m8d2run

HEY STU GET A REAL CAR............. IT FIGURE A GUY DRIVING A INTEGRA WOULD SAY HP ISN'T EVERYTHING WHAT A JOKE

megaracerx

ppl like you should just be banned...


stu's right..hp isnt everything...maybe after your 11th b-day you'll relize that..

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

No need to bash. Shape up. Stu's car is probably much faster than yours.

megaracerx

:werd:

m8d2run

i DOUBT THAT VERY SERIOUSLY AND BESIDES HE INSULTED ME FIRST, I DON'T NEED TO GROW UP, I'M PROBABLY OLDER THAN YOU OR HIM. AND IF YOU GET PISSED OFF BECAUSE SOMEBODY CALLED YOU DUMBASS IN REFERRING TO A STATEMENT THEN YOU TRULLY NEED TO GROW UP YOUNG MAN.

megaracerx

i dont belive he was trying to insult you...but truley, hp isnt everything. weight, tranny, tires ect ect.... these all play a role in getting a car to go...and when he said grow..he wasnt refering t your age...


P.S : take the caps off...

m8d2run

Boy I tell you, you guys are pretty weak....I should be banned.
learn how to converse without letting your emotions get the best of you. We are talking about mustang vs chevy..
disagree with the statement don't attack me or I'll attack back

megaracerx

i wasnt attacking you, but if you wanna get dramatic...shifty will probabaly lock this later anyway...your the one who couldnt take hearing anything againt chevy...

truth be told a stock cobra would probabaly beat a stock thirdgen Z (not acounting for drivers)

so before you go calling any member a dumb ***...check youself...your the n00b remember?

m8d2run

depending on how your racing, hp isn't that important. but from stop light to stop light or 1/4 as in the video, you better bring some hp or your going to get your but handed to you.
and seriously if you pull up next to someone and they wanna got do you honestly think they care if you holler out hp isn't everything???????

megaracerx

i never said hp isnt important, because it is..but not everything...hell the car isnt everything..

and BTW i didnt say i was gonna hollar "hp isnt everything"...that would be retarded.

m8d2run

noob only on this board, and yes stock for stock the cobra would win but as in my case I pulled on him on the freeway......
it doesn't bother me if someone knocks a chevy.......who cares
I'm stating my opinion as is everyone else on this board.
like i said get back to the topic and get off me.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Someone who is older than us surely should have a more mature attitude than this. Maybe I am wrong. We just ask that everyone dissagrees repsectfully. Lets stay back on topic.

megaracerx

sounds good to me...no hard feelings

m8d2run

hard feelings not at all, love to talk and debate it just cracks me up when people holler hp isn't everything.....
the video was matching a cobra against a z28. HP matters a great deal as well as driver reaction traction gearing suspension
etc........but bring hp and no excuses

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Man, some good action here!

You all are forgetting what makes TPI great....


TORQUE!!
From a stoplight, thats the stuff you want to bring!! Get the car moving, and rocket out of first gear!! Surprised no one mentioned that. HP sells, but torque wins races. Write that down! LOL Behold the power of Torque.

If indeed it was a cobra, chances are that Camaro was mildly modded. Cuz cobras are close to high 13 second cars. That L98 camaro, if it was and L98, would only need decent gears, full exhaust, and CAI to hang with that stang. But stang should get him in the long run.

megaracerx

forgot about torque...

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You can't have torque without HP. They go hand in hand. When you increase one, the other increases as well. They key is to make the most of both over the largest possible power curve.

megaracerx

true true...but it still goes to show hp isnt everything...

ljnowell

Wow, is this site bookmarked on EVERY high school computer? Dont knock the new cobra just cause its fast. Who cares if you dont like it? Its still fast. And in the grown up world, like stu said, people dont pay 30K for a car, and then void the warranty by installing a SuperCharger. Oh yeah, if the "crustang" is so bad and your camaro idea is so good, you should do that. Of course, I guess it would be hard to get a new camaro, since they quit making them. Notice they didnt quit making "crustangs."

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

True, but some designs of intakes produce more torque at similar horsepower levels.

TPI producing 300hp will make over 400lbft of torque. Probly closer to 500lbft. But that cobra pushing 305 is only making 300 lb feet or so. Thats a big difference and shows you can make more torque with same or less hp. Variance is there depending on intake design and cam profiles.

I guess the cubes add up to make torque, but even similar motors with different intake designs will make different hp/torque numbers.

25thmustang

megaracerx, Hp and Tq dont always win races either. My car makes 270 hp, and 315 tq, but I can tell you it has put a hurting on cars with a bunch more power. Too many people focus on the peak numbers, not the actual curve of power, which actually matters more...

And you take a $29,000 Camaro, Ill take my $3500 car, add only $20,000 to it, run 9s, and then take my GF out for a hell of a night! That is my biggest pet pieve, you cannot compare costs of two cars equally, especially used to new, never going to be equal!

Also Im sure Stus car is faster, it might be an Integra, but I do believe he has close to, if not more power than me! Cant knock a guy for having a fast car no matter what brand it is!

Funn yhr guy calling them crustangs and making fun of them conviniently doesnt have any info about his car in a sig... Im sure it runs mid 11s and puts a hurting on most "M"ustangs out there!!!

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

What you see here is the power curve differences between a DOHC motor and a CIB motor. The same math applies though. i will dig up an example.

pasky

Actually....plenty of people do that. Warranties do not get void from installing a mod. I believe the dealer will not service the actual modification or anything pertaining to it (intake cracks or something). There was a law passed just for this reason. You think they will null my warranty if I throw headers on a car? Pfffft.

ljnowell

Headers no, A supercharger YES! And if you doubt that ask the dealer in your town, I have a friend that DID! He was specifically told, and in the fine print shown, where it said that it would void the drivetrain warranty to install a super charger. PFFFFFFFTTTT. Have you asked a dealer, or are you talking out of your ***? Bet i can guess which one. If they void the warranty on your drivetrain, whats that leave you with? Not many people do it.

pasky

I can knock a guy for that.

You drive a mustang, nya nya nya.

J/K

You gotta be one of the most civil and intelligent guys on the board (despite the whole mustang thing ). Your absolutely right, the power curve is far more important than peak horse power. A lot of people forget the most important mod when going to a race also....the drive mod.

As far as stu goes, I think the guy is too ignorant to be taken seriously. He blows his lid and opens his mouth without thinking only to apologize later for it.

pasky

You know, im starting to realize you are the most childish user on this board. It is indeed you who speaks from his corn hole:

http://www.duramaximizer.com/magnuson_moss.htm

So why don't you go explain to your friend how he was coined out of his warranty because he dealt with a shady dealer.

ljnowell

He wasnt coined out of his warranty, he didnt buy the vehicle because of it.

If you want to take a chance because of what you read at the link that you posted, thats your choice, go ahead. I havent seen a manufacturer yet that will warranty an engine when a customer installs a super charger.

And you are going to call me childish? With your little pfft posts, and calling people ignorant? People who live in glass houses........

pasky

*shrug*

ljnowell

*shrug* BTW

I read that link, it has nothing to do with the fine print.

*shrug*

pasky

Im staying calm, your the one who resorts to childish name calling and ignorance of thinking its your way or the highway and if not the other guy must definately be a (insert childish name here). Thats the law buddy, I can't lie about the law. I can link you to the lawyer definition if you didn't like the laymans terms if that will soothe your ignorance.

pasky

Another link from the FTC's website:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...#Magnuson-Moss

Educate yourself:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm

I understand you'll never admit your wrong and thats okay, I already know im the better man. I've tried speaking with you in a civil manner but it seems you just like to cause trouble.

ljnowell

Point out where I called you a name, and i will give a formal apology right here, right now. Go ahead. I am not getting mad, I know the truth. More talk of ignorance on your part, though. Its OK, I dont mind what you post. The law does not stipulate anything, ANYTHING, about the fine print stating that if you install devices such as a supercharger it will void your warranty. The law does say that this has to be disclosed in the paperwork. Which is exactly where it was. I dont seem to follow your train of thought. Of course they cant void your warranty without putting it in writing prior to the sale, or specifying it prior to the sale. I dont see where any of what you posted contradicts this.

The Law says the warranty must be clearly defined and obeyed. It was. That was part of the warranty. If you cant post anything relevant to that argument, then quit posting on this topic.

pasky

Creating a strawman are we? I was quite on the topic of the argument, but thats okay i'll stop, I think your last post pretty much sums it up and I won't ruin the thread for the topic poster.

:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

ljnowell

Stroke your ego some more, pasky

You havent posted any proof of anything. You posted pages stating a manufacturer must disclose all portions of a warranty and abide by it. No one has argued that. The point is, installation of a supercharger on a new car will void the warranty. Its stated prior to sale, so no law is broken.

after all, pasky,

I Understand that you'll never admit your wrong and thats okay, I already know I'm the better man. I've tried speaking with you in a civil manner but it seems you just like to cause trouble

ljnowell

You didnt sum up anything, you lost an argument.

Its like arguing with John Kerry, no matter what you win!

edit: I think it summed it up too, read the fine print, instead of listening to people on the internet. How did that fuel door install go anyway?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

My close buddy has an new 02 SS. He cannot install headers or it will void his warrenty. He has it in writting. He can do suspension however so he went that route for the next few years instead. LS1 guys will sometimes swap to an LS6 cam so that they can get a little power boost without the dealer detecting any changes to the engine. When they hook the sanner and such to the car the readouts are basically the same between the cams. Anything more radical and their hopes of having the car fixed on the generals tab can be thrown out the window. Lets not fight. I am sure every dealer is different in some areas.

pasky

Strawman

1. front man, front, figurehead, nominal head, straw man, strawman -- (a person used as a cover for some questionable activity)
2. straw man, strawman -- (a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted)

No sir, I did not lose, I refuse to argue with someone who will bring up pointless arguments in an attempt to feel he is not foolish. No one cares what you think about Kerry and yes it is you who brings him up in every argument you have. Does he have any relevence? No none at all at this site. So why do you bring him up and accuse me of getting off the argument? I showed you factual evidence of warranty laws that dealerships must abide by. You showed me??? A friends story .

If it makes you feel better thinking you won this "argument" if that is what you call this non-sensual rambling coming from your end, sure, take the whole cake.

:lala: :lala:

pasky

Its not so much the dealers, it is the law. Of course the dealers will do their best to void your warranty but if you feel your are being defrauded report it. I stated there is a law that protects you from this, not that there aren't shady dealers. If your power seats go bad they cannot void your warranty unless they can prove the headers caused it. Thats the law. Now whether you allow it to be enforced or whether it is, is a different story.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I know for a fact that SLP or some company leased a 02 camaro SS and modded the hell out of it. It ran 11's and they had a C5R block in it. Nothing remained stock anymore, so what do they do when the lease is up? LMAO Buy it I guess, but i am sure they would love to take the car back. LOL

Anyway, warranties as i understood dealt with stock components and a supercharger would add LOTS OF STRESS to the drivetrain. That would make sense not to cover that cuz its not originally equipted. Car wasnt made for it so thats why they shouldnt cover it under the warranty.

One kid i know had a celica and modded it and voided the warranty on his motor.


Anyway again, the DOHC and conventional GM pushrod V8's have differences and cant be compared but think about this.
350 L98 TPI stock is about 245hp 345 torque.
Add a miniram intake ONLY and you get like 270hp and maybe around same torque if not less like 325lb feet torque.
Although the curve is different, still, power is made and torque output decreases or stays the same. so its possible to have many different power numbers given a motor with different setups. Add a 4x4 cam to TPI and look out torque!! Turbo cars can make sick torque while maintaining low hp.

hot rod did a story i think of two chevelles turbocharged. one produced 700lb feet torque!! but a mere 350hp. Wow

stu

Toyota warranties their supercharger, but only if it's the TRD one and the dealer (or other authorized dealer of the charger) installs it.

I've also heard all kinds of stories about people no receiving service at dealerships simply from having an open air element filter. I think it's crap, but that's what one Cobra owner told me, not on-line either, it was face to face at the track. That doesn't mean he knew what he was talking about though.

About me appologizing, I have noticed that I do that, and there are two reasons.
1) I'm used to boards where that is the norm. Depending on how long you've been frequenting web boards, you may or may not know this, but I'll tell you anyway. Someone flaming me on another board, and someone just being confused about something I said and adding an exclimation point to the end looks exactly the same in text. People lose the ability to express their intentions through body lanuguage and vocal tones on the internet, so it all looks the same.

2) On other boards, it doesn't matter what you say (to an extent) but here, people get offended easier, and the rules are a little stricter, so sometimes an appology is in order. Otherwise, I wouldn't care. Ambiguity allows me to have some people think that I'm an *** without me losing any sleep over it. Sorry.


Just kidding, I'm not.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

When you increase the HP the torque will increase as well. However, it will peak before the HP peak and will drop off from there as HP climbs. This is where you are getting confused. If you had an L98 that made 245 hp at 4400 rpm you would have 293 lb ft of torau at that RPM point. Now if you added parts or whatever and your motor now made 270 at 4400 rpm than you would have 322lb ft at that point in the curve. Every point on an IC engine curve will follow this formula. hp= (tq)*(rpm)/5252. Since hp is basically the rate of torque it has to change as HP does. The RPM points shift with different combos and such but the two are hand in hand mathmatically.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thanks for the clarification and i understand how torque and hp equall at 5250 rpms based on that equation. I was talkin bout peak numbers which really dont mean as much as curve numbers. But you understand what i was saying about the different combos making different power numbers? I probly just stated it wrong or unclear.

stu

Peak numbers manipulate the curve numbers though. There are a lot of muscle car guys over on H-T who were just talking about this. They were all saying that they'd much rather have 300 ft/lbs of torque for the whole power band (with a higher redline and higher peak power) than 400 ft/lbs of torque for only 200rpm. I think they have a point, what good is huge torque if you can only use it for like 1-2 seconds? These were Camaro guys as well.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You are correct. The power band with the most area under the curve will be the fastest.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

provided weights are equal and gears

m8d2run

i was responding to the comment hp isn't everything. torque and hp go hand in hand u can make gobs of torque like tpi's do but with only 245 hp and the peak being a very low 4400 rpms, the torque will get u out the hole but u need that hp to keep that mass moving... and IRT the crustang stuff thats all talk that shouldn't be taken seriously, this stuff has been going on for a long time thats why its a MUSCLE CAR WAR
i like mustangs also but i drive a chevy and proud of it and i bash the other for fun. i bash imports, and i own a 03 jetta vr6, and a 01 yukon XL....its all fun and games lighten up and have fun:lala:

stu

I said that hp wasn't everything beause I could walk cars with more power than me (before my motor stopping playing my game). It's because my car only weighs 2,600lbs with me in it though.

ljnowell

C'mon now shifty, you dont agree with pasky, that makes you childish and ignorant. Its funny really, that all of the links posted, none of them have anything to do with GM or Ford warranties. Of course the government has laws forcing companies to adhere to the warranties offered. But when the warranties offered stipulate something, the government cant do anything about it.

THEGENERAL

hey im not picking up the tab for anyone lets get that strait right now..

LMAO

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

awww, i was hoping you would buy me my 383 shortblock that i want! LOL Help a fellow thirdgenner out! LOL