignorant. WE understand that? We cool?

Mustang guys come in here to educate us camaro guys. Thats what we need.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I suggest we all re-read the rules about blasting people and using asteriks to by-pass swear word censorship. Just present your facts and or experiences and move on.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

For the record, i understand alittle how they work. The guy i know has a cam with more lift than most big block chevys!! Its off the shelf but considered "radical" by the specs of the cam.

Anyone making alot of power at over 7000rpm has alot of duration and lift. you know that right?

Who ever said i was an expert? Again going by what this guy knows.


And i have heard of some of those people. just not all the facts about their cars. 11's on NA 4.6 is impressive but not great. LS1 are well past that and thats all i care about.

GM over ford for me any day of the week! LOL

And LT1 arent real impressive stock. Cobras of 95-97 arent real impressive either. I heard numerous stories of them be over rated and not putting out 305 hp as they say.

Thanks for the debate! We all good now! Later dude!!!

25thmustang

11s for the 2V, 9s for the 4V...

Again dont post if you dont know, and you dont know. You go by what you think is right, or by what some guy runs near you and think noones gonna catch it because its an Fbody site. If I were you I would just avoid any post where you talk about a Mustang. Who cares what you think is impressive, and we are all glad you like GM over Ford, but I am coming into this thread with facts and all your doing is spouting off opinions.

As far as anyone making power over 7000 grand, define that... The factory stock Cobras (stock cams) are revving right to 7000 and are still pulling. Thats why they love gears, they rev!

The 1996-1998 Cobras made advertised power. ONE year of the Cobra didnt, 1999 and they fixed it, and as a matter of fact thats what Bob Cosby ran his 11.62 in, a 1999 Cobra! He now runs 11.4s on Drag Radials, stock cams, stock heads on a .020 Al Pappitta built bottem end!

You right your not an expert, and you didnt fool anyone, so now go back to your opinion, as Im sure Ford really needs it, or GM for that matter!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I wasnt trying to fool anyone. Its rare to run past 12's with 4.6 motors cuz not many guys are doing it. I didnt believe stock head cam motor that stock has 260 hp is gonna run 11's without boost, spray, or head/cammed.

the fact that his peak power numbers are well above stock cuz of the cam. he is running up to and over 7000rpms. His shift points are that high

Anyway, stock cam and heads. how fast can they go? No power adders? That was my point in the beginning of this mess. All those guys you posted arent stock anymore. 11.60 for cobra, was that stock untouched motor? How about the GT? Thats what this post was about. Just gears/suspension made it fast? Thats impressive and hard to believe cuz gears and suspension cutting off nearly 2 seconds of stock time. That usually is extensive build for any other car. I guess ford just makes miracle motors/cars LOL

to run 11's it takes good power. My estimate of 460 was quick number off my head for street car running street tires full weight and running mid 11's. Probly alittle high but thats 380ish at wheels with 20% loss. 330 whp is just about 415hp. I know high elevens is possible with that on a 3400lb car but not on full dressed street car, cuz i havent seen it.

25thmustang

Yes thats the point, the 11.60 was on an untouched original, never been apart DOHC motor. Cosbys 11.62 was also. You keep adding to it, saying its hard, or it isnt the norm, or it isnt easy, or it isnt easy with a 3600 lb car. Just admitt, you claimed they couldnt do it, I claimed and proved they could, and do on a regular basis. It was the same thing years ago about 5.0s and running 12s with an untouched motor, and again, they do as well. These cars have more than just gears and tires, they have exhaust, pulleys, suspension etc, Ill never claim they dont, but the motors are original and they still manage the times.

Believe it or not its not just Ford, other companies cars can run amazing times, just not as many dedicated drag racing fans using third gens with TPIs, or LT1s! Mustangs have one of the biggest followings for drag racing of any late model car, and that cannot be disputed. With this in mind there will always be people out there pushing th bar running amazing times with little to no mods. If I were you instead of fightng me on this (as you keep doing) just sit back, read some facts and dont immediately doubt them, but try to find out more info about how it was done. You could learn a lot from a Mustang guy if you would just not have to post BS and sit back and listen!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

hey, i am hear to learn. thanks 25th. I just am in awe that those cars are as quick as they are. i am trying to see what you know, and its apparent you know your stuff. hope you didnt mind me milking you for info. LOL

I do doubt them based on what heard but apparently thats not the whole story.

I never understood why mustangs have had such a following, but who cares. good cars just too many of them everywhere! LOL

i was considering a 5.0 stang and still wouldnt mind picking one up as second car to mess with. LOL

anyway, its been good.