1BADDAM

They advertised 0-60 in magazine article adds

http://www.89tta.com/tta_ad_1.jpg


In the sales brochure. Under a pic of the turbo.

" This Garrett T3 turbo can send the boost guage up to
16.5 lbs., which can send the 20th T/A down the 1/4 mile
in 13.50 sec. or less."

bigals87z28

JUST LOOK AT THE DAM MPH!!! Holy crap, they rean a 16.0 at 88mph in the 5spd formy!! Look at the MPH, that will tell you a crap load more then the 1/4 mile time. 88mph is about 15.2-14.9. The mags suck at driving the cars. Give the car to hot rod or phr or a real enthusiasts mag and im sure you will see that e/t drop.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I think it would definatley be a drivers race. Well depending on which Firehawk we are talking about. The Firehawks are very different from one car to the next.

If we are talking about the regular Firehawk I might have to give that to the TTA. But if your talking about the competetion models I would say they would have the edge.

On this forum we have memebers with both cars. So someone should setup this contest and film it.

Due to the rarity of either car it would be easy enough to find a TTA that is stock and a Firehawk that is stock. Or at least close anyway.

1987 GN

This would be a pretty cool race! I would love to buy a thirdgen firehawk. I have a 1989 TTA with 2,575 original miles. Car is 100% stock. I would do the race at a 1/4 mile track, not on the street, if someone had a firehawk to run against it. It is probably a lot easier to find a low mile stock TTA than a firehawk though, but I thought I would offer anyway. Regardless of who wins it would be fun to participate and watch.

Ian_F

I dont know about 14.9. I ran a 14.8 at 94 mph.

bigals87z28

well, et's will vary, but mph will tell the true story. If i ran a 15.4 at 114mph... That would mean i either have a 500hp engine and im spinnging in all gears getting no traction, or i suck at driving.. or both. 14.8 at 94 is about a mid 14's which is about where you are Ian. And what is the deal with the camaro? gunna sell it? i know i asked you before, but forgot...sorry.

89Formula3

Firehawk vs TTA now that would be a war. I would have to say the Firehawk takes it.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Wow....a 3+ year old thread bump. Good job.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

okay now take it to a road course, they clocked a TTA at 176 mph, can a firehawk do that? what about firefox? similar to the firehawk plus the corvette IRS.

TTA 1387

Old thread brought back to life...

I'd still say a TTA would have the edge. Its just too easy to launch those cars. Easiest 3rd or 4th gen F-Body to launch because of the relocated torque arm. Makes all the difference

Bs88ta

turbo t/a

TPI

I laughed for a few minutes when I noticed this..
At first I didnt believe it, ..rubbed my eyes &
refreshed the page!

rockit

iTrader: (3)

wait how was the torque arm relocated?

TTA 1387

Crossmember. It wasn't attached to the trans. Basically like all the aftermarket torque arms are attached now.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

What he said

avro206

Firehawk by a very small margin

rockit

iTrader: (3)

so if you have a poly trans mount and poly tq arm mount would that be close to the re located way?

TTA 1387

No.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

hmmm okay, what kind of difference does this make? and how come people don't try fab these or swap them in? i know parts are limited but in five years here(under varying names) i've never seen this mentioned.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Most of your aftermarket pieces move the torque arm mount to the crossmember unless you get a cheapy verson.

avro206

That TTA was obviously not stock

TTA 1387

Beg to differ. Indy clocked a stock TTA at 170+ coming down the straight. That is why it didn't need any mods for the race. It could easily pace the race as a stocker.

There was no limiter on the TTA. And it was the first F-Body to come with ZR Gatorbacks.

avro206

well I'll beg to differ too...but I doubt we'll agree

...I seriously doubt pace cars are out at 170mph speeds and 300hp (isn't that pretty close to what the engines really made?? That only only goes so far.

In other words not enough power to do 170mph (let alone 176mph). Ever single road test of the TTA (yes I have them all) give it 155-162 ish. At super high speeds you have to add a fair amount of power to over come the expodetial increase in drag. but some how--magically, that TTA you spoke of did an amazing 15+mph over stock

1BADDAM

Rumor mill was..........lowest of 10 pulled from the assebly line made 301 at the flywheel.

Proof that it was not a rumor .....??



Scott Kelly -tech rep. at PAS stated the car did 171.xx mph during testing.

Ringer.....maybe.....I know TTA 1387, fly89gta, or myself can ring another 30 horses out of a stocker with just a paperclip and a crescent wrench. I would imagine the guy who tuned every TTA that left the assebly line back in 89might have a trick or two.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Some Related Information For Ya....

TTA 1387

Here's also some more info

avro206

and the Buick enginineer at Motor Trends High Speed shoot out in 89 at the TRC was shocked that the car went 162mph--possibly do to a cool morning run was the reason he attirbuted to it.

So who is right? Liike I said--ever other single top speed test was nearly 15mph slower then you saying.

We have to settle this! Lets go halvers on a radar gun and meet up halfway

I am calling in on that Firehawk 175mph top spped too---of all the mags listed only Car and Driver tests for top speed on everycar--M/T does it sometimes.

I have all those tests but they are packed away for my move

rockit

iTrader: (3)

as someone else stated, tta/gnx motors are easily cranked up about 10 percent in hp, now that makes a big difference in a gran national, but do it to the lighter(much lighter) trans am, and you get a bigger difference, specially with the best aerodynamics pontiac had at that point.

in addition, the tta's got the gnx intercooler, different heads, alot of stuff. is it so hard to believe that 20 hp or so could be pulled by increasing the boost? Beyond that, they were clocked on a racetrack, where a test driver may be much more comfortable pushing the car for that last mph.

Define stock my friend, i dunno what happened to that very fast pace car, but there are numerous mods that can be done while still being considered stock, also don't you think the guys building THAT tta, would make sure the tune was spot on? i mean if something happened while pacing, that would be a huge embarresment to pontiac, i find it believable, especially on a turbo motor of decent cubic inches, that they could pull 15 mph more out of that car over the test mags

1BADDAM

Motor Trends hight speed shootout was done in Arizona - cool morning air could have been 80* ? Corvette Fever tested the TTA vs the Vette, got it to go 161 mph. 171 minus 161 or 162 = 15 ???

When they unloaded the festival TTA's off the vehicle carrier at Indy there was snow on the ground, so assuming it was very cold. Why would it by out of the question the car could hit that speed in ideal conditions - since when you drop inlet air temps 10* you gain roughly 2% HP

Irrespective - TTA's are considered the fastest GM produced F-body because the LS1 cars have an 162 mph elec. limiter and the 91-2 Firehawks are really tuner cars, as they did not have a factory GM warranty.

avro206

gee fine! It was Arizona--maybe it was the other year at the TRC....like I said, my magazines are packed away.

As fore the math--I am hearing both 171 or 176. As for the temps making a car faster--sure but are you even considering the areodynamics at those speeds?

For example the wind resistance at 60mph cmpared to 120mph is not twice as much.....it's 4 TIMES AS MUCH!

And i don't even know what 170mph is compared to that--suffice to say much, much worse.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ How accurate is this information (in reference to production), because I remember this guy Paul that I know mentioning that there were two convertible TTA models available as well. Click Here, and here...

PETE

iTrader: (1)

To my knowledge there was only one conv. made exclusively for the president of pontiac motor division. Others have been created but not from PAS. Someone else might be able to help with this.

The bottom line is that the Firehawk was tweaked from the get go! If you were to use the factory chip that the TTA came with, the performance may be close.

Using the stock chip nowadays would most likely lead to damage of the engine.

That being said a completely stock TTA(down to the air filter) with a modern day chip(keep in mind, a chip change will not change the amount of boost thus not giving the TTA any advantage) will stomp a hole in a Firewhawks *** the size of the Holland Tunnel.

You cannot compare a tweaked 8 cylinder to a turbo car(being that tuning for a turbo was in its infancy at the time) in any way.

The value of a turbo car unlike a n/a car is that performance is a screw turn away.

There is no way in h.e.l.l. even with 4.11's, a k&n, afpr, drag radials and the most up to date chip will a firehawk go low 12's. Maybe the all aluminum race motor but even then the Firehawk will play catch up. As with any turbo Buick even the stock turbo can put out more tourqe this side of most hearty big blocks.

The original claim was that the 231 cubic engine acted like a 496 under 16.5 psi. Turn it up to 22 psi and your talking gobs of power. It's just a matter of getting it to the ground.

The Firehawks are nice, but should not be compared performance wise with the TTA!

The fastest Trans Am to date is the only to be offered with a V6....

I have a mostly stock TTA to test against

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ You are giving way too much credit to the TTA, and are way too quick to assume that the average L98 engine w/it's stock TPI system, let alone a T-Ram version that SLP gave the "anything goes" approach in reference to ordering, couldn't touch the low to mid 12's. Yes, up the boost on a TTA and it's an entirely different story in relation to it's performance potential. But, you do realize what a mere 15 psi literally does to a 231 cubic inch engine, in comparison with a naturally aspirated 350, right....?

I seriously doubt that. If your going to change the VE parameters with a custom, and more modern day Turbo Tweak chip for the TTA, then the same modern day tuning should be allowed for a fully opted out Firehawk. Incidently, here's my buddies old L98 that was shot a few years ago with a naturally aspirated L98 engine, Click Here. Then, when you explore camshafts, and better suspensions you get, Click Here. Yes, it is a C4, but the principle of the argument is there, and the Firehawk has major advantages over this Corvette in respect to what you could have ordered it with from the factory, Click Here.

Honestly don't know anyone with a Firehawk that is willing to put it on the track for some abuse. However, I do know plenty of people who are running the very same, naturally aspirated L98 engines though, who will take that challenge, and hand that TTA of your's it's A-SS....

Lemme know when your ready, Pete!

PETE

iTrader: (1)

If you could find a t-ram equipped l98 with the cam they offered sure I'm in.I'm all for it!

Let me know

I'll have to swap out the turbo for a stocker, someone should have one lying around.......

I still think it'll play catchup though.

I'm not great on the tree though, would have to give the care to Paul or Shawn to peg the tree..........


Don't get me wrong I believe in the TPI and would love to do a turbo version of one in the future.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ I honestly wish I could find the T-Ram intake alone for my own '91 Formula, let alone a driver willing to put His/Her stock Firehawk to the test. There's a guy here in Old Bridge who has one, but all he does is rub it with a damn diaper all day long, as well as refusing to part with it. I sure as heck would love to see that race; 89-TTA (stock turbo) w/modern day chip vs '92 Firehawk (fully opted out from the factory), w/modern day tuning....

... will never happen though.

TTA 1387

Info came from PAS. There were a total of 3 convertibles made. They were all done after the TTA was made since it wasn't an option on the Firebird. ASC did the conversion.

CutchZ

Resurrected from the dead because I just picked up a TTA.........TTA wins IMO. But I absolutely loved the Firehawks.